It appears Roe Vs. Wade is about to be overturned.


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One of my dearest friends got married this weekend and I was in South Dakota with them to celebrate and serve as best man.
 

It’s an uber-Catholic community (descriptive, not an insult) and this was a major topic of conversation throughout the day. Putting everything aside, we still don't know what the opinion will say. We should wait until then to start celebrating or crying. 
 

Off topic-we drove straight up from Florida. We passed at least three LDS temples. St. Louis, one more I forgot, and the Bentonville one being built. Very cool!

Edited by LDSGator
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2 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

A center? I'm hearing reports of multiple centers being hit. 

I haven't heard of others.  But this "organization" had one center vandalized a while ago.  And now they had this arson event.

What were the others you heard about?

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2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I haven't heard of others.  But this "organization" had one center vandalized a while ago.  And now they had this arson event.

What were the others you heard about?

There are multiple reports flying around on different social media platforms, and I haven't had a chance yet to see if it's the same report redone or multiple facilities. 

But it seems a counter-narrative is forming claiming that the "pro-abortion" crowd is willing to engage in violence, and so people need to watch out. 

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23 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

There are multiple reports flying around on different social media platforms, and I haven't had a chance yet to see if it's the same report redone or multiple facilities. 

But it seems a counter-narrative is forming claiming that the "pro-abortion" crowd is willing to engage in violence, and so people need to watch out. 

https://local12.com/news/nation-world/police-believe-fire-at-pro-life-building-was-targeted-arson-madison-wisconsin-sunday-fire-blaze-structure-chief-police-shon-barnes-family-action-abortion-pro-life-pro-choice-incident-cincinnati-ohio

Here's one in Wisconsin -- about a month ago.

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14 minutes ago, Vort said:

How utterly unintuitive.

Basically, we're at the point where both sides are getting into propaganda campaigns, and those campaigns are getting to the point where they're all but encouraging violence against the other side.

That's never a good thing. 

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32 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Basically, we're at the point where both sides are getting into propaganda campaigns, and those campaigns are getting to the point where they're all but encouraging violence against the other side.

That's never a good thing. 

The difference is that the left will close their eyes and pretend their violence either doesn’t exist or is “the right kind of violence” while the right generally condemns violent conservatives. Ignore the Trumpers, who are right now trying to downplay or dismiss the Jan 6th riots. They are not true conservatives. 

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29 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Define downplay.

Sure. Most Trumpers are STILL trying to defend the God/Lord/Emperor Trump and pretend that Jan 6th panel is a conspiracy out to get their man. Instead of blaming Trump, they blame the “disloyal” Pence, Barr, etc for not waving a magic wand and putting Trump back in office. It’s creepy. The Obamabots scared me with their cult like devotion to Obama. They still do. The Trumpers really scare me. 

Edited by LDSGator
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Not happy with the uptick of dozens of such things happening, almost daily now in this nation.

Here's a list someone tries to keep updated, with links to sources:  https://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF22F17.pdf?fbclid=IwAR11XG0QPqGMPrxFoG2U-wgu4D__TPKt48f217ULDAC_bSVf_CILNjE4T2Q

 

 

65026b7e328f327f0031aae187c5a860fe94d21c.png

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On 6/13/2022 at 4:25 PM, LDSGator said:

Sure. Most Trumpers are STILL trying to defend the God/Lord/Emperor Trump and pretend that Jan 6th panel is a conspiracy out to get their man. Instead of blaming Trump, they blame the “disloyal” Pence, Barr, etc for not waving a magic wand and putting Trump back in office. It’s creepy. The Obamabots scared me with their cult like devotion to Obama. They still do. The Trumpers really scare me. 

I agree with nearly all of this; but write separately to note that what happened on January 6 was a mob, not an insurrection.  The perpetrators, IMHO, ought to have been horsewhipped, and I’ll even go so far as to say that Ashli Babbitt’s shooting was most likely justified and it seems to me that she basically earned herself a Darwin Award.

