Having a rough time at church

[Jane_Doe]

Hi ThirdHour family.  I need some hugs.

Sorry I've been so quiet lately-- life has been very busy lately.  And more than busy, draining.  There is a lot of good things-- life is factually really good.  My miracle baby boy is amazing, and big girl is learning so many things and growing into an expanding world with incredible flair.  Husband is always the most loving rock. 

On the other hand, work is miserable.  Ultimately this is a dead-end job that is downright taking advantage of me, demanding more and more miracles performed with impossible deadlines.  It makes me utterly miserable-- feeling constantly behind & not good enough, despite me constantly delivering miracles.  I now how much of my self worth & sense of accomplishment I (erroneously) put into my work.  I leave every day exhausted to the bone & wanting to cry.  Encanto's Louisa and I have much in common.

I try to focus on the good things-- that my most important legacy is my family, not work.  Try to leave work pains at work.  Try occasionally to muster the emotional energy & time to do more job applications.  Remember where my true value lies.   Try to remember that I'm a great mom.   Remember the importance of the dat of rest.  Remember Christ & "peace be still".  Trying to stop obsessively thinking I need to constantly be/do/more.    Though... I am so tired and often fail.  Example, I was up for three hours in the middle the night just sobbing & feeling like trash.  

Church lately is NOT helping.  Rather it's actively hurting -- so many lessons on "we need be more productive & make more goals!  Everyone get into groups & declare what new goal you will do this week, and then the group leader will text you tracking your progress.  Remember if you didn't get things done, it's because you need to re-prioritize your life!  Remember this quote from 'Atomic Habits'...."   Over and over again.   And it totally doesn't help that my boss & others are in ward/stake leadership positions.  

I....this is the opposite of what I need spiritually.  I need shelter from the storm & rest, not lectures on doing more.  I....honestly I'm writing this in tears, having had to shut off Stake Conference after more of the same.  I'm just.... so tired.  

Thank you for listening to my story.

[LDSGator]

9 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Hi ThirdHour family.  I need some hugs.

Sorry I've been so quiet lately-- life has been very busy lately.  And more than busy, draining.  There is a lot of good things-- life is factually really good.  My miracle baby boy is amazing, and big girl is learning so many things and growing into an expanding world with incredible flair.  Husband is always the most loving rock. 

On the other hand, work is miserable.  Ultimately this is a dead-end job that is downright taking advantage of me, demanding more and more miracles performed with impossible deadlines.  It makes me utterly miserable-- feeling constantly behind & not good enough, despite me constantly delivering miracles.  I now how much of my self worth & sense of accomplishment I (erroneously) put into my work.  I leave every day exhausted to the bone & wanting to cry.  Encanto's Louisa and I have much in common.

I try to focus on the good things-- that my most important legacy is my family, not work.  Try to leave work pains at work.  Try occasionally to muster the emotional energy & time to do more job applications.  Remember where my true value lies.   Try to remember that I'm a great mom.   Remember the importance of the dat of rest.  Remember Christ & "peace be still".  Trying to stop obsessively thinking I need to constantly be/do/more.    Though... I am so tired and often fail.  Example, I was up for three hours in the middle the night just sobbing & feeling like trash.  

Church lately is NOT helping.  Rather it's actively hurting -- so many lessons on "we need be more productive & make more goals!  Everyone get into groups & declare what new goal you will do this week, and then the group leader will text you tracking your progress.  Remember if you didn't get things done, it's because you need to re-prioritize your life!  Remember this quote from 'Atomic Habits'...."   Over and over again.   And it totally doesn't help that my boss & others are in ward/stake leadership positions.  

I....this is the opposite of what I need spiritually.  I need shelter from the storm & rest, not lectures on doing more.  I....honestly I'm writing this in tears, having had to shut off Stake Conference after more of the same.  I'm just.... so tired.  

Thank you for listening to my story.

@Jane_Doe, I can offer you nothing but prayers and virtual hugs. I am so sorry things are rocky right now. Stay strong my friend you are in my prayers. 

