The Millennium


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In reading in the Gospel Doctrine Student Manual I read some quotes of modern prophets that got me thinking about what the Millennium will be like. I thought I'd quote a few of them here with the question they evoked. I recognize that these quotes may not represent official doctrine of the Church.

“The time for the Second Coming of Christ is as fixed and certain as was the hour of his birth. It will not vary as much as a single second from the divine decree. He will come at the appointed time. The Millennium will not be ushered in prematurely because men turn to righteousness, nor will it be delayed because iniquity abounds. Nephi was able to state with absolute certainty that the God of Israel would come ‘in six hundred years from the time my father left Jerusalem.’ (1 Ne. 19:8.) To a later Nephi the Divine Voice acclaimed: ‘The time is at hand, and on this night shall the sign be given, and on the morrow come I into the world.’ (3 Ne. 1:13.)” (Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah, 26–27).

Obviously God’s omniscience allows Him to know in advance exactly when the Second Coming will take place. But McConkie seems to be teaching that that time is in no way impacted by the conditions of the world. And while I don’t have any specific quotes, it seems like it has been at least implied in the past that the Savior will come once we are ready and prepared for him, generally speaking and not individually. Is that not the impression other’s have had or am I just in left field on this?

 

“When the reign of Jesus Christ comes during the millennium, only those who have lived the telestial law will be removed. The earth will be cleansed of all its corruption and wickedness. Those who have lived virtuous lives, who have been honest in their dealings with their fellow man and have endeavored to do good to the best of their understanding, shall remain” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:62).

Does this imply that some of those who live during the millennium may only inherit the Terrestrial Kingdom because only Telestial law abiders are removed?

 

“It shall be in that day that the lion shall lie down with the lamb and eat straw as the ox, and all fear, hatred, and enmity shall depart from the earth because all things having hate in their hearts shall pass away; and there shall come a change, a change over men, a change over the beasts of the field, and upon all things living upon the face of the earth.

“According to this word I have read there shall be harmony, and love, and peace, and righteousness because Satan is bound that he cannot tempt any man, and that will be the condition that shall be upon the earth for 1,000 years” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:58).

Is this implying that the natural man will not exist within us during the Millennium?

And will, for example, those who currently experience same sex attraction have their natural feelings restored to their correct order?

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"But McConkie seems to be teaching that that time is in no way impacted by the conditions of the world"

Sounds pretty odd. The parable of the wheat and the tares would strongly indicate that the growing polarization between the gospel and the world is a factor for the second coming

"Does this imply that some of those who live during the millennium may only inherit the Terrestrial Kingdom because only Telestial law abiders are removed?"

There will be both celestial and terrestrial inheritors in the millennial kingdom

"Is this implying that the natural man will not exist within us during the Millennium?"

Since we who are not dead still have mortal bodies in the millennium, I'm pretty sure the natural man still exists, especially considering there will be a variety of people there. Just a guess, but perhaps people worthy of the celestial and terrestrial kingdom are more resistant to the natural man than telestials when Satan is not there to whisper in their ears?

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23 hours ago, laronius said:

In reading in the Gospel Doctrine Student Manual I read some quotes of modern prophets that got me thinking about what the Millennium will be like. I thought I'd quote a few of them here with the question they evoked. I recognize that these quotes may not represent official doctrine of the Church.

“The time for the Second Coming of Christ is as fixed and certain as was the hour of his birth. It will not vary as much as a single second from the divine decree. He will come at the appointed time. The Millennium will not be ushered in prematurely because men turn to righteousness, nor will it be delayed because iniquity abounds. Nephi was able to state with absolute certainty that the God of Israel would come ‘in six hundred years from the time my father left Jerusalem.’ (1 Ne. 19:8.) To a later Nephi the Divine Voice acclaimed: ‘The time is at hand, and on this night shall the sign be given, and on the morrow come I into the world.’ (3 Ne. 1:13.)” (Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah, 26–27).