Nevertheless, there is a difference between a mob and an insurrection; and that difference is being deliberately blurred for political reasons.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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12 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

seems to me that she basically earned herself a Darwin Award.

 

She did, but I blame Trump more than her. She was an innocent dupe, Trump has far more moral accountability. 
 

His hardcore supporters are too obtuse to see that they are getting manipulated like sock puppets. Trump knows full well what buttons to press in order to get his troops to sit, beg, stand, roll over, etc.  His hardcore supporters can’t be expected to disobey their master. 

Edited by LDSGator
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42 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

She did, but I blame Trump more than her. She was an innocent dupe, Trump has far more moral accountability. 
 

His hardcore supporters are too obtuse to see that they are getting manipulated like sock puppets. Trump knows full well what buttons to press in order to get his troops to sit, beg, stand, roll over, etc.  His hardcore supporters can’t be expected to disobey their master. 

I am not a diehard Trump supporter - but I did like that Trump is not a politician - especially out of the mold of modern politicians.  I do not like the corporate, I am the blessed in charge attitude of Trump and other such type in politics (like Romney).  There is one person in politics (but not in politics any more) that I would support - Trey Gowdy. 

What is obvious to me is that as bad as Trump has treated those in government and media around him - those in government and media around him have treated him and his supporters much worse.  Let me provide example in Carter Page and General Flinn.   Carter Page was bankrupt as an example of how the "establishment" treats Trump supporters.  He was innocent.    General Flinn was convicted of lying to the FBI and his career was ruined but what was the lie he was convicted of?  He said he did not remember meeting with a particular official in the Russian government - which BTW was not illegal for him to have met with.  What has happened to those that financed an put together the Steele Dossier, lied to the FBI about its validity, lied before a FISA judge, held congressional hearings, openly lied to the citizens of the USA about what was taking place in secret hearings and deliberately leaking classified government documents to slander political opponents.

I do not think the supporters of Trump are being treated properly (justly or ideologically) - especially by those that do not care for Trump.  It appears to me many have been held as political prisoners for months without charges - I would like to know for sure.   The funny guy with the makeup and silly hat with horns - I believe he was stupid and guilty of being manipulated like a sock puppet but not so much by trump but by government individuals opposing Trump.  If that guy was the example of what Trump was setting up to overthrow our democracy - we really do not have any reason to fear Trump.   I believe it was possible that the "mob" was at least in part encouraged to storm the capitol by operatives opposing Trump.  One thing for sure - If there was any notion that Trump was up to no good - which BTW the Democrats have been saying for years then the Democrats should have been better prepared and had the capitol police better equipped and backed up in the ready.  There is a claim that the only person killed in the capitol riot was trying to calm down protesters - but we will not know because there has been no real investigation where both sides in adversarial argument have presented their witnesses.  Why hasn't this happened????

I have been politically active in my past life.  I know for a fact that voter fraud is common in both parties at all levels of elections.  It is why I refuse to register with any party.  Even from the surface fraud is obvious.  We will never know how deep the fraud goes until we do a complete and thorough investigation.   I am sure such an investigation would not be as costly or as difficult as all the fuss over the Steele Dossier.  It is interesting to me that there is such powerful opposition to not investigate voter fraud with the excuse that such an investigation would cause voters to not be confident in the voting process.  Why is that even an argument????  Just thinking about that argument scares me.

It is my view that things are so screwed up in our government - I really do not know where to look - especially concerning our two major parties.  But I do believe that we are somewhat a free country and we are, at least to some degree, getting from our government what we vote for (as party members), stand for and deserve.  

