southern boarder


Traveler
 Share

Recommended Posts

It is estimated that if present trends hold that by time President Biden finishes his first term that 20% of the people living in the united states will be illegal.  I would add that those coming across the southern borders illegally are 100% controlled by the Mexican drug cartels. 

 

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Traveler said:

It is estimated that if present trends hold that by time President Biden finishes his first term that 20% of the people living in the united states will be illegal.  I would add that those coming across the southern borders illegally are 100% controlled by the Mexican drug cartels. 

 

The Traveler

What’s the fix?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Traveler said:

I would add that those coming across the southern borders illegally are 100% controlled by the Mexican drug cartels. 

What do you mean by "controlled"?

I'm thinking the vast majority of folks hopping the border illegally are just wanting to get into the US for a better life, without going through "proper" channels.  (Understandable, because "proper channels" are more about political rivalry through legislation than about a sane immigration policy.)

I'm aware how the coyotes and orgs that move them, press 'em into service as a way to pay for their transport, hold family members hostages, etc.  But 100% of them?  

A source would be helpful.  That means a link to a study or article or something I can read.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

What do you mean by "controlled"?

I'm thinking the vast majority of folks hopping the border illegally are just wanting to get into the US for a better life, without going through "proper" channels.  (Understandable, because "proper channels" are more about political rivalry through legislation than about a sane immigration policy.)

I'm aware how the coyotes and orgs that move them, press 'em into service as a way to pay for their transport, hold family members hostages, etc.  But 100% of them?  

A source would be helpful.  That means a link to a study or article or something I can read.

There are many sources but here is one (from 4 years ago under Trump) by the New York Times.  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/06/30/world/smuggling-illegal-immigration-costs.html   I am sure you can Google many more if you like.  The drug cartels make a lot of $$$$ with human trafficking.   You may also have recalled the family murdered by the cartels near the border (polygamists breakoffs from the LDS settlements) over control of a road close to the border.

A little story - about 25 years ago I took my family to Mexico where my son served his mission (his new wife was also included).  While we were in Merida the stake he served in has a party to welcome us.  It was an most unusual honor - especially because of their poverty.   I spent some time with the stake president that had a small taxi business (4 small beater cars) that were used exclusively for Mexicans.  I asked him about growing his business.  Perhaps some better cars for tourists or just more cars I thought to infest in him as a service.  This good man told me he could not grow his business because the local police would steal his cars and demand a cut of his profits.  He needed to operate below their awareness.  

Mexico is quite corrupt meaning controlled by the cartels.  I can give some other personal experiences if you like - part of my consulting (now closed because of COVID and I am too old to start it up again)  involved a company in Mexico (Guadalajara).  The cartels are deeply imbedded in any profitable enterprise.  I cannot prove it by articles or links but I am quite sure the cartels keep track of every one crossing the border with the intent if using them for many reasons - especially for political reason (influence) in the USA.  I am sure that if illegals are granted voting privileges and ballets can be mailed in or gathered and brought in bulk that the cartels will gather the ballets to insure political candidates they control will be elected.  Now think about the election laws changes that the Democrats are attempting to pass and how and how easy it would be for the cartels to control a block of 20% in any election.

I personally do not like stanch Republicans so much but I have to wonder the more - why anyone would support the Democratic party????

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

why anyone would support the Democratic party

Simply put-they agree with their platform and disagree with the republicans. There. That easy. It’s no grand conspiracy, they aren’t bad people. It’s just a matter of agreeing with their platform more than others. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got a run-down 6 months ago from our local city cops on how illegals are used in the drug trade.  It's quite impressive.  A family of 4 wants to cross the border.  It's free, with a few 'strings attached'.  Everyone goes to different states.  When you get there, within a week or so, you get an apartment, a backpack, a cell phone, keys to a car, and some money for food.  Your cell phone gives you the address to deliver the backpack to.  It gives you the location to pick up your next backpack.  Later, the next delivery address.  Rinse, repeat.  In this way, you work off the cost of your border crossing.  After you've paid your debt, they tell you where the rest of your family is. At least, that's the promise. 