Obviously God’s omniscience allows Him to know in advance exactly when the Second Coming will take place. But McConkie seems to be teaching that that time is in no way impacted by the conditions of the world. And while I don’t have any specific quotes, it seems like it has been at least implied in the past that the Savior will come once we are ready and prepared for him, generally speaking and not individually. Is that not the impression other’s have had or am I just in left field on this?

 

“When the reign of Jesus Christ comes during the millennium, only those who have lived the telestial law will be removed. The earth will be cleansed of all its corruption and wickedness. Those who have lived virtuous lives, who have been honest in their dealings with their fellow man and have endeavored to do good to the best of their understanding, shall remain” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:62).

Does this imply that some of those who live during the millennium may only inherit the Terrestrial Kingdom because only Telestial law abiders are removed?

 

“It shall be in that day that the lion shall lie down with the lamb and eat straw as the ox, and all fear, hatred, and enmity shall depart from the earth because all things having hate in their hearts shall pass away; and there shall come a change, a change over men, a change over the beasts of the field, and upon all things living upon the face of the earth.

“According to this word I have read there shall be harmony, and love, and peace, and righteousness because Satan is bound that he cannot tempt any man, and that will be the condition that shall be upon the earth for 1,000 years” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:58).

Is this implying that the natural man will not exist within us during the Millennium?

And will, for example, those who currently experience same sex attraction have their natural feelings restored to their correct order?

As long as there is agency, we have the natural man to deal with until we do what it takes to attain the fulness of the stature of Christ, including the mastery of all our feelings.

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11 hours ago, CV75 said:

As long as there is agency, we have the natural man to deal with until we do what it takes to attain the fulness of the stature of Christ, including the mastery of all our feelings.

I guess what I was thinking about is that if the natural man did not come into being until the fall and with the Millennium being a somewhat pre-fall status I was wondering what do we carry over with us. Of course it's not entirely like the Garden of Eden.

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On 6/11/2022 at 9:42 AM, laronius said:

In reading in the Gospel Doctrine Student Manual I read some quotes of modern prophets that got me thinking about what the Millennium will be like. I thought I'd quote a few of them Obviously God’s omniscience allows Him to know in advance exactly when the Second Coming will take place. But McConkie seems to be teaching that that time is in no way impacted by the conditions of the world. And while I don’t have any specific quotes, it seems like it has been at least implied in the past that the Savior will come once we are ready and prepared for him, generally speaking and not individually. Is that not the impression other’s have had or am I just in left field on this?

In my studies, both teachings are correct. At least for me, I separate the conditions of the world from the righteousness of the Saints. The conditions of the world do not need to meet any standard for the Lord to come the second time. God's kingdom/Church, on the other hand, will need to have a people ready to receive him.

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Does this imply that some of those who live during the millennium may only inherit the Terrestrial Kingdom because only Telestial law abiders are removed?

Yes. Not everyone in the Millennium will be members of God's kingdom/Church. I believe there will be Atheists who may not believe in God, but recognized the safety that will be among the Saints before Christ comes. They will honor the laws/rules of this body of people. There will be good Christians, Muslims, Hindu's, and many other people who live "good enough" lives to be spared. As God doesn't force anyone to accept or believe his strait and narrow path, this means they will die according to their beliefs but will have lived a Terrestrial law, thus receiving a terrestrial body/glory.

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Is this implying that the natural man will not exist within us during the Millennium?

And will, for example, those who currently experience same sex attraction have their natural feelings restored to their correct order?

I think this is the type of question that creates a conundrum of sorts. Sorta like when growing up my Christian friend would ask me, "If God is all powerful could he make a rock that he can't destroy"?

Does "evil" stop existing because God is perfect? Yes and no, I suppose. If God always chooses "good" and never would choose evil, then ultimately "evil" doesn't exist -- and yet evil does exist -- it is simply no longer present.

In the Millennium, I am thinking there is to some degree "the natural man" because not everyone will "choose" the strait and narrow path.  If the Millennium were the "Celestial" law and kingdom, then the natural man would not exist (paragraph above).