[scottyg]

My neighbor who is a counselor in the Stake Presidency had the same type of job situation that you describe. He was visibly worn down. About 6-7 weeks ago he abruptly quit his job, and just started working again last week. The first Sunday I saw him after he quit I noticed that something was different about him...and realized that he was smiling. I hadn't seen him happy in who knows how long, and he looked like a completely new person, even though he was unemployed.

I don't know specific details other than what you have shared, but rather than find shelter from the storm, perhaps you need to move yourself somewhere where no storm is present for a time. My last job change 5 years ago came with a pay cut, but improved my life in every other way by leaps and bounds.

The Lord is aware of you and your situation, and will reach out from time to time to bouy you up as you wait upon Him.

[Grunt]

2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Hi ThirdHour family.  I need some hugs.

Sorry I've been so quiet lately-- life has been very busy lately.  And more than busy, draining.  There is a lot of good things-- life is factually really good.  My miracle baby boy is amazing, and big girl is learning so many things and growing into an expanding world with incredible flair.  Husband is always the most loving rock. 

On the other hand, work is miserable.  Ultimately this is a dead-end job that is downright taking advantage of me, demanding more and more miracles performed with impossible deadlines.  It makes me utterly miserable-- feeling constantly behind & not good enough, despite me constantly delivering miracles.  I now how much of my self worth & sense of accomplishment I (erroneously) put into my work.  I leave every day exhausted to the bone & wanting to cry.  Encanto's Louisa and I have much in common.

I try to focus on the good things-- that my most important legacy is my family, not work.  Try to leave work pains at work.  Try occasionally to muster the emotional energy & time to do more job applications.  Remember where my true value lies.   Try to remember that I'm a great mom.   Remember the importance of the dat of rest.  Remember Christ & "peace be still".  Trying to stop obsessively thinking I need to constantly be/do/more.    Though... I am so tired and often fail.  Example, I was up for three hours in the middle the night just sobbing & feeling like trash.  

Church lately is NOT helping.  Rather it's actively hurting -- so many lessons on "we need be more productive & make more goals!  Everyone get into groups & declare what new goal you will do this week, and then the group leader will text you tracking your progress.  Remember if you didn't get things done, it's because you need to re-prioritize your life!  Remember this quote from 'Atomic Habits'...."   Over and over again.   And it totally doesn't help that my boss & others are in ward/stake leadership positions.  

I....this is the opposite of what I need spiritually.  I need shelter from the storm & rest, not lectures on doing more.  I....honestly I'm writing this in tears, having had to shut off Stake Conference after more of the same.  I'm just.... so tired.  

Thank you for listening to my story.

I'm so, so sorry.   You're awesome and I've missed your presence.   I've recently decided to reprioritize my focus from work to Church and family.   Work has crushed my soul lately, and I've come to the realization that what I've based my identity on doesn't really matter at all.

Goals are important, and accountability is helpful.  That said, I really believe when we set goals for ourselves, they are often lofty and unrealistic.   I set goals for myself based on where I'm at in life.  A few months ago my goals were specific times spent reading scripture, praying, and feeding my soul with good content.  Know what they are this month?  Get out of bed and make it until noon before texting my wife to complain about work.  That's my primary goal.  Not whining until noon.   It's worked, too.   That activity has caused me to re-examine my priorities and shift my focus.

So, be honest with your goals, but still have them.  If your goals make things worse in your life, they aren't good goals.   Maybe your goal for your group leader will be "not looking at the group leaders texts until tomorrow".   Being more productive, and goals, are different things for different people, change with what's going on in our life, and are meant to lift us up and make us better, not tear us down.  Don't let the expectations of others make you set goals that don't match what you need in life.  Goals can be selfish.

[Jane_Doe]

2 hours ago, LDSGator said:

@Jane_Doe, I can offer you nothing but prayers and virtual hugs. I am so sorry things are rocky right now. Stay strong my friend you are in my prayers. 

Thank you.

[Jane_Doe]

19 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I'm so, so sorry.   You're awesome and I've missed your presence.   I've recently decided to reprioritize my focus from work to Church and family.   Work has crushed my soul lately, and I've come to the realization that what I've based my identity on doesn't really matter at all.

