Thoughts on ‘Under the Banner of Heaven’

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

The murders are portrayed mostly correct, but the writer replaces history with the distortions of the anti-Mormon murderer Dan Lafferty. This show, although attempting to portray an actual event, mixes in so much fiction that one cannot discern what really happened in history. Andrew Garfield said he spent weeks with Latter-day Saints, learning our ways, but his portrayal comes across as a slightly unhinged doubter of our faith, believing every distortion told to him by the murderers and their psychotic family.

I agree with his quote from the churches response to the book.

Quote

“This book is not history, and Krakauer is no historian. He is a storyteller who cuts corners to make the story sound good. His basic thesis appears to be that people who are religious are irrational, and that irrational people do strange things. He does a huge disservice to his readers by promulgating old stereotypes. He finds sufficient zealots and extremists in the past 150 years to help him tell his story, and by extrapolation tars every Mormon with the same brush. The exceptions are the rule by his standards. One could be forgiven for concluding that every Latter-day Saint, including your friendly Mormon neighbor, has a tendency to violence. And so Krakauer unwittingly puts himself in the same camp as those who believe every German is a Nazi, every Japanese a fanatic, and every Arab a terrorist.”

I would enjoy the show more if it had told the actual history of what happened instead of focusing on making a “good yarn.” I do not recommend this for anyone who is not aware of the falsehood mixed in with it.

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Emmanuel Goldstein

[LDSGator]

I think the author’s other book “Into Thin Air” is one of the greatest adventure books ever written. I read Banner when it came out, thought it was interesting, and moved on. I wasn’t aware there was a movie based on it? 

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

3 hours ago, LDSGator said:

I think the author’s other book “Into Thin Air” is one of the greatest adventure books ever written. I read Banner when it came out, thought it was interesting, and moved on. I wasn’t aware there was a movie based on it? 

It is a new tv show on Hulu.

[NeuroTypical]

In case anyone is new to Krakauer and Under the Banner of Heaven, here's a book review from the venerated FARMS review, January 2004:

Vol. 16 Num. 1 The FARMS Review.pdf - Page 183, "Doing Violence to Journalistic Integrity", Craig L. Foster.

Here are a few other links:
13 Things You Need to Know about FX’s ‘Under the Banner of Heaven’
Under the Banner of Old Tropes - Public Square Magazine
“Under the Banner of Heaven” Redux - FAIR

 

And in case anyone wants a brief window into the sorts of things Krakauer says about us, our church, and our history, here's some excerpts from an interview he gave to the Ghanian Chronicle in 2003.

Quote

According to Krakauer, "The Strengthening Committee is the KGB of the Mormon Church," and that "To gain an ID card to get into the temple, which is considered the entrance to heaven from earth, you will be called in for investigation. They check you pay your 10% tithe and are not having extra-marital or pre-marital sex. God forbid that you are gay. Then they will ask about you at the bookshop. "What has he been buying lately?"

Krakauer says, "Because Mormons believe there is a fixed number of souls and that by giving birth, you give them life, there is huge emphasis on having as many children as possible. The birth rate in Utah-the headquarters of the Mormon Church is higher than in Bangladesh. But boys and girls aren't allowed to meet, let alone flirt, so there is a lot of sex between siblings. There is also a lot of father-daughter sex. When sex is repressed, it erupts."

"I predict that the Mormon Church is going to face a sex abuse scandal every bit as serious as the Catholic Church," he says, adding, "Abuse against children has been going on since the beginning. Things are coming back to bite them in the arse."

Krauker intimated "There are incrementally higher rates of kidney failure because of in-breeding and the church sweeps it under the rug," "The Mormons are keen on genealogy and know about their genetic defects, but they have covered it up."

"Polygamy is what attracts the attention but it is racism, white supremacy, that is the real scandal," says Krakauer. "In some books sanctioned by the church, it is still suggested that black skin is a curse, the Mark of Cain."

Until he finds his next subject, Krakauer is following up an unfinished story, Under the Banner, of an American Mormon living in Mexico who is abusing each of his young daughters as they reach their 12th birthday.

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by NeuroTypical

[NeuroTypical]

Oh - and if anyone is gonna brave the explicit temple content and watch this thing - make sure you pay attention to the musical score.  All those deep basses, ominous, foreboding.  The same sort of music a good (or bad) horror movie uses.  I'm noticing the show even plays it when all the happy things are happening, like the cop's family breakfast getting ready for the daughter's baptism. 

Once you pay attention to the music, the show loses quite a bit of it's emotional power and sway.

Music, like font, makes a difference. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by NeuroTypical

[DMGNUT]

Wow... thanks for all the comments.

I was mildly interested in watching this show, but not at all interested now... sounds like this Krakauer, is a total Krack pot. And by the way, I'm thinking of a lot of different words to describe him, but this site doesn't allow them.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 4/29/2022 at 6:43 PM, NeuroTypical said:

Oh - and if anyone is gonna brave the explicit temple content and watch this thing - make sure you pay attention to the musical score.  All those deep basses, ominous, foreboding.  The same sort of music a good (or bad) horror movie uses.  I'm noticing the show even plays it when all the happy things are happening, like the cop's family breakfast getting ready for the daughter's baptism. 

Once you pay attention to the music, the show loses quite a bit of it's emotional power and sway.

Music, like font, makes a difference. 

100% Accurate.

[JohnsonJones]

I don't have a desire to watch it, but I also don't have a Hulu account to watch it.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 5/3/2022 at 2:59 PM, JohnsonJones said:

I don't have a desire to watch it, but I also don't have a Hulu account to watch it.

Yeah, after the first two episodes I realized it is a hit piece on the church, just like the book was. No thanks. 

[Ironhold]

To put it bluntly?

We, as a church, are among the last "acceptable targets". 

This means that both sides of the social and political divide feel that we're "fair game" for mockery, ridicule, disdain, and hit pieces. 

This show, and others that depict us in such a negative light, are a symptom of a greater disease. We're going to be dealing with this for some time to come.

[scottyg]

4 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

To put it bluntly?

We, as a church, are among the last "acceptable targets". 

This means that both sides of the social and political divide feel that we're "fair game" for mockery, ridicule, disdain, and hit pieces. 

This show, and others that depict us in such a negative light, are a symptom of a greater disease. We're going to be dealing with this for some time to come.

Yep. Attacks on the church and its members will increase in frequency and severity. Mocking from media is only the beginning, and some people even cave from that. If anyone thinks that "their side" will be aligned with the church in the days before the Lord returns they are fooling themselves.

[Vort]

18 minutes ago, scottyg said:

Yep. Attacks on the church and its members will increase in frequency and severity. Mocking from media is only the beginning, and some people even cave from that. If anyone thinks that "their side" will be aligned with the church in the days before the Lord returns they are fooling themselves.

 Let them rage. They cannot hurt the work of the Lord, only send themselves to hell.

[NeuroTypical]

Episode 3 has things getting patriarchical!  (At least, as seen through the eyes of Krakauer and company.)

1- As the trouble-makin' upstart woman one of the Lafferty boys married, starts arguing with her husband, all the brothers gang up on her to instruct her on minding her place, and calling her out on arguing with her priesthood holder after he'd made his mind up.  The other women in the room flee upstairs (good acting - they not only flee, they look bored at the same time, to convey this happens a lot).

2- As our hero, the youthful faithful cop, continues his dark slide into learning the horrible suppressed secrets of our faith's past, he is so troubled that he decides to postpone his twin daughters' baptism.  Wife freaks out more and more until our hero pulls rank: Saying he holds the priesthood so it's his decision, and he needs her support.  That ends it, she kicks off marital intimacy by reminding him that the priesthood may be his, but it's up to her to decide when it gets held. 

3- After the girls' baptism interview, our hero stays after for counsel from his Bishop and priesthood leader.  Bishop instructs him how to take care of his mother and her growing dementia, basically prescribing her antipsychotics and whatnot.   And bishop strongly commands him to stop looking into the church's past.  This is setting up a conflict between our hero's faith and his job as detective!

4- And all of the preceding 3 scenes have similar dark bassy horror-music soundtrack stuff happening in the background.  #3 is so faint it's almost undetectable.  If anyone missed it, go back and turn the volume up way loud.  It's right there - almost sounds like the sound of trucks in traffic.  Almost subliminal.  Quite effective.  I guess it can't be good patriarchy without ominous music to help manipulate the viewer's emotions.  Imma get some deep bass speakers to make my family PPIs more effective.  Or something. 

I wonder if we shouldn't just incorporate this article into our Handbook and teach it openly: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-the-hidden-sounds-of-horror-movie-soundtracks-freak-you-out

No really - put this vid on loop as you read this thread.  It's as if you're watching the show!

[There's also a lot of temple scenes I skipped through, sorry, I won't be able to say if the ominous soundtrack was present there too.]

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by NeuroTypical

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:32 PM, NeuroTypical said:

Episode. . .

. . .[There's also a lot of temple scenes I skipped through, sorry, I won't be able to say if the ominous soundtrack was present there too.]

 

The temple scene begins in the endowment room with the new wife being teased by her soon to be sister in laws about the washing and anointing. They also are chattering like chickens about the ceremony while being reprimanded with scowls from the matron. I don't know about anyone else, but I have never heard chattering like that in the endowment room. They also seem pretty intent on getting the robes correct and showing the covenants, etc. They want to appear open about the temple stuff, but they are just setting up the viewer to believe the lies to come.

There is also a implication of black robes and the Danites being a secret group of enforcers in the church. If my bishop acted like that in an interview with me I would be seeking a new ward and reporting him to the Stake President ASAP. This show is very duplicitous and I am now going to be watching in order to pick it apart for the anti-Latter-day Saint garbage that it is. I don't blame the actors, I blame the producers, writers and directors.