Conspiracies


Traveler
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By definition, a conspiracy is a plan, agreement or idea carried out, perpetrated or agreed upon by 2 or more individuals.  A conspiracy does not have to be false, ridiculous, unfounded or nefarious.  A conspiracy can be beneficial, true and even of great benefit.  We have all encountered ridiculous conspiracy theories that are obviously or even not so obviously way far out into the weeds so much so that to believe such nonsense would be a threat to our own intelligence.  But the strange thing about even the most ridiculous conspiracy theories is that none would most likely not even exist without an underlying conspiracy putting it out.

The point I am making is that we cannot live and communicate as a society without conspiracies and every time we encounter a conspiracy – we encounter a real, actual conspiracy – weather the actual conspiracy being presented is the conspiracy or the conspiracy to present it as a possibility.  Thus, there are only two possibilities behind every conspiracy.  The first is to uncover a truth for all to see or the second is to hide, distort or confuse truth.

With all this as a format – I will present a conspiracy theory.  My theory is that the core of every conspiracy is related to a war begun a very long time ago in the pre-existence and thus either has the backing of the G-dhead and those that follow them or Satan and those that follow him.  One would therefore think it quite easy to distinguish between the two.  But there is a problem.  That problem is that Satan and those that follow him have no aversion to making some of their conspiracies look like officially divine conspiracies.

So how do we identify which conspiracies are which?  For the answer I will present scripture from modern revelations intended and specific for these the Latter-days.  The scripture I present is from the Doctrine and Covenants section 9:

Quote

6 Do not murmur, my son, for it is wisdom in me that I have dealt with you after this manner.

7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.

I have personally found that 99.9% of the time I can resolve within myself by my own studies what the source of a conspiracy is.  However, please note that there is only one way to be 100% accurate and on the “right” track.  This is, that after I have studied and considered what I can (including discussing with others) – that if there is any possibility of misunderstanding or missing of something – that I can only move forward through prayer and asking G-d directly for input.

What I have found is that even after all my studies and payer – quite often I do not have clear resolution one way or another, except to continue my efforts.  In fact, often when I believe I have uncovered truth I still have a feeling that what I uncovered is only part and that I ought to seek for more before my understanding is complete.

So, I open this discussion with the idea and intent to present conspiracies that I believe should be investigated more.  Perhaps I should start a new thread for each conspiracy????

 

The Traveler

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Before I follow @mirkwood's suggestion and mention any specific conspiracies I thought to include some of the methods I use to study conspiracies.  Rather than beginning by attempting to determine is a conspiracy is true or false - I begin instead with an attempt to discover who benefits the most when the conspiracy is made known or perpetrated.  Second I attempt to discover who benefits the most as or when the conspiracy takes place.  In concert with these first two steps I also attempt to discover who suffers the most detriment from the conspiracy being made known and who suffers the greatest detriment from the results of the conspiracy.  As strange as it may seem - it is often quite difficult to determine the beneficiaries from those that suffer detriments.  In scripture we are warned that often those with nefarious intents of deception will often claim (lie) that those of greatest detriment are instead the greatest beneficiaries. 

An example of upside claims is perhaps those involved in detriment claimed as beneficiaries is the notion that those that are giving revolving credit are the greatest beneficiaries because they get things they want but in reality the real beneficiaries are those that receive the payments of the high interest payments - often several time the value of the initial purchase.   

Another point of analysis involves attempting to discover are - what other or similar conspiracies are the beneficiaries also benefiting from as well as those suffering the detriments also suffering additional detriments.  Sometime such discovery efforts take time and are difficult but it would seem that in our studies patients are required.   I bring this up because very often when I pray about something I receive the impression (I personally associate impressions with the term "feelings" in verse 8 of the quote from the D&C I used in starting this thread) that I am learning the truth line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept.  