One last note concerning voter fraud - it will get worse, especially if there are not tighter controls of chain of custody and insurance that vote counting is never initiated in any district until all legal votes to be counted are received and accounted for by both party witnesses with absolutely no possibility to add even a single vote; regardless of even if it is a valid vote.  Then we may have a chance until the dark elements of ether party find a loop hole.   Unlike all things in our justice system - I believe that we should assume voter fraud unless proven in open investigations otherwise.  We ought to be more vigilant over voting (including campaigns) than any other government related process or at least as much.

 

The Traveler

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Just now, Traveler said:

I am not a diehard Trump supporter - but I did like that Trump is not a politician - especially out of the mold of modern politicians.  I do not like the corporate, I am the blessed in charge attitude of Trump and other such type in politics (like Romney).  There is one person in politics (but not in politics any more) that I would support - Trey Gowdy. 

What is obvious to me is that as bad as Trump has treated those in government and media around him - those in government and media around him have treated him and his supporters much worse.  Let me provide example in Carter Page and General Flinn.   Carter Page was bankrupt as an example of how the "establishment" treats Trump supporters.  He was innocent.    General Flinn was convicted of lying to the FBI and his career was ruined but what was the lie he was convicted of?  He said he did not remember meeting with a particular official in the Russian government - which BTW was not illegal for him to have met with.  What has happened to those that financed an put together the Steele Dossier, lied to the FBI about its validity, lied before a FISA judge, held congressional hearings, openly lied to the citizens of the USA about what was taking place in secret hearings and deliberately leaking classified government documents to slander political opponents.

I do not think the supporters of Trump are being treated properly (justly or ideologically) - especially by those that do not care for Trump.  It appears to me many have been held as political prisoners for months without charges - I would like to know for sure.   The funny guy with the makeup and silly hat with horns - I believe he was stupid and guilty of being manipulated like a sock puppet but not so much by trump but by government individuals opposing Trump.  If that guy was the example of what Trump was setting up to overthrow our democracy - we really do not have any reason to fear Trump.   I believe it was possible that the "mob" was at least in part encouraged to storm the capitol by operatives opposing Trump.  One thing for sure - If there was any notion that Trump was up to no good - which BTW the Democrats have been saying for years then the Democrats should have been better prepared and had the capitol police better equipped and backed up in the ready.  There is a claim that the only person killed in the capitol riot was trying to calm down protesters - but we will not know because there has been no real investigation where both sides in adversarial argument have presented their witnesses.  Why hasn't this happened????

I have been politically active in my past life.  I know for a fact that voter fraud is common in both parties at all levels of elections.  It is why I refuse to register with any party.  Even from the surface fraud is obvious.  We will never know how deep the fraud goes until we do a complete and thorough investigation.   I am sure such an investigation would not be as costly or as difficult as all the fuss over the Steele Dossier.  It is interesting to me that there is such powerful opposition to not investigate voter fraud with the excuse that such an investigation would cause voters to not be confident in the voting process.  Why is that even an argument????  Just thinking about that argument scares me.

It is my view that things are so screwed up in our government - I really do not know where to look - especially concerning our two major parties.  But I do believe that we are somewhat a free country and we are, at least to some degree, getting from our government what we vote for (as party members), stand for and deserve.  

One last note concerning voter fraud - it will get worse, especially if there are not tighter controls of chain of custody and insurance that vote counting is never initiated in any district until all legal votes to be counted are received and accounted for by both party witnesses with absolutely no possibility to add even a single vote; regardless of even if it is a valid vote.  Then we may have a chance until the dark elements of ether party find a loop hole.   Unlike all things in our justice system - I believe that we should assume voter fraud unless proven in open investigations otherwise.  We ought to be more vigilant over voting (including campaigns) than any other government related process or at least as much.

 

The Traveler

 

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41 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I do not think the supporters of Trump are being treated properly (justly or ideologically) -

I understand that @Traveler, and while I don’t agree with you, there’s a small degree of truth here. Yes, the MSM does look down on Trumpers. 
 