Goals are important, and accountability is helpful.  That said, I really believe when we set goals for ourselves, they are often lofty and unrealistic.   I set goals for myself based on where I'm at in life.  A few months ago my goals were specific times spent reading scripture, praying, and feeding my soul with good content.  Know what they are this month?  Get out of bed and make it until noon before texting my wife to complain about work.  That's my primary goal.  Not whining until noon.   It's worked, too.   That activity has caused me to re-examine my priorities and shift my focus.

So, be honest with your goals, but still have them.  If your goals make things worse in your life, they aren't good goals.   Maybe your goal for your group leader will be "not looking at the group leaders texts until tomorrow".   Being more productive, and goals, are different things for different people, change with what's going on in our life, and are meant to lift us up and make us better, not tear us down.  Don't let the expectations of others make you set goals that don't match what you need in life.  Goals can be selfish.

@Grunt you and your "don't whine until noon" goal made me both laugh & happy cry.  Thank you, this really resonated.  

[Jane_Doe]

2 hours ago, scottyg said:

My neighbor who is a counselor in the Stake Presidency had the same type of job situation that you describe. He was visibly worn down. About 6-7 weeks ago he abruptly quit his job, and just started working again last week. The first Sunday I saw him after he quit I noticed that something was different about him...and realized that he was smiling. I hadn't seen him happy in who knows how long, and he looked like a completely new person, even though he was unemployed.

I don't know specific details other than what you have shared, but rather than find shelter from the storm, perhaps you need to move yourself somewhere where no storm is present for a time. My last job change 5 years ago came with a pay cut, but improved my life in every other way by leaps and bounds.

The Lord is aware of you and your situation, and will reach out from time to time to bouy you up as you wait upon Him.

A new job really would make things so much better.  Unfortunately, the time & energy to apply is really in short supply.  Mostly energy actually.

[Grunt]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

A new job really would make things so much better.  Unfortunately, the time & energy to apply is really in short supply.  Mostly energy actually.

Pray, ponder, and be open to possibilities.  Sometimes they present themselves unexpectedly.   I'm always here if you need to talk.

[Manners Matter]

Just wanted to chime in and say that I'm sorry things are challenging right now. {hugs}

[mikbone]

6 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

On the other hand, work is miserable.  Ultimately this is a dead-end job that is downright taking advantage of me, demanding more and more miracles performed with impossible deadlines.  It makes me utterly miserable-- feeling constantly behind & not good enough, despite me constantly delivering miracles.  I now how much of my self worth & sense of accomplishment I (erroneously) put into my work.  I leave every day exhausted to the bone & wanting to cry.

 

6 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

And it totally doesn't help that my boss & others are in ward/stake leadership positions.  

umm, Id quit.  

Jesus loves you.  

I have noticed a trend in the church during my lifetime of goal setting, accountability, building relationships of trust, number acquisition... that all seem to come out of a business self-help book.  It drives me crazy.  Jesus Christ doesn't strike me as a CEO, trying to justify his job/salary to a board of directors.  

Do what is right for your family.  Have faith.  Sometimes you have to take a leap without a safety net. 

[Jane_Doe]

29 minutes ago, mikbone said:

 

umm, Id quit.  

Jesus loves you.  

I have noticed a trend in the church during my lifetime of goal setting, accountability, building relationships of trust, number acquisition... that all seem to come out of a business self-help book.  It drives me crazy.  Jesus Christ doesn't strike me as a CEO, trying to justify his job/salary to a board of directors.  

Do what is right for your family.  Have faith.  Sometimes you have to take a leap without a safety net. 

Oh my ward routinely quotes several business self help books from the pulpit. And my boss quotes Joseph Smith at department meetings- by happenstance the 5 people in my dept are LDS Christians, despite the fact we live in a minority LDS area. 

Its a mixing of church and state Im not happy with.  There’s a reason I avoid high LDS areas like the plague. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Jane_Doe

[Backroads]

So a few years ago I did up and quit a miserable job. Granted, the nature of teacher pay meant I was good on income until finding another job and I'm not sure how financially free you are to do that.

But if it's an option, consider it.

This goal group thing at church sounds... odd. Like, when do y'all have time for that during services?