The next effort of analysis is what I call the logic and reason of the conspiracy itself.  Often this is where most start their study.  But there is a problem with starting here with what I call the logic and reason of circular expert references.  This is because very often conspiracies gain their creditability by quoting experts - and such experts become experts from quoting other experts and so on until we find the opinions circulating back to the original expert opinion.   I would point out that there is a difference in an opinion based in analyzing other opinions from an opinion based in analyzing data.  Part of the study of logic and reason involves both the pro (support) and con (opposition) to the conspiracies or the ideas or elements of the conspiracies.  I believe that the logic of opposition is important for many reasons.  For example I believe we learn more from those that oppose our thinking than those that agree.  So when I start to agree with a conspiracy - I study carefully those that oppose and vice versa.  

The final step is to ask G-d in prayer if what I have discovered is true.  But let me clarify that there is a difference in asking G-d to tell me something in a manner that I want to hear rather than to approve my conclusion.  I have thought to give an example of a personal failure on my part in not understanding how such things work.  When I returned from my mission I was having difficulty finding a young lady to marry.  Though I dated a great deal - it seemed that I had a stupor of thought and no clarity.  So I determined to use the method of the servant of Abraham that was sent to find a wife for Isaac.  (note that marriage is a conspiracy of two people that should involve G-d as well).  I decided that I would know my future wife when a young lady noticed that I needed a drink and thus offered me a glass of water.  I am sure a lot can see the problem with this logic but at the time I though the logic to be iron clad.  Not long after I determined this for myself a certain young lady came and offered me (out of the blue) a drink of water because I looked thirsty.  The first problem was that I did not like this particular lady very much but even worse she like me even less.  When I attempted to be loyal to my conviction and have a discussion with her concerning this matter (conspiracy) she determined that I was a complete nut job and thus cared even less - not just for me but for my thinking in this whole matter.  When I took this matter to my Father in Heaven - I received the direct impression that he was somewhat amused with all this and gave me the impression that I should have asked him about it before I proceeded.  Lesson learned - when I prayed about the lady that became my wife - the whole experience was much different for the both of us.  And in 49 years the beneficiaries have been many in this particular conspiracy and I do not know of anyone suffering for the detriment from it.

 

The Traveler

 

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Conspiracy: The shiny, multi-colored dots on a person's mailbox are markers placed by the government to signal what the status of the residents will be in the event of some nefarious turn of events.

Reality: Those shiny, multi-colored dots are available over-the-counter from office supply companies like Uline (or at least they were when I last ran a residential delivery route), and are typically put in place by service workers - such as newspaper delivery drivers and utility workers - to help them quickly determine who is or isn't a customer and what level of service they require. 

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I have wondered what conspiracy would best start a discussion.  Note that as we look at a particular conspiracy the last thing we want to consider is its validly.   So lets begin with "Climate Change".  The first consideration is who suffers from the detriment of climate change.  We have a lot of historical examples of entire civilizations failing because of climate change - thus the initial answer is - everybody suffers.  The only exceptions are those that are able to adapt to the changes in climate.  This holds true not just for human civilization but for all living things - both plants and animals.  In science we call this adaptation "survival of the fittest".   Over 99% of all historical species of life on this planet have failed to adapt to climate change and have become extinct. 

Who is behind the revealing or making known climate change.  This is where things get most interesting.  We are told that pushing the narrative is science.  The theory pushing the science is Chaos Theory.  This is because chaos theory is the best known way to model complex systems.  Before going into a full blown discussion about the science of Chaos Theory (especially concerning climate theory) it is important to note that the proponents of climate change are 100% focused on one parameter involved in the scientific understanding of climate.  That parameter is carbon dioxide. But this particular parameter gets increasingly interesting because the proponents of climate change are only interested and focused on artificially produced carbon dioxide and particularly only on carbon dioxide produced by human civilization burning fossil fuels. 

Fossil fuels are the engines of modern civilization that is the foundation of human population.  If we use the same chaos theory modeling that the proponents of climate change use to model effects of climate change based on human changes in carbon dioxide - the changes proposed in (eliminating) fossil fuels will (using the same chaos theory modeling) reduce human populations by 80 to 90 percent or more (human extinction is possible).  And so, we must wonder - who benefits from the changes proposed as necessary to end climate change? It looks a lot like no one.