The other end of the deal, people are buying drugs on a black site, similar to Amazon.  You're the delivery end of the deal.  You're told if you get caught, just tell the cops everything you know.  You can't tell them who delivers the backpacks, or who receives them, because you never see them.  The last two years have seen an overall reduction on offenses for minor drug offenses, you may not even be charged, if your city has an illegal-friendly or drug offense-friendly DA.

If you're lucky, you all get back together.  If you're unlucky, someone gets caught and deported.  Or you never see your daughter again, because she was sold into the sex trafficking trade. Or your son is killed along the way.  Or someone decides you're a good delivery driver and the game changes to "keep doing what we say, or we'll have your wife killed".

Imma go ahead and say Traveler is up in the night with his "100% controlled" claim.  Because there are plenty of folks with $50 grand to burn on the crossing, who end up owing nobody, and can get themselves a bus ticket to wherever they want to be after the coyotes are done with them.   And Mexico isn't the only border.  And there are water crossings.  And anyone in the situation above is one bus ticket away from the TCOs.

Edited by NeuroTypical
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Simply put-they agree with their platform and disagree with the republicans. There. That easy. It’s no grand conspiracy, they aren’t bad people. It’s just a matter of agreeing with their platform more than others. 

I can easily see why they disagree with the Republicans - especially those that make their living as a member of the Republican party.  And I think I would understand your statement better if you included just one word in your explanation so it read as follows: "Simply put-they blindly agree with their platform."  I hope it is not because of the results of those they elect.

 

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/12/2022 at 11:39 AM, Traveler said:

why anyone would support the Democratic party????


To be fair, my grandparents have voted strictly Democrat for 30 years. Very devout Christians, they wanted what was best people. 
 

Just two, warm and friendly people who passed away in the early 1990’s. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Traveler said:

Simply put-they blindly agree with their platform."  I

Right, so do many republicans.
 

The bitter pill that political junkies can have a hard time swallowing is that someone can have drastically different politics than our own and still be a moral, intelligent and thinking person. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Godless
On 4/12/2022 at 8:54 PM, Traveler said:

I can easily see why they disagree with the Republicans - especially those that make their living as a member of the Republican party.  And I think I would understand your statement better if you included just one word in your explanation so it read as follows: "Simply put-they blindly agree with their platform."  I hope it is not because of the results of those they elect.

 

The Traveler

The real truth right now is that there isn't a viable third option. Biden's approval ratings among Democrats is absolutely abysal right now, and it's because the old guard Dem establishment is horrifically out of touch with today's liberal voters. This guy put it perfectly: 

Screenshot_20220414-105016_Twitter.thumb.jpg.eeaf491c857235527f3ff699507fd0a5.jpg

I vote 100% Democrat in every election, but I do not consider myself a Democrat. I vote for them with the expectation that they won't screw things up too much worse than they already are, which is an expectation that Republicans have never been able to satisfy. It's a weak expectation, literally the bare minimum, and the fact that Democrats seem happy with it is the only thing keeping them from dominating every election cycle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Colirio said:


To be fair, my grandparents have voted strictly Democrat for 30 years. Very devout Christians, they wanted what was best people. 
 

Just two, warm and friendly people who passed away in the early 1990’s. 

 

21 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Right, so do many republicans.
 

The bitter pill that political junkies can have a hard time swallowing is that someone can have drastically different politics than our own and still be a moral, intelligent and thinking person. 

My father (perhaps the most noble and righteous person I have ever known) was devout Republican.  He would only vote for someone if they were republican and he was convinced that being so devout was the only way to have input into government.  But it was not a matter of just being in the party and voting.  Though he never ran for office in an open public election he was deeply involved in the republican party - especially fundraisers.  No republican running for any office would have party funding from Utah county without his approval.  He explained to me that when he called his representative - city, county, state or federal - they would take his personal calls and listen to him.  He said that a common voter calling their representative will never get past an aid and would be written off as a crack pot and at best a nice form letter would be sent in return.