[Backroads]

8 hours ago, mikbone said:

 

 

I have noticed a trend in the church during my lifetime of goal setting, accountability, building relationships of trust, number acquisition... that all seem to come out of a business self-help book.  It drives me crazy.  Jesus Christ doesn't strike me as a CEO, trying to justify his job/salary to a board of directors.  

 

It honestly sets off my prosperity gospel alarm.

 

[Jane_Doe]

7 hours ago, Backroads said:

It honestly sets off my prosperity gospel alarm.

 

On one hand I 100% agree with you.

On the other hand it's important to note, the way I'm seeing this play out in my ward, where leadership blatantly quote these type of books regularly, is they are focused on either non-temporal things (like goals for actually doing CFM with your family), or if it is temporal it's preparedness/self-reliance stuff.  My ward has a lot of low-income college students, and I get the impression that leadership gets a lot of "save me!" requests related to poor management of temporal things-- a lot of young folks simply need a budgeting lesson.  I don't know if that makes it any better (I'm kind of feeling "no") but that is part of the situtation.  There's a lot of goals to have more scripture study, prioritize going to the temple, etc.  

[Ironhold]

22 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Church lately is NOT helping.  Rather it's actively hurting -- so many lessons on "we need be more productive & make more goals!  Everyone get into groups & declare what new goal you will do this week, and then the group leader will text you tracking your progress.  Remember if you didn't get things done, it's because you need to re-prioritize your life!  Remember this quote from 'Atomic Habits'...."   Over and over again.   And it totally doesn't help that my boss & others are in ward/stake leadership positions.  

I....this is the opposite of what I need spiritually.  I need shelter from the storm & rest, not lectures on doing more.  I....honestly I'm writing this in tears, having had to shut off Stake Conference after more of the same.  I'm just.... so tired.  

Thank you for listening to my story.

As the saying goes, "some people are so Heavenly-minded that they are of no Earthly good". 

When I was in college, my mom read somewhere that some companies wouldn't hire a person unless they'd read "The 7 Habits of Highly Successful People". This caused her to freak out, and so when we were in the area shopping mall one day she caused a scene in their book store because she wanted me to get the book right then and there. 

One anecdote in the book talks about a friend of the author who owned a store inside of a shopping mall. The mall's owners decided to raise the rent by a degree that the store owner couldn't afford, and the store owner's pleas fell on deaf ears. When the store owner asked the author for assistance, the author responded by declaring that if the store owner and the mall owner hadn't come to a mutually-beneficial agreement then the store owner hadn't tried hard enough. 

To say that I was furious was an understatement. 

I was even *more* furious when I discovered that E-Bay was so flooded with copies of books I could have gotten it for $5 under the cover price even *with* shipping, and that by the time I finished reading it so many more copies had flooded the site I would have to sell my copy for even less. I guess I wasn't the only one who read the book and realized that it was pure hokum. 

It sounds to me like the people in charge at church have a dire lack of empathy. They are so overly optimistic that they literally cannot fathom why any noble or high-minded idea would fail, instead presuming that any failure was a failure on the part of the person who didn't achieve. It's pretty similar to what I was going through when the local and stake leadership were declaring "every member a missionary means that all young men must serve formal missions and all young women must shun any young man who doesn't"; these people didn't realize that there were far more ways of serving the church than just in wearing a name tag, and many, many missionary opportunities were lost because of it. 

I would take the matter up in prayer to determine if it's appropriate for you to counsel with these individuals in private, and if so how. They need to be made aware of the fact that their efforts are doing more harm than good by ignoring the fact that external factors may legitimately be beyond someone's control, and that they - as members of the church - need to be open to the prospect that maybe people cannot legitimately make something happen without help. 

[Ironhold]

As a follow-up to my post, something that might be worth discussing as well: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism

There's a rather controversial hypothesis in the world of psychology which holds that people who are more depressed are more likely to grasp the nuances of certain situations and respond in a more appropriate fashion. 

A lot of what I've seen in life, and heard from others, does seem to indicate that the more pie-in-the-sky someone is, the less likely they are to actually try and work out the nuts and bolts of why a system isn't working, let alone take steps to fix it. 

[Just_A_Guy]

This may be at tangent, but . . .