It is my speculation that we can only know who benefits through understanding what other conspiracies are also being pushed by the proponents for stopping climate change by eliminating the use of fossil fuels.  The primary other conspiracy being pushed by the climate change conspiracy folks is what is called Globalism.   In essence this is a single governing body for all human civilization.  This is, as near as I can determine, an international political movement that opposes - national borders, capitalism, parental controls of children, community controlled education, eliminating citizen owned and controlled firearms, private health care, free speech (in opposition to what is called protected speech), personal gender choice and several others – in essence – the “Progressive political movement”.  Those that benefit from these programs???? Answer – the political elites that are in control and hold the political reins of power and those they choose to benefit.

 

The Traveler

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On 4/7/2022 at 12:43 PM, Traveler said:

But the strange thing about even the most ridiculous conspiracy theories

…is that no matter how insane it is, someone will believe it. 
 

A professor in college said “I can come up with a theory that says we were all created five minutes ago with wrinkles on our faces, food in our stomachs from meals that never happened and memories of events that never took place. And people would believe it too.” 
 

He was, sadly, 100% correct. 
 

One of my many, many issues with 95% of conspiracies is that the believers fail to comprehend the basics of critical thinking. “What? There is no evidence that JFK was killed by Lyndon Johnson? Well, that just shows how deep the conspiracy is.” 
 

No matter how crazy the conspiracy is, the believers always claim to know the “real truth”. Heck, if the people behind the conspiracy were that good, you’d think they would cover it up better. But I digress. 

The truth is that I shot JFK. Even though it happened decades before I was born. The lack of evidence just shows how deep the cover up is. I was also in special forces. Seal team four. What? I have no proof for my absurd claims? Oh because that’s classified.

And besides, it was Seal Team two. 😉 

Edited by LDSGator
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3 hours ago, LDSGator said:

…is that no matter how insane it is, someone will believe it. 
 

A professor in college said “I can come up with a theory that says we were all created five minutes ago with wrinkles on our faces, food in our stomachs from meals that never happened and memories of events that never took place. And people would believe it too.” 
 

He was, sadly, 100% correct. 
 

One of my many, many issues with 95% of conspiracies is that the believers fail to comprehend the basics of critical thinking. “What? There is no evidence that JFK was killed by Lyndon Johnson? Well, that just shows how deep the conspiracy is.” 
 

No matter how crazy the conspiracy is, the believers always claim to know the “real truth”. Heck, if the people behind the conspiracy were that good, you’d think they would cover it up better. But I digress. 

The truth is that I shot JFK. Even though it happened decades before I was born. The lack of evidence just shows how deep the cover up is. I was also in special forces. Seal team four. What? I have no proof for my absurd claims? Oh because that’s classified.

And besides, it was Seal Team two. 😉 

Thank you for your response and interest.  I am trying to take a different take with this thread.  This is not about weather a particular conspiracy is real, factual or true.  But rather who is putting forward a particular conspiracy and what they are doing because of the perceived (true or false) conspiracy.  I am much less concerned about who believes what - what I intended to focus on in this thread is what is happening because of the conspiracy.  For example: If the goal is to replace internal private combustion vehicles with electric powered vehicles -- there is not enough known silver and lithium reserves to do that with current known and available technology.  The point being - if we only have 12 years to stop climate change according to what the "experts" say must be done - then a very large percent of our middle class population is going to be reduced to poverty (not like in the USA but rather more like the worse 80% of the poverty of non developed nations).   What is sad about all this is that the rank and file believers in climate change think someone else will make the sacrifice and those that have electric cars will all be fine.  And those with solar panels will be able to maintain current standards in their homes.  The reality is that the standard of living will be reduced by 80 to 90 percent.  Perhaps you can now see why it is going to be necessary to get firearms out of the hands of citizens - currently there are more firearms in the USA than there are citizens.

