Going home again?

[Ironhold]

17 hours ago, MrShorty said:

But what about the economies that make this kind of difference?

I recall a few years ago (as many in my family were in various locations around Texas) looking at house prices in Texas compared to Utah. At that time, what I noticed was that, while the official "listing" price was a bit lower than in Utah, the overall mortgage payment (after insurance and property tax) wasn't that different (mostly due to Texas's higher property tax rates that offset the absence of any income tax). My thinking then was that the lower "valuations" were at least in part because people needed more for taxes than I did.

Now, though, as house prices around here climb wildly, I cannot understand what Utah (and Idaho and other states here in the west) have that other places in the country do not that drives such high prices (mostly because demand is very high). Some say that it is driven by Californians who are able to buy bigger houses here than they leave behind in Ca, but then why not consider other places farther east where you can get even more house for the money than you can in some of our western states? Some say it is because they want to stay in the west, but I don't know.

Maybe there's another tax incentive to buy an expensive house. As I understand it, if I sell my house (and I would make a sizeable profit compared to what I payed for it), and fail to reinvest all of that money in another house, then I would be subject to income tax on the profits from selling my house.

If it isn't obvious, I have no idea what I am talking about, but it seems like among the economic forces at play should be some kind of, "I can buy house x in Utah for 0.5 million or the same house in Tx for 0.25 million. I should buy the house in Tx rather than Ut." kind of logic that should lower demand in highly expensive states and increase demand in lower cost states. But that doesn't seem to be happening, so what other economic considerations are driving this? Jobs? Are we really saying that economies of these places are so depressed that no one can find work? Is it a tax burden issue? Other elements in the cost of living that offset the savings in housing costs? I agree it's about the local economies, but what?

Utah has a lot of issues that are restricting the amount of land that's ultimately available for developers, and that's making the cost of the land itself go up regardless of what it's being used for. Utah also has more complicated issues with distribution that can make it harder for goods produced outside of the state to circulate, further driving the price up. Throw in the surging population as people head to Utah from elsewhere (be it companies seeking regional headquarters facilities, families seeking the mountain air, or folks fleeing California), and you've got the cost of living edging ever upward. 

Even in 1994, when I was a kid in Utah on vacation, I noticed how much higher the prices of certain goods were. For example, most of the toys I was in to were about 20% to 25% more expensive, such as a Micro Machines play set I priced for $8 in my part of Texas going for $10 there. 

As far as Texas goes, it's a mix of factors. There's more land for development once you get outside of the major cities, helping to drive the cost of living down. Many areas also have economies where the bulk of the jobs pay at or slightly lower than national average, and so retailers don't charge as much and generally carry cheaper products on their shelves. Folks in a lot of these areas also tend towards doing more with less, reducing the demand for certain types of durable goods while increasing demand for others or the means to fix what they have. Throw in the lack of a state income tax and a legal climate that's overall more friendly for businesses than in many other states [1] and depending upon where in Texas you come to you can find that, overall, you can live here a little more cheaply if you're willing to do some give-and-take.

 

[1] As an example of this? A few years ago, controversial entertainment industry critic Richard C. Meyer launched a crowd-funding campaign to produce his own comic book. He only intended an ashcan-level run so he could establish copyright and say he published something, but so many people flooded the campaign his profit margins enabled him to subsidize a full retail-level print run *on top of* what he'd need to satisfy his backers. Thus, he struck a deal with indie publisher Antarctic Press to print the book.

Mark Waid, a comic book industry veteran, had been feuding with Meyer on social media and so reacted to the news of the publishing deal by posting inflammatory remarks online and declaring his intentions to contact Antarctic personally. He did in fact call them up, and within a few hours Antarctic cancelled the deal.

Thing is, Antarctic is located in San Antonio, and at the time Meyer was based in Austin. This meant that their deal was subject to Texas state business law, and under Texas' hyper-strict "tortious interference" laws Waid was prima facie *guilty* since he said he was going to get the company to cancel the deal. Oh, and since Waid is a legal resident of California, that meant it was an inter-state dispute and would now be heard by a *federal* judge even though the matter would involve Texas state law.

Waid's legal team drug the case out for the better part of 3 years, during which time most of his allies abandoned him lest they get caught up in matters as well. Meyer and Waid eventually settled out of court, and so far as I know Waid's never so much as mentioned Meyer again. 

[MrShorty]

I understand that there are differences between Utah and Texas (and lots of other places in the country). The thing that I don't understand is why someone would say, "I would rather spend twice as much for the same house and live in Utah than spend half as much for the same house and live in Texas (or other place where housing is much cheaper)." I realize that these economic decisions are a lot more complex than just how much a house costs, but a house is a major cost, so what things offset the currently much higher housing costs of living in Utah and other western states?

[Still_Small_Voice]

I like Utah, but one of the biggest reasons I do not like it is we are running out of water.  There are too many people living here now and not enough water.  Reservoirs are being drained faster than they are being filled.  This is a dry State.  We are likely leaving and moving to another free State east of the Rocky Mountains in the next few years.

Las Vegas, Nevada is in some serious trouble.  Far too many people living there and not nearly enough water.

[Traveler]

4 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

I like Utah, but one of the biggest reasons I do not like it is we are running out of water.  There are too many people living here now and not enough water.  Reservoirs are being drained faster than they are being filled.  This is a dry State.  We are likely leaving and moving to another free State east of the Rocky Mountains in the next few years.

Las Vegas, Nevada is in some serious trouble.  Far too many people living there and not nearly enough water.

We could have what water we do have go much farther if we would recycle water and limit the use of water on gulf courses. 

I have speculated that if we can decrease rainfall by cutting down trees (example being the cutting down of trees in a rain forest) that if we keep planting trees in Utah that it is possible that rain fall will increase and the desert will blossom as a rose.  I am not sure how the west will correspond to the saints gathering during the millennium.  It is my plan to continue to ski in Utah during the millennium.

As a side note - dry farmers in the western USA say that because of the limited snowfall in the west this water year that wheat supply will be low.  Couple this with what is going on in India, Ukraine, Russia and other suppliers of wheat - This next year there could be critical shortages of wheat - meaning starvation of large populations  are possible.  I have pondered what will happen to the poor if the more wealthy societies value feeding their pets more that keeping the poor of humanity from starving.   Just as a note here - Brother Nibley believe that the sins of Gomorrah was that they valued other things more than or equal to; human life.

 

The Traveler

Edited June 6, 2022 by Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

4 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

I like Utah, but one of the biggest reasons I do not like it is we are running out of water.  There are too many people living here now and not enough water.  Reservoirs are being drained faster than they are being filled.  This is a dry State.

Perspective and historical data is important on this subject.

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/historical-perspective-drought

 

[Backroads]

On 5/30/2022 at 6:08 PM, Vort said:

How big is the house? $135,500 sounds dirt cheap to my Seattle ears.

Paid less than that 8 years ago for my little house. Currently it's valued at over 400 grand. Apparently I like in an overvalued market. 

I have had a few friends and relatives over the years migrate back to the southeast. Friend bought a gazillion acres for under 200 grand last year. A literal gazillion.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Backroads

[Vort]

3 hours ago, Backroads said:

A literal gazillion

Now is that more or less than a Brazilian?

[Backroads]

20 hours ago, Vort said:

Now is that more or less than a Brazilian?

10% more, but not as painful.

[Carborendum]

12 minutes ago, Backroads said:

10% more, but not as painful.

Did our sweet, innocent Backroads actually say that?