Yes, as to same sex attraction -- in time. The mortal body will be perfect, thus any deviation from that (any ideology of the world) will be resolved.  At the same time, it may not be because same sex attraction is a choice (I understand the world doesn't like this thought -- it tells them to behave and control their thoughts), and any choice could remain. The difference in this place no one will be raising a "rainbow" flag -- a telestial ideology.

Edited by Anddenex
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My hope is that when the millennium does come - I will have the opportunity to experience what it will be like.  I speculate that there will be no sickness or pain.  I wonder what we will eat and if we will breath oxygen or bleed. 

 

The Traveler

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On 6/12/2022 at 10:36 PM, laronius said:

I guess what I was thinking about is that if the natural man did not come into being until the fall and with the Millennium being a somewhat pre-fall status I was wondering what do we carry over with us. Of course it's not entirely like the Garden of Eden.

I think that is the crux; the Millennium is not entirely like Eden. There will still be death; we will have scripture and prophecy (which Adam and Eve did not have in Eden); family histories and traditions with associated multiplicities of ways of life other than Zion; the dispensation of the fulness of times; the doctrines, covenants and ordinances of the Gospel; and so forth.

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On 6/12/2022 at 9:56 PM, Traveler said:

My hope is that when the millennium does come - I will have the opportunity to experience what it will be like.  I speculate that there will be no sickness or pain.  I wonder what we will eat and if we will breath oxygen or bleed. 

 

The Traveler

i suspect we will not eat very much meat. Probably a vegetable and fruit diet. we will still breath and bleed in the millenium.

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37 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I think that is the crux; the Millennium is not entirely like Eden. There will still be death; we will have scripture and prophecy (which Adam and Eve did not have in Eden); family histories and traditions with associated multiplicities of ways of life other than Zion; the dispensation of the fulness of times; the doctrines, covenants and ordinances of the Gospel; and so forth.

The question is - are the differences you are highlighting significant?  I personally do not know that much about either - so I cannot qualify for any answer.  Eye color may be different but the functions of the eye are not effected enough to worry about.  Another question - what would be the purpose of scripture and prophecy if everybody had direct access themselves to the information and spiritual connections they reference?  If we understand D&C 132 - what possible family histories, traditions, associations and other possibilities could there be that are not directly a part of Zion?  I have speculated that in our pre-existence we had understanding (knowledge) of how family histories and traditions would play out in mortality.  That we do not learn so much of such things in this life but rather we come to remembrances.

As to the natural man - I believe it will always be with us but that light and truth will subdue it - if it is subdued.

 

The Traveler

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2 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

i suspect we will not eat very much meat. Probably a vegetable and fruit diet. we will still breath and bleed in the millenium.

I do not know.  But I speculate that there are other ways to have meat (grown by itself under needed conditions) without killing any animals.  I have also speculated that as the earth is changed from a telestial to terrestial state that life as we think we know it may not be reliant on oxygen and that blood would become a more spiritual fluid that would not bleed.  But if challenged - I really do not know - just that I speculate it is possible. 

 

The Traveler

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2 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I do not know.  But I speculate that there are other ways to have meat (grown by itself under needed conditions) without killing any animals.  I have also speculated that as the earth is changed from a telestial to terrestial state that life as we think we know it may not be reliant on oxygen and that blood would become a more spiritual fluid that would not bleed.  But if challenged - I really do not know - just that I speculate it is possible. 

 

The Traveler

When we are resurrected our bodies will change, but during the millennium everyone will still be mortal; they will age and die when they are old. I think that funeral homes will go out of business though, when someone dies they will resurrect immediately. I hope I get to see it, but I suspect most of us will have died by the time of the second coming of Christ.

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9 minutes ago, Traveler said:

But I speculate that there are other ways to have meat (grown by itself under needed conditions) without killing any animals.

I guess I will be going vegetarian then. I for one will not eat meat grown out of a petri dish. 🤮

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

The question is - are the differences you are highlighting significant?  I personally do not know that much about either - so I cannot qualify for any answer.  Eye color may be different but the functions of the eye are not effected enough to worry about.  Another question - what would be the purpose of scripture and prophecy if everybody had direct access themselves to the information and spiritual connections they reference?  If we understand D&C 132 - what possible family histories, traditions, associations and other possibilities could there be that are not directly a part of Zion?  I have speculated that in our pre-existence we had understanding (knowledge) of how family histories and traditions would play out in mortality.  That we do not learn so much of such things in this life but rather we come to remembrances.

As to the natural man - I believe it will always be with us but that light and truth will subdue it - if it is subdued.

 

The Traveler

Given the emphasis placed on the Creation, the Fall, the Atonement of Christ, His Second Coming, Final Judgement and the estates and kingdoms along the plan of happiness, yes, I would say the kinds of differences I pointed out are significant. Adam and Eve’s experience in Eden is different from that of their posterity born in the Millennium (any similarities notwithstanding). Their experience entering the fallen world and building a “Zion” community was also very different from their experience in Eden.

My conceptualization of the Millennium is that the Lord will use scriptures, prophecy and family history among other things to reign in a way that helps repentant people receive and progress along the covenant path. While it will be a much better temporal and spiritual environment than that in which we now live, not everyone will be born in Zion or use their agency to join or remain there. The principles and practices of the Gospel as restored throughout the dispensation of the fulness of times will continue to apply, and none but a very few of these principles and practices ever applied in Eden.

Edited by CV75
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On 6/14/2022 at 10:21 AM, CV75 said:

Given the emphasis placed on the Creation, the Fall, the Atonement of Christ, His Second Coming, Final Judgement and the estates and kingdoms along the plan of happiness, yes, I would say the kinds of differences I pointed out are significant. Adam and Eve’s experience in Eden is different from that of their posterity born in the Millennium (any similarities notwithstanding). Their experience entering the fallen world and building a “Zion” community was also very different from their experience in Eden.

My conceptualization of the Millennium is that the Lord will use scriptures, prophecy and family history among other things to reign in a way that helps repentant people receive and progress along the covenant path. While it will be a much better temporal and spiritual environment than that in which we now live, not everyone will be born in Zion or use their agency to join or remain there. The principles and practices of the Gospel as restored throughout the dispensation of the fulness of times will continue to apply, and none but a very few of these principles and practices ever applied in Eden.

I have thought to respond - not so much to disagree but of offer some "different" perspectives.   We think of Eden as a specific place - but perhaps we should think of it as more of a type or kind of place - more along the lines of principles and glory.  In reference to glory, Eden is also known as 'Paradise" or the paradise of G-d.  With this in mind let us look at scripture - Article of Faith #10:

Quote

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

 

My impression is that this revelation directly addresses the Millennium and the state of Glory that will define earth.  I believe that the reference to a "paradisiacal glory" is a direct comparison between the Millennium and the state of glory of Eden.   There are likely to be differences but from our current mortal view of paradisiacal glory - I do not think we know enough to be critical of differences.

But there is something else that I have pondered - perhaps your view can help me understand better.  I have pondered why we should read and study scripture?  As I have pondered I am impressed that a goal of this life is not to read and study scripture but rather we read and study scripture to better understand what our goals in this life ought to be.  For example the Pharisees and Scribes had scriptures as their primary goals but Jesus admonished them that the purpose of the scriptures was to testify of him.  And Jesus Christ was talking directly to them.  I believe that it would have been better that they pay attention to Jesus rather than be experts in scripture.  It seems to me that the purpose of scripture is not to replace Christ but to prepare us to live with Christ and to be guided by the Holy Spirit.   My parents once counseled me that there are appropriate times in life to put away my scripture and act upon that which I had learned from them.  

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

I have thought to respond - not so much to disagree but of offer some "different" perspectives.   We think of Eden as a specific place - but perhaps we should think of it as more of a type or kind of place - more along the lines of principles and glory.  In reference to glory, Eden is also known as 'Paradise" or the paradise of G-d.  With this in mind let us look at scripture - Article of Faith #10:

 

My impression is that this revelation directly addresses the Millennium and the state of Glory that will define earth.  I believe that the reference to a "paradisiacal glory" is a direct comparison between the Millennium and the state of glory of Eden.   There are likely to be differences but from our current mortal view of paradisiacal glory - I do not think we know enough to be critical of differences.

But there is something else that I have pondered - perhaps your view can help me understand better.  I have pondered why we should read and study scripture?  As I have pondered I am impressed that a goal of this life is not to read and study scripture but rather we read and study scripture to better understand what our goals in this life ought to be.  For example the Pharisees and Scribes had scriptures as their primary goals but Jesus admonished them that the purpose of the scriptures was to testify of him.  And Jesus Christ was talking directly to them.  I believe that it would have been better that they pay attention to Jesus rather than be experts in scripture.  It seems to me that the purpose of scripture is not to replace Christ but to prepare us to live with Christ and to be guided by the Holy Spirit.   My parents once counseled me that there are appropriate times in life to put away my scripture and act upon that which I had learned from them.  

 

The Traveler

Yes, I think the scriptures and the Spirit work together to proclaim both literal and figurative descriptions as we ponder and act.

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I thought to take this a slightly different direction.  If anyone is unhappy that this thread is being highjacked - sorry.

 

There are possible reasons to believe that lots of things will change during the millennium.  For example, I do not think there will be a need for as many doctors per population as we currently require.  I am not sure there will be a lot of need for lawyers (sorry @JustAGuy).  For fun and speculation - if you find yourself as someone still alive - Do you have any plans?  Do you plan to just do whatever you are told? (or called to do?)  Will you be proactive?  Will you spend time in you yard and gardens?  Will you stay active and stay in shape or do you think the L-rd will just take care of your health without you having to worry?

Just wondering what individuals plan or how you-all see your roll and how you will "fit in"?

As for me?  I hope I have time to cycle and ski.  If my health is good - I would just as soon do manual labor as engineering stuff - hopefully a mix similar to how I have lived up to now.  I do not think I can stay awake if I am working at the temples more that 4 or 5 hours a day every day.  Serving a full-time mission with my wife (especially if she has no diabetic concerns) would be fun.  Hopefully, I will not be assigned any kind of management or oversite with others - I am not an in charge tell others what to do kind of guy and I dislike following up (checking on) anyone.

 

The Traveler

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On 6/17/2022 at 7:55 AM, Traveler said:

I thought to take this a slightly different direction.  If anyone is unhappy that this thread is being highjacked - sorry.

 

There are possible reasons to believe that lots of things will change during the millennium.  For example, I do not think there will be a need for as many doctors per population as we currently require.  I am not sure there will be a lot of need for lawyers (sorry @JustAGuy).  For fun and speculation - if you find yourself as someone still alive - Do you have any plans?  Do you plan to just do whatever you are told? (or called to do?)  Will you be proactive?  Will you spend time in you yard and gardens?  Will you stay active and stay in shape or do you think the L-rd will just take care of your health without you having to worry?

Just wondering what individuals plan or how you-all see your roll and how you will "fit in"?

As for me?  I hope I have time to cycle and ski.  If my health is good - I would just as soon do manual labor as engineering stuff - hopefully a mix similar to how I have lived up to now.  I do not think I can stay awake if I am working at the temples more that 4 or 5 hours a day every day.  Serving a full-time mission with my wife (especially if she has no diabetic concerns) would be fun.  Hopefully, I will not be assigned any kind of management or oversite with others - I am not an in charge tell others what to do kind of guy and I dislike following up (checking on) anyone.

 

The Traveler

As far as I'm concerned your post is very relevant to this thread as I intended to broaden it's scope anyway but got distracted.

As we consider what the main purposes of the Millennium are, temple and missionary work, I imagine many of the distractions and impediments that exist now will be removed to allow us to concentrate more fully on those purposes. But in many ways life still goes on including raising families and all of the many activities that entails. This surely includes recreation and other wholesome pastimes and activities. 

I personally would find it very interesting to teach the gospel under those circumstances, especially at the beginning when the world is still dealing with having to explain exactly what has just happened. How does a Hindu explain it or what might a fervent but non-LDS Christian feel about the Savior's coming that doesn't happen exactly as they thought it would. It would certainly be a topic many would want to talk about and the need for missionaries, full-time and member, will be great!

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