 

The Traveler

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On 4/7/2022 at 11:43 AM, Traveler said:

My theory is that the core of every conspiracy is related to a war begun a very long time ago in the pre-existence and thus either has the backing of the G-dhead and those that follow them or Satan and those that follow him.  One would therefore think it quite easy to distinguish between the two.  But there is a problem.  That problem is that Satan and those that follow him have no aversion to making some of their conspiracies look like officially divine conspiracies.

Here is the key.  We all know that there are conspiracies.  But the question is whether anything we hear is a true conspiracy or just another myth.  I think it is very important to take the middle road on something like this.  The two extremes:

  • Automatically assume that everything we hear is simply a myth made by ridiculous nutjobs.  Then we can with our profound wisdom and knowledge of the worldly ways find a perfectly acceptable mundane explanation for something that could potentially ruin our nation and our lives if we're not wary of it.
  • Automatically assume that everything we hear (conspiracy-wise) is absolutely true.  And only the most naïve of people would simply ignore it via a mundane explanation.

There are some conspiracies that were pretty clearly just a myth.  I took about 30 minutes looking up stuff on the 2012 "end of the world" thing and I told everyone it was just a myth.  But there were some in my circles who kept saying it was going to be the end of the world.

I've also taken time to tell people about some real conspiracies, only to have people give me that look that says: "so your a conspiracy-theory nut job.  That's ok, we love you anyway, you little nut."  Then some years later they find them to be true and their reaction is, "and...?"

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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Here is the key.  We all know that there are conspiracies.  But the question is whether anything we hear is a true conspiracy or just another myth.  I think it is very important to take the middle road on something like this.  The two extremes:

  • Automatically assume that everything we hear is simply a myth made by ridiculous nutjobs.  Then we can with our profound wisdom and knowledge of the worldly ways find a perfectly acceptable mundane explanation for something that could potentially ruin our nation and our lives if we're not wary of it.
  • Automatically assume that everything we hear (conspiracy-wise) is absolutely true.  And only the most naïve of people would simply ignore it via a mundane explanation.

There are some conspiracies that were pretty clearly just a myth.  I took about 30 minutes looking up stuff on the 2012 "end of the world" thing and I told everyone it was just a myth.  But there were some in my circles who kept saying it was going to be the end of the world.

I've also taken time to tell people about some real conspiracies, only to have people give me that look that says: "so your a conspiracy-theory nut job.  That's ok, we love you anyway, you little nut."  Then some years later they find them to be true and their reaction is, "and...?"

I have attempted to put forth that there are more elements to conspiracies than just if they are true or not.  I have tried to express that in essence all of Satan's conspiracies are based in lies and are not true.  Sometimes false conspiracies are created specifically to misdirect or cover up things that some do not want known.  For example - I worked for a time testing maned craft use by the military and as part of my instructions for testing I was instructed to avoid human interaction with a certain vibration frequency.  My instructions were very explicit and accurate to several decimals or accuracy - that this very precise frequency is the resident frequency of living human tissue and that even small, short or slight exposure to this frequency (which was classified) would likely cause death.  I wondered - How do "they" know this with such accuracy?

Sometime understanding who is behind a conspiracy or what is the purpose of a conspiracy is more important than if it true or false.

I have thought to add something.  In my work for the defense department I am quite sure that the powers that be are delighted and pleased that many think the great conspiracy of our nation's defense is that they are hiding prof of extraterrestrials.  And it does not matter that the conspiracy is obviously absurd.  One may also recall general Moroni's conspiracies to lure Laminate armies out of well fortified cities.   Even deceptive conspiracies can have a good intended outcome.

 

The Traveler 

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20 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Here is the key.  We all know that there are conspiracies.  But the question is whether anything we hear is a true conspiracy or just another myth.  I think it is very important to take the middle road on something like this.  The two extremes:

  • Automatically assume that everything we hear is simply a myth made by ridiculous nutjobs.  Then we can with our profound wisdom and knowledge of the worldly ways find a perfectly acceptable mundane explanation for something that could potentially ruin our nation and our lives if we're not wary of it.
  • Automatically assume that everything we hear (conspiracy-wise) is absolutely true.  And only the most naïve of people would simply ignore it via a mundane explanation.