In my current job—it took me *three years* of applying just to get hired in the job title with the employer I wanted, and then another year and a half to get transferred to the location my family wanted (I’m over-simplifying a bit, but that’s accurate enough for purposes of this discussion).

But right now, my office has two attorney positions open; and one paralegal position.  We advertised for one of the attorney positions about two months ago and got zero qualified applicants, whereas historically listings for similar jobs have yielded 10-20 applicants who were qualified enough to interview.  We typically get two or three dozen qualified paralegal applicants; this time around we got maybe half a dozen.

It’s always scary to quit a job without having another one lined up.  But (and obviously, with the caveat that I don’t know you or your profession, or the job market where you live)—if your current job is what’s preventing you from finding a new one, I would venture to suggest that in most of our lifetimes there has never been a better time to apply the “quit-first-find-a-new-job-later” model.  Employers right now are begging for qualified workers; and you’ve always come across on this board as educated, thoughtful, empathetic, thorough, and diligent.  I think that right now you could do pretty much anything you wanted to; and if even you don’t have the academic credentials for whatever you want to go into (need a 4-year degree or an extra certification or whatever)—I’ll bet you could make it happen in pretty short order.

And frankly, little hints you’re dropping here and there make me wonder if your current employer isn’t sort of trading on your common religious affiliation in order to keep you and your LDS co-workers “in line”.  Maybe not in a deliberately oppressive “let’s see how little we can make her work for” sort of way, but perhaps in a sort of “I work hard to give my employees a good work environment and so they’re more loyal to me and the company” sort of mindset.  And that’s a nice thing, if you can get it; but ultimately—Working with other Mormons can be enjoyable, and especially if you don’t live in Utah; but they don’t come over and put food on my table when the workday ends.  

Edited February 21, 2022 by Just_A_Guy

[MarginOfError]

On 2/20/2022 at 1:05 PM, Jane_Doe said:

Church lately is NOT helping.  Rather it's actively hurting -- so many lessons on "we need be more productive & make more goals!  Everyone get into groups & declare what new goal you will do this week, and then the group leader will text you tracking your progress.  Remember if you didn't get things done, it's because you need to re-prioritize your life!  Remember this quote from 'Atomic Habits'...."   Over and over again.   And it totally doesn't help that my boss & others are in ward/stake leadership positions.  

This irks me.  A lot. I beg you to say no.  

Practice this sentence: "This weekly goal thing isn't working for me and I don't want to participate." And then say it ad nauseum anytime they ask you to join a goal. Say it until they stop asking. 

Take a break and decide how it is that you want to pursue your self betterment.  

[MarginOfError]

On 2/20/2022 at 7:51 PM, mikbone said:

I have noticed a trend in the church during my lifetime of goal setting, accountability, building relationships of trust, number acquisition... that all seem to come out of a business self-help book.  It drives me crazy.  Jesus Christ doesn't strike me as a CEO, trying to justify his job/salary to a board of directors. 

This kind of stuff drives me crazy, too. Especially when it gets into the frequent setting of what I'll call "micro-goals" (for lack of a better word).  By this I mean setting frequent goals for the sake of setting goals. Goals need to have a purpose and should help guide a strategy. Micro goals that don't support a broader concept are just busy work. 

Having said that, I helped teach our young men and my own kids to set SMART goals when this new youth initiative rolled out.  And I encouraged them to set very broad goals.  For me, one was to hike 1779 miles in ten years. My major goals this year are to complete my scouting religious award and to do all of the exercises in a stats text that might help advance my next career step. They fit all the criteria for "business goals" with measurable steps, accountability, blah blah blah.  But the key aspect is that they actually have a purpose to improving something about myself.  any smaller goals that get created along the way are steps I need to take to accomplish the larger goal. 

But just as importantly, I don't evaluate my progress on those goals at a super high frequency. Maybe once every month or two.  Am I falling behind in some...you better believe it.  Am I learning some things about myself along the way?  Yep.  Am I happy with where I'm at?  Mixed feelings. 

And that's all ok. I'm moving in the right direction at a pace slower than I'd like. But realistically, I've got way too much going on in my life to reasonably keep the pace I want. I'll cut myself some slack. 

And that's how personal goals should work. (end of rant)

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

This irks me.  A lot. I beg you to say no.  

