The Great and Abominable Church


Recommended Posts

I'm having trouble defining the Church of the Devil 

Quote

...Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

 -- 1 Ne 14:10

It seems pretty clear that you're either on one side or the other. 

We further read about the MANY churches.

Quote

20 And the Gentiles are lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and have stumbled, because of the greatness of their stumbling block, that they have built up many churches; nevertheless, they put down the power and miracles of God, and preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain and grind upon the face of the poor.

21 And there are many churches built up which cause envyings, and strifes, and malice.

 -- 2 Ne 26

The fact that there are "many" in 2 Ne, but only two in 1 Ne, I interpret this to mean that 2 Ne is now using a more common definition of "church" that we're used to.  So, how does that relate to the definition in 1 Ne?

It has been common to believe that there is only "TCOJCOLDS" and "everyone else".  But I think this idea is flawed.  I can't seem to find the quote.  But there was a quote (I believe it was George Q. Canon?) who said that we are not alone in our fight.  There is too much work for any one people to do.  So, we don't consider other churches to be adversaries, but allies.

One way to weigh align all these ideas is that 1 Ne talking about "two churches only" was referring to the end times when the battle lines would be clearly drawn.  It could also mean that the battle lines are not drawn between Terrestrial and Celestial.  Perhaps, it is even drawn at O.D. and Telestial.  I don't know.  It's a theory.

But what are we to think about these three ideas?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I'm having trouble defining the Church of the Devil 

It seems pretty clear that you're either on one side or the other. 

We further read about the MANY churches.

The fact that there are "many" in 2 Ne, but only two in 1 Ne, I interpret this to mean that 2 Ne is now using a more common definition of "church" that we're used to.  So, how does that relate to the definition in 1 Ne?

It has been common to believe that there is only "TCOJCOLDS" and "everyone else".  But I think this idea is flawed.  I can't seem to find the quote.  But there was a quote (I believe it was George Q. Canon?) who said that we are not alone in our fight.  There is too much work for any one people to do.  So, we don't consider other churches to be adversaries, but allies.

One way to weigh align all these ideas is that 1 Ne talking about "two churches only" was referring to the end times when the battle lines would be clearly drawn.  It could also mean that the battle lines are not drawn between Terrestrial and Celestial.  Perhaps, it is even drawn at O.D. and Telestial.  I don't know.  It's a theory.

But what are we to think about these three ideas?

I have always understood 1 Nephi 14:10 to refer to ideology and not necessarily organized church. Your beliefs and ideas are either in line with what god wants or against it. The “many churches” is referring to the many ideological movements there are in the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Fether said:

I have always understood 1 Nephi 14:10 to refer to ideology and not necessarily organized church. Your beliefs and ideas are either in line with what god wants or against it. The “many churches” is referring to the many ideological movements there are in the world.

Yes, that's what I said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

H. Verlan Andersen was a close friend of Ezra Taft Benson.  He was also a General Authority.  You can read a bio here:  H. Verlan Andersen - Wikipedia

 

He wrote a book titled The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil.  The book was endorsed by Ezra Taft Benson.  The link below is to the pdf.  The owner of the website has permission from the family to host the pdf online for people to read.  I think he pretty much nailed it.

www.redhotlogo.com/1-Great and Abominable.pdf

Edited by mirkwood
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I'm having trouble defining the Church of the Devil 

It seems pretty clear that you're either on one side or the other. 

We further read about the MANY churches.

The fact that there are "many" in 2 Ne, but only two in 1 Ne, I interpret this to mean that 2 Ne is now using a more common definition of "church" that we're used to.  So, how does that relate to the definition in 1 Ne?

It has been common to believe that there is only "TCOJCOLDS" and "everyone else".  But I think this idea is flawed.  I can't seem to find the quote.  But there was a quote (I believe it was George Q. Canon?) who said that we are not alone in our fight.  There is too much work for any one people to do.  So, we don't consider other churches to be adversaries, but allies.

One way to weigh align all these ideas is that 1 Ne talking about "two churches only" was referring to the end times when the battle lines would be clearly drawn.  It could also mean that the battle lines are not drawn between Terrestrial and Celestial.  Perhaps, it is even drawn at O.D. and Telestial.  I don't know.  It's a theory.

But what are we to think about these three ideas?

Because these are spiritual concepts, it might help to describe the message, rather than define the term, since the former is what is being taught.

1 Nephi 14 is a prophecy of the last days, when the great and marvelous work (of which our Church is a key element) shall come forth, which either convinces men to peace and life eternal (church of the Lamb of God) or delivers them to captivity (that great church, the church of the devil). Christ is the founder of His Church, and the devil the founder of his. People, by subjecting their lives to the light of Christ, sustain one or the other, albeit by degrees. John the Revelator taught similar things, but this chapter focuses on the role of the Gentiles – the land or nation of the Restoration and  what the Gentiles are called upon to do to bring a fulness of the church of the Lamb of God to the rest of the world.

2 Nephi 26 reiterates this theme from verse 12 onward. The “many churches” in verse 21 are built up by those men who lean toward the church of the devil. Secular wisdom (verse 20) and secret combinations (verse 22) are a form of church as well. Subsequent verses mention priestcraft (29) and sin (32). All of these churches, whether a member of one or larger combinations, are outgrowths or fruits of the church of the devil. This chapter focuses on both Gentile and Jew

Edited by CV75
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heh - there's way too much fun here to just restrict ourselves to looking at 1 & 2 Nephi.  Mirk's link has right idea.  The G&ACotD is related to the "Great Whore that sitteth on many waters", the whore of Babylon.  In Revelation 17:

Quote

And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Referenced in D&C 86:

Quote

Behold, verily I say, the field was the world, and the apostles were the sowers of the seed;  And after they have fallen asleep the great persecutor of the church, the apostate, the whore, even Babylon, that maketh all nations to drink of her cup, in whose hearts the enemy, even Satan, sitteth to reign behold he soweth the tares; wherefore, the tares choke the wheat and drive the church into the wilderness.

 

In this respect, the Jehovah's Witnesses put us to shame artistically.  Nobody draws a whore of babylon riding the beast like the JW's:

image.jpeg.85bad76aad3e7ac6d2e663dd4acd7706.jpeg

 

They even got the number of heads and horns right.  I'm almost sad our churches only have approved artwork of Christ and the first presidency now - back in the day it would have been cool to see something like this framed and hanging on the wall between the Relief Society room and the nursery.  :) 

(Sorry, I know this thread is about trying to decipher the symbolism into something understandable.  Mirk's link is all I've got to help there.  Just sticking my head in to remind us all that this thing appears in the NT, BoM, D&C, and words of church leaders.  It's not to be taken lightly.)

 

Edited by NeuroTypical
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/8/2022 at 11:43 PM, Carborendum said:

I'm having trouble defining the Church of the Devil 

It seems pretty clear that you're either on one side or the other. 

We further read about the MANY churches.

 

It has been common to believe that there is only "TCOJCOLDS" and "everyone else".  But I think this idea is flawed.  I can't seem to find the quote.  But there was a quote (I believe it was George Q. Canon?) who said that we are not alone in our fight.  There is too much work for any one people to do.  So, we don't consider other churches to be adversaries, but allies.

 

But what are we to think about these three ideas?

I have felt a similar confusion, and pondered similar questions when considering the similarities and differences between the teachings in these two verses. My understanding of these two teachings is that they are both responses to the question of how should we respond to people with similar beliefs who are doing good deeds, sometimes in the name of CHrist, but who are not of THE church. Although both responses come from Christ, they are not the same. 

Luke 9: 49 ¶ And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is afor us.

 

Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not awith me scattereth abroad.

 

I think the words of Moroni 7:12 - 13 might also be relevant when considering these questions

 

12 Wherefore, all things which are agood cometh of God; and that which is bevil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to csin, and to do that which is evil continually.

13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do agood continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and benticeth to do cgood, and to love God, and to serve him, is dinspired of God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Heh - there's way too much fun here to just restrict ourselves to looking at 1 & 2 Nephi.  Mirk's link has right idea.  The G&ACotD is related to the "Great Whore that sitteth on many waters", the whore of Babylon.  In Revelation 17:

Referenced in D&C 86:

 

In this respect, the Jehovah's Witnesses put us to shame artistically.  Nobody draws a whore of babylon riding the beast like the JW's:

image.jpeg.85bad76aad3e7ac6d2e663dd4acd7706.jpeg

 

They even got the number of heads and horns right.  I'm almost sad our churches only have approved artwork of Christ and the first presidency now - back in the day it would have been cool to see something like this framed and hanging on the wall between the Relief Society room and the nursery.  :) 

(Sorry, I know this thread is about trying to decipher the symbolism into something understandable.  Mirk's link is all I've got to help there.  Just sticking my head in to remind us all that this thing appears in the NT, BoM, D&C, and words of church leaders.  It's not to be taken lightly.)

 

Thank you for clarifying that this is not the next Disney Princess!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/8/2022 at 12:17 PM, mirkwood said:

H. Verlan Andersen was a close friend of Ezra Taft Benson.  He was also a General Authority.  You can read a bio here:  H. Verlan Andersen - Wikipedia

 

He wrote a book titled The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil.  The book was endorsed by ETB.  The link below is to the pdf.  The owner of the website has permission from the family to host the pdf online for people to read.  I think he pretty much nailed it.

www.redhotlogo.com/1-Great and Abominable.pdf

So, if you are a close personal friend of a prophet, that makes you more reliable? 😇

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

So, if you are a close personal friend of a prophet, that makes you more reliable? 😇

 

When you write a book about the topic, which delves into the world of modern secret combinations and you are friends with the "patriot prophet," yes it does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/8/2022 at 8:13 AM, Carborendum said:

One way to weigh align all these ideas is that 1 Ne talking about "two churches only" was referring to the end times when the battle lines would be clearly drawn.  It could also mean that the battle lines are not drawn between Terrestrial and Celestial.  Perhaps, it is even drawn at O.D. and Telestial.  I don't know.  It's a theory.

But what are we to think about these three ideas?

In light of the breakdown between kingdoms which may have some truth; unless of course, my understanding of what I have been taught and understood is wrong.

Celestial - ministered unto my the Father and Son (Jesus Christ)

Terrestrial - ministered unto by the Son (Jesus Christ)

Telestial - ministered unto by the angels (Father and Son are removed)

O.D. - No glory

So to a degree, the division could easily be what you have suggested. I'm also reminded of the individual in the NT who was giving blessings (if I'm remembering correctly) and the apostles wanted to stop him, but the Lord stopped the apostles with some counsel about the individual doing "good."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was struggling whether to put this in the Roe v Wade thread or this thread.  I decided to put it here because, I'm not as concerned about the Roe v. Wade decision or its overturning as I am about the ideology that is now making itself known to us.  And it is much worse than we thought.

This particular post is NOT intended to center on abortion.  It is about this ideology.  Hence, it has to do with TGAAC that I believe is shoving its religious beliefs in our faces all in the name of tolerance and refusing any Christian from "shoving our religion in their faces."

The following link is a tweet from a Harvard Law Professor.

https://twitter.com/Esqueer_/status/1540655708630302720

She says that because of the overturn, the people have every right to harass the justices at every turn.  She then goes on to repeat the tired line that LGBTQ and contraception are at risk again. I'm surprised she didn't mention interracial marriage.

If a Harvard Law Professor cannot tell the difference between banning abortion vs relinquishing federal authority of it to the states, then the entire legal system is going to be at risk.

LET ME REPEAT: This particular post is NOT intended to center on abortion.  It is about this ideology that is so blind that it takes "relinquishing authority" as being "authoritarian."

Am I going off the rocker calling this a sign of TGAAC?  Maybe.  But here's a litmus test.  If it is TGAAC, then it will manifest as being opposed to the Church of the Lamb.

Bad: Abortion, LGBTQ+, NAMBLA, "Freedom From Religion", Destruction of the Constitution, Mob rule, Libertine.

Good: Marriage, Family, God, the Constitution, Rule of Law, The Bill of Rights.

The movement isn't 100% there yet.  But from when I was a child to this day, the battle lines have been getting clearer, brighter, and broader.  If these shadows remain unaltered by the Future, then I'm being prophetic.  If they are altered, then the earth has earned a reprieve from Armageddon for a season.

Edited by Carborendum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Carborendum said:

She says that because of the overturn, the people have every right to harass the justices at every turn.  She then goes on to repeat the tired line that LGBTQ and contraception again. I'm surprised she didn't mention interracial marriage.

 

The other day people were circulating what they claimed was a screen capture of someone from an "anti-fascist" group putting out a bounty for information on the personal activities of the justices in the hopes of getting their people together to publicly harass them. 

I was never able to fact-check the image, but I get a sinking feeling that it was more than likely real.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/8/2022 at 10:13 AM, Carborendum said:

I'm having trouble defining the Church of the Devil 

1 Nephi 14:10 seems like a generalization between one church and every other false religious system.

"And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, 
and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of 
God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the 
earth
". 

1 Nephi 13:34 and 1 Nephi 14:17 even mention there being other harlots, with the great and abominable
church being like a mother figure.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1985/10/the-only-true-church?lang=eng

"One doctrine presents a particular challenge. It is our firm conviction that The Church of Jesus Christ 
of Latter-day Saints is, as the revelations state, “the only true and living church upon the face of the 
whole earth.” (D&C 1:30.)

"I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed 
me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; 
that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines 
the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof" (First Vision
account)
.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nephi’s writings about “great and abominable church” need to be qualified by the historical data point that in 6th century BCE Jerusalem, anything that might be called a “church” (if it even existed at all—most Judaism scholars believe the synagogue was a post-Exilic innovation) didn’t look or operate remotely like anything that might be called a “church” today.

“Church” may have been the nearest 1830 English analogue to translate whatever it was Nephi wrote; but there’s an excellent chance that he might (nearly) as well have written of a “great and abominable C-corporation” or a “great and abominable nation-state” or a “great and abominable NGO”.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Nephi’s writings about “great and abominable church” need to be qualified by the historical data point that in 6th century BCE Jerusalem, anything that might be called a “church” (if it even existed at all—most Judaism scholars believe the synagogue was a post-Exilic innovation) didn’t look or operate remotely like anything that might be called a “church” today.

“Church” may have been the nearest 1830 English analogue to translate whatever it was Nephi wrote; but there’s an excellent chance that he might (nearly) as well have written of a “great and abominable C-corporation” or a “great and abominable nation-state” or a “great and abominable NGO”.

This idea that you present is one of the reasons I'm having trouble with defining what it is supposed to look like.  I've read McConkie's (revised) statement on it.  And I get that in spirit.  But there is something about Nephi's description that is begging for definition that I'm not quite able to articulate... or even, perhaps, to grasp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Carborendum said:

This idea that you present is one of the reasons I'm having trouble with defining what it is supposed to look like.  I've read McConkie's (revised) statement on it.  And I get that in spirit.  But there is something about Nephi's description that is begging for definition that I'm not quite able to articulate... or even, perhaps, to