When I returned from my mission I was being groomed to run for office in the Republican party.  I ran into such corruption at so many levels and in effort to be an honest citizen, I began working with a reporter to bring criminal charges.  I had previously notified both the police and the FBI.  I am quite sure if I had not left the Republican party I would have been blackballed.  I finished college and moved to the DC area and became active in the Democrat party and found that the corruption was exponentially worse.

Generally it is my impression that in the succeeding 45+ years since that political party corruption has increased.  I refuse to associate with either party - but I have attended bipartisan charity events and do my best to act civilly.  And like I have already said - I do not have respect for individuals that think their civic duty is to remain ignorant and vote for politicians exclusively based in corrupt party policy that openly disrespects and despises their political intents. 

I honestly believe that a day will come when we all will be held accountable not just for ourselves but also for those we support and enable (especially politically) - including those we vote for.  As long as we have a right to free speech - I will speak out my opinion.  Free people are morally responsible for their elected officials.

 

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Godless said:

The real truth right now is that there isn't a viable third option. Biden's approval ratings among Democrats is absolutely abysal right now, and it's because the old guard Dem establishment is horrifically out of touch with today's liberal voters. This guy put it perfectly: 

Screenshot_20220414-105016_Twitter.thumb.jpg.eeaf491c857235527f3ff699507fd0a5.jpg

I vote 100% Democrat in every election, but I do not consider myself a Democrat. I vote for them with the expectation that they won't screw things up too much worse than they already are, which is an expectation that Republicans have never been able to satisfy. It's a weak expectation, literally the bare minimum, and the fact that Democrats seem happy with it is the only thing keeping them from dominating every election cycle.

Thank you so much for responding.  I have really wanted to have a noncombative discussion with someone like you.  Would you mind some very specific political questions that have me completely baffled?  I would be more than glad answer any of your questions.

 

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Godless, I really appreciate Will Stancil's and your take on the massive generation gap on the liberal end of things.

My view of the right side has some similarities, and also some differences. 

From where I'm standing, conservative principles are timeless, and are attracting new young folks every day.  Every time I spend 10 minutes on TikTok, I see another gay 25 year old republican talking about how many homophobic names he's called by lefties, or a black young woman relating endless anecdotes of unvarnished racism they've experienced from the left after 'coming out as a conservative'.  There's a black leftie content creator who decided to put on a MAGA hat and infiltrate a right wing rally, wearing a hidden camera to catch all the racism.  His encountered a bunch of people who didn't give a crap about his skin color, and were more than happy to share good barbeque with him.  A dozen good conversations later, he's now a black rightwing content creator.    The old joke says if you're not a liberal by age 20 you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative by 40 you have no brain.  For today's 20-somethings who are watching rent go up due to printing trillions, while the party in charge blames Putin, that second age is now 25.

That said, I also see tragic idiocy on the right, and a republican party structure that seems to feel the need to lift the My Pillow guy onto their shoulders, and talk about how masks make you infertile, in order to keep right wing votes.  These are the ForeverTrumpers, who also booed Trump when he was taking credit for getting the vaccine out quickly, and telling people he got a booster shot.  There are an awful lot of old white republican politicians who think their base can't walk past a school without shouting obscenities about CRT, and literally believe that Trump is running a shadow government to expose the pedophiles.

The November elections will be fun!

Edited by NeuroTypical
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Godless said:

I vote 100% Democrat in every election, but I do not consider myself a Democrat. I vote for them with the expectation that they won't screw things up too much worse than they already are, which is an expectation that Republicans have never been able to satisfy. It's a weak expectation, literally the bare minimum, and the fact that Democrats seem happy with it is the only thing keeping them from dominating every election cycle.

The biggest demographic growth in Republican supporters has been among Hispanic voters. 

One contributing factor is the fact that "progressive" pundits and talking heads insist on using "Latinx" to refer to those of Latin-American ancestry, which represents them attempting to force their political and social sensibilities on the Spanish language. 