Practice this sentence: "This weekly goal thing isn't working for me and I don't want to participate." And then say it ad nauseum anytime they ask you to join a goal. Say it until they stop asking. 

Take a break and decide how it is that you want to pursue your self betterment.  

“I’ve been having an issue with lustful thoughts lately.  Especially about *you*, dear group leader.  My current goal is to limit myself to three lustful thoughts about you per week.  You’ll be following up with me . . . what, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday?  Excellent.  Excellent.”

[MarginOfError]

2 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

“I’ve been having an issue with lustful thoughts lately.  Especially about *you*, dear group leader.  My current goal is to limit myself to three lustful thoughts about you per week.  You’ll be following up with me . . . what, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday?  Excellent.  Excellent.”

That's just evil. 

I love it.

[Just_A_Guy]

7 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

That's just evil. 

I love it.

I’m serving in my ward Sunday School presidency right now, and I think a big emphasis in our trainings is going to be teacher questions.  I think often teachers will pitch a question to their class without stopping to think:

a) Is this something I’d feel comfortable/open enough to publicly answer myself?

b) Is this something that I’ve thought about enough that I could articulate a personal, authentic response in a reasonable amount of time without embarrassing myself?

c)  Am I prepared for the possibility that someone may answer the question in a way that is not, fundamentally, a humblebrag?

Edited February 22, 2022 by Just_A_Guy

[Jane_Doe]

5 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

This irks me.  A lot. I beg you to say no.  

Practice this sentence: "This weekly goal thing isn't working for me and I don't want to participate." And then say it ad nauseum anytime they ask you to join a goal. Say it until they stop asking. 

Take a break and decide how it is that you want to pursue your self betterment.  

Honestly I just left the meeting.  And keep doing so when it comes up.

[Jane_Doe]

5 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

This kind of stuff drives me crazy, too. Especially when it gets into the frequent setting of what I'll call "micro-goals" (for lack of a better word).  By this I mean setting frequent goals for the sake of setting goals. Goals need to have a purpose and should help guide a strategy. Micro goals that don't support a broader concept are just busy work. 

Having said that, I helped teach our young men and my own kids to set SMART goals when this new youth initiative rolled out.  And I encouraged them to set very broad goals.  For me, one was to hike 1779 miles in ten years. My major goals this year are to complete my scouting religious award and to do all of the exercises in a stats text that might help advance my next career step. They fit all the criteria for "business goals" with measurable steps, accountability, blah blah blah.  But the key aspect is that they actually have a purpose to improving something about myself.  any smaller goals that get created along the way are steps I need to take to accomplish the larger goal. 

But just as importantly, I don't evaluate my progress on those goals at a super high frequency. Maybe once every month or two.  Am I falling behind in some...you better believe it.  Am I learning some things about myself along the way?  Yep.  Am I happy with where I'm at?  Mixed feelings. 

And that's all ok. I'm moving in the right direction at a pace slower than I'd like. But realistically, I've got way too much going on in my life to reasonably keep the pace I want. I'll cut myself some slack. 

And that's how personal goals should work. (end of rant)

*Putting church stuff aside*

FWIW: when it comes to making goals (like in general, I'm not talking church), I actually do see the purpose of micro-goals.  If you're struggling or just overwhelmed, having your focus being on "just this one foot in front of the other" is very helpful.  Yes, you want to have the big goal in mind so you're walking the right direction, but once that's established "one step at a time" can be very helpful.  In fact at work right now, where I have a ton of tasks to do, I literally made myself I giant Word doc of all of these requests.  When a new one gets added, I scroll down to the bottom, copy-paste it there, and then forget about it until I reach that point.  

 

Also, ironically I would be much much happier  at work if I had a professional growth plan with my boss.  Where I could develop and reap rewards from that.  Not just "go Jane, gold star", but promotion, raise, etc.  Where it's not a dead end.  

Edited February 22, 2022 by Jane_Doe

[mikbone]

11 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Also, ironically I would be much much happier  at work if I had a professional growth plan with my boss.  Where I could develop and reap rewards from that.  Not just "go Jane, gold star", but

Oh boy!  I love it.

The old role reversal.  Use those business techniques on him. 

Good luck!