There are some conspiracies that were pretty clearly just a myth.  I took about 30 minutes looking up stuff on the 2012 "end of the world" thing and I told everyone it was just a myth.  But there were some in my circles who kept saying it was going to be the end of the world.

I've also taken time to tell people about some real conspiracies, only to have people give me that look that says: "so your a conspiracy-theory nut job.  That's ok, we love you anyway, you little nut."  Then some years later they find them to be true and their reaction is, "and...?"

A big issue with conspiracies is the need to sit down, pull the threads, and see what unravels. 

For example, consider the whole "Paul is dead!" conspiracy, which claims that Sir Paul McCartney was killed in a car crash at some point in 1966 and replaced with an imposter named William (either William Campbell, Billy Shears, or William Shears Campbell). It further claims that the band members or someone affiliated with the band objected to this trickery and started hiding clues in the band's various materials pointing towards this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_is_dead

From what I understand:

1. Paul was in a very unpleasant motorcycle (motor scooter?) accident which left him with head trauma that may have had an effect on his memory and behavior in the years immediately following. 

2. One of Paul's friends borrowed Paul's car and then proceeded to wrap it around a light post, leading to the "Death Cab For Cutie" headline as at least one newspaper erroneously reported that he - Paul - was dead. 

3. The band themselves were aware of the rumors very early in 1967 and tried to dispel them, only to inadvertently draw more attention to them. 

 

It seems that, at least on the surface, the conspiracy was generated by a combination of points 1 and 2, erroneous reports of Paul being killed in a serious car crash and his somewhat different appearance and mannerisms after his motorcycle accident. Under the circumstances, it would seem quite plausible that people would be suspicious, especially given what was going on at that time. 

It wouldn't surprise me, however, if someone at their record label was behind the conspiracy, or at least worked to fan the flames, as the conspiracy kept the band in the headlines and likely juiced their album and movie sales. 

 

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9 hours ago, Ironhold said:

A big issue with conspiracies is the need to sit down, pull the threads, and see what unravels. 

For example, consider the whole "Paul is dead!" conspiracy, which claims that Sir Paul McCartney was killed in a car crash at some point in 1966 and replaced with an imposter named William (either William Campbell, Billy Shears, or William Shears Campbell). It further claims that the band members or someone affiliated with the band objected to this trickery and started hiding clues in the band's various materials pointing towards this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_is_dead

From what I understand:

1. Paul was in a very unpleasant motorcycle (motor scooter?) accident which left him with head trauma that may have had an effect on his memory and behavior in the years immediately following. 

2. One of Paul's friends borrowed Paul's car and then proceeded to wrap it around a light post, leading to the "Death Cab For Cutie" headline as at least one newspaper erroneously reported that he - Paul - was dead. 

3. The band themselves were aware of the rumors very early in 1967 and tried to dispel them, only to inadvertently draw more attention to them. 

 

It seems that, at least on the surface, the conspiracy was generated by a combination of points 1 and 2, erroneous reports of Paul being killed in a serious car crash and his somewhat different appearance and mannerisms after his motorcycle accident. Under the circumstances, it would seem quite plausible that people would be suspicious, especially given what was going on at that time. 

It wouldn't surprise me, however, if someone at their record label was behind the conspiracy, or at least worked to fan the flames, as the conspiracy kept the band in the headlines and likely juiced their album and movie sales. 

It wasn't the record label.  It was the Beatles' own standard M.O. 

They would do something that was complete nonsense and wonder how the fans would take it.  And if they heard something they liked or found amusing, they'd stoke the fires.

So, your conspiracy theory turned out to be pointed the wrong direction.  It was the Beatles way of having fun with the fans.  How apropos.

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