I myself have literally seen social media exchanges consisting of someone who is on the more "progressive" side using the term, people who are Hispanic asking them not to and explaining why they regard it as offensive, and the someone trying to defend their continued use of the term. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those who aren't familiar with Spanish as a language - 

The -o and -a you see at the end of many Spanish words is a result of Spanish being an inherently gendered language. 

The prefixes "la" and "las", and the suffixes "-a" and "as", indicate an item or group that is feminine or female. 

The prefixes "el" and "los", and the suffixes "-o and -os", indicate an item or group that is either masculine, male, or mixed-gender. 

This even goes for inanimate objects. 

los pantalones = a pair of pants = masculine

la pluma = ink pen = feminine

Gender is so inherent to Spanish, as a language, that it would be impossible to remove gender without utterly destroying the language and having to start from scratch. 

The problem is that many people who self-identify as politically progressive are against gendered language in the belief that it's inherently sexist, to the point that a moderator over at controversial video gaming website Reset Era banned someone for repeated use of the word "German" in the belief that it was somehow gendered. 

As a result, whenever anything dealing with Spanish as a language comes up, they insist on using "-x" as a gender-neutral suffix even though it has no place in Spanish as a language. Instead, it's nothing more than pure cultural imperialism. 

Things like this are why an increasing number of Hispanic voters are shying away from progressive-leaning causes and politicians. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Godless
1 hour ago, Traveler said:

Thank you so much for responding.  I have really wanted to have a noncombative discussion with someone like you.  Would you mind some very specific political questions that have me completely baffled?  I would be more than glad answer any of your questions.

 

The Traveler

I can't promise that I can satisfactorily answer your questions, but I'll try my best.

 

32 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

@Godless, I really appreciate Will Stancil's and your take on the massive generation gap on the liberal end of things.

My view of the right side has some similarities, and also some differences. 

From where I'm standing, conservative principles are timeless, and are attracting new young folks every day.  Every time I spend 10 minutes on TikTok, I see another gay 25 year old republican talking about how many homophobic names he's called by lefties, or a black young woman relating endless anecdotes of unvarnished racism they've experienced from the left after 'coming out as a conservative'.  There's a black leftie content creator who decided to put on a MAGA hat and infiltrate a right wing rally, wearing a hidden camera to catch all the racism.  His encountered a bunch of people who didn't give a crap about his skin color, and were more than happy to share good barbeque with him.  A dozen good conversations later, he's now a black rightwing content creator.

I certainly won't deny that these problems exist. Politics has always been toxic, and it seems like it's gotten exponentially more so in recent years, with absolutely despicable behavior occuring on both sides.

32 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

  The old joke says if you're not a liberal by age 20 you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative by 40 you have no brain.  For today's 20-somethings who are watching rent go up due to printing trillions, while the party in charge blames Putin, that second age is now 25.

With rent specifically, the problem goes much deeper than that. Government isn't the problem there, but it could be the solution. But it would require an act of actual socialism to solve, so it'll probably never happen. Something similar to what happened in Berlin last year (which, it's worth noting, is likely to fail because it was a toothless referendum) but more actionable. 

32 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

That said, I also see tragic idiocy on the right, and a republican party structure that seems to feel the need to lift the My Pillow guy onto their shoulders, and talk about how masks make you infertile, in order to keep right wing votes.  These are the ForeverTrumpers, who also booed Trump when he was taking credit for getting the vaccine out quickly, and telling people he got a booster shot.  There are an awful lot of old white republican politicians who think their base can't walk past a school without shouting obscenities about CRT, and literally believe that Trump is running a shadow government to expose the pedophiles.

The November elections will be fun!

I've been watching this very closely. Before the 2016 election, I predicted that a Trump victory would ultimately destroy the GOP. Six years later, I still stand by it. The "America First" wing of the Republican Party is relatively small, but very influential. They have (at least) four members in the US House of Representatives, and several others in state legislatures. And they hate the Republican old guard a lot more than the left hates their Dem counterparts. I truly believe that there's a real chance that the far right will ultimately split from the GOP and form their own party. I don't see that happening on the left. 

31 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

The biggest demographic growth in Republican supporters has been among Hispanic voters. 

One contributing factor is the fact that "progressive" pundits and talking heads insist on using "Latinx" to refer to those of Latin-American ancestry, which represents them attempting to force their political and social sensibilities on the Spanish language. 

I myself have literally seen social media exchanges consisting of someone who is on the more "progressive" side using the term, people who are Hispanic asking them not to and explaining why they regard it as offensive, and the someone trying to defend their continued use of the term. 

Hispanic people on the left have always hated that, which is why I never used it. I feel like I've been seeing it less frequently as (bipartisan) Hispanic voices have gotten louder in their opposition to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Godless said:

GOP. Six years later, I still stand by it.

You should, but for different reasons. Trumpers demand loyalty to “their guy”, not conservatism. They leave the GOP in a heartbeat if their master tells them too. 
 

Now the bad news: a civil war is happening on your side too, between AOC and the old line democrats. It’ll be just as damaging to your side as the GOP war is to the GOP 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Godless
13 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

You should, but for different reasons. Trumpers demand loyalty to “their guy”, not conservatism. They leave the GOP in a heartbeat if their master tells them too. 
 

It's bigger than Trump at this point. A lot of those AF types turned on Trump after he failed to follow through on stopping Biden's presidency on/after 1/6, or at the very least dish out some pardons to rioters. He lost a lot more followers last year when he touted the vaccine. The movement is moving forward without him, and I don't even think he realizes it.

13 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Now the bad news: a civil war is happening on your side too, between AOC and the old line democrats. It’ll be just as damaging to your side as the GOP war is to the GOP 

I'm just not convinced of that. There's a rift, sure. But the leftist wing of the party knows that it can't survive politically without the rest of the party. They're actively trying to remake/reform the Democratic party to reflect modern issues and circumstances. America First is more likely to stab the GOP in the back than work to reform it. They'll divide conservatives and then cry fraud when they keep losing elections.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Godless said:

It's bigger than Trump at this point. A lot of those AF types turned on Trump after he failed to follow through on stopping Biden's presidency on/after 1/6, or at the very least dish out some pardons to rioters. He lost a lot more followers last year when he touted the vaccine. The movement is moving forward without him, and I don't even think he realizes it.

Yes….and no. He’s called the “teflon Don” for a reason @Godless. Also, if his followers really turned on him over those issues than maybe they aren’t as cult like as you and I think they are-and yes, I do think Trumpers are members of a cult. 

 

13 minutes ago, Godless said:

I'm just not convinced of that. There's a rift, sure. But the leftist wing of the party knows that it can't survive politically without the rest of the party.

That’s where we differ. Like I’ve mentioned on many other issues, time will tell. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Godless
15 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Yes….and no. He’s called the “teflon Don” for a reason @Godless. Also, if his followers really turned on him over those issues than maybe they aren’t as cult like as you and I think they are-and yes, I do think Trumpers are members of a cult. 

A lot of them think Trump let himself be defeated by "the swamp", but they still admire what he stood for in the beginning and they want to finish what he started, with or without him.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/12/2022 at 12:46 PM, NeuroTypical said:

Imma go ahead and say Traveler is up in the night with his "100% controlled" claim.  Because there are plenty of folks with $50 grand to burn on the crossing, who end up owing nobody, and can get themselves a bus ticket to wherever they want to be after the coyotes are done with them.   And Mexico isn't the only border.  And there are water crossings.  And anyone in the situation above is one bus ticket away from the TCOs.

While I would agree that 100% definitely must be hyperbole or at least a rounded off estimate, I don't know how ridiculous it is.  I mean "I DON'T KNOW."

I've never been able to find statistics on how many are controlled/affected by the cartels.  I haven't found any consistent stats on how many are committing felonies when they get here. I haven't found much of anything.

How are we to make any kind of judgment on an issue when we really don't even know the facts?

If you have the facts that are "not significantly disputed per partisan ideology" I'd welcome reading them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share