Now, having said that, let me caution you about a few things. One, every political junkie plays the “Oh, no one likes us” card. It makes them feel like persecuted martyrs and provides them with an unearned noble feeling. So they can pat themselves on the back and feel better than everyone else. I know I’ve said it before, but it‘S because I think it's 100% accurate. 
 

Next, hardcore Trump supporters are, for the most part, easily the most abrasive and angriest people out there. So it’s hard to have sympathy for them when they spend their time screaming in rage towards anyone who does not blindly worship their man. Maybe their terrible attitudes are the problem? Maybe? 
 

But yes, you are correct. Slightly. 

Edited by LDSGator
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2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

@pam

I'm seeing tell-tale signs from several posters (including me) that indicates a distinct tendency to "self-quote" when trying to edit their post.  Just an FYI.

Do you mean they are quoting when trying to edit?  Because I've tried it and it lets me edit.

 

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4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

@pam

I'm seeing tell-tale signs from several posters (including me) that indicates a distinct tendency to "self-quote" when trying to edit their post.  Just an FYI.

Guilty as charged.

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On 6/17/2022 at 10:49 AM, LDSGator said:

.....

 

Next, hardcore Trump supporters are, for the most part, easily the most abrasive and angriest people out there. So it’s hard to have sympathy for them when they spend their time screaming in rage towards anyone who does not blindly worship their man. Maybe their terrible attitudes are the problem? Maybe? 
 

But yes, you are correct. Slightly. 

Pointing to some as a justification of how all are treated and viewed has a number of official terms including - Gaslighting, prejudice and propaganda.

 

The Traveler

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3 hours ago, Traveler said:

Pointing to some as a justification of how all are treated and viewed has a number of official terms including - Gaslighting, prejudice and propaganda.

 

The Traveler

So….do you feel the same way about the LGBTQ community? BLM supportersPeople with tattoos? Or is it just poor little Trumpers who are now the innocent victims? 

Are all Trumpers mean and nasty people? Of course not. But if you are known by the company you keep, then yes, it’s safe to say the Trump community deserves their reputation. At least partially. They made their own bed, for the most part.

The Trumpers bother me more than anything else because they made it easier for traditional conservatives to be painted as angry, unpleasant, and nasty. I know way too many conservatives who are wonderful people. 

I feel bad for the hardcore Trumpers who don’t scream in rage at you if you disagree with their man. Hopefully both of them know each other. 

Edited by LDSGator
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So, we're apparently up to 28 attacks

https://catholicvote.org/pregnancy-center-attack-tracker/

Oh, but don't worry, these are only isolated incidents.  It's not like it is encouraged by political rhetoric.

Quote

“This is the United States of America, where freedom and liberty are supposed to mean something...It’s the rock upon which we were founded. It’s supposed to mean something except in the eyes of some Neanderthals, who think women are not entitled to those rights.”

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/new-york-elections-government/ny-gov-hochul-abortion-legal-protections-out-of-state-roe-v-wade-20220613-mp6zn3ecwnbm3etdbl7l35jily-story.html

Nothing to see here.  

I wonder... 28 across a country as big as ours may not be the panic moment some take it to be.  What number will it take before it is a trend?  When does it become terrorism?  How many before it isn't just "isolated"?

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3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

So, we're apparently up to 28 attacks

https://catholicvote.org/pregnancy-center-attack-tracker/

Oh, but don't worry, these are only isolated incidents.  It's not like it is encouraged by political rhetoric.

Nothing to see here.  

I wonder... 28 across a country as big as ours may not be the panic moment some take it to be.  What number will it take before it is a trend?  When does it become terrorism?  How many before it isn't just "isolated"?

It depends upon each person's individual narrative. 

For example, the other day a political cartoonist did a cartoon talking about all of the instances of left-wing violence over the last few years. People were screaming and otherwise losing control because they'd either never heard of any incidents of left-wing violence or were in denial that such incidents had happened. As far as they were concerned, only right-wing groups were engaging in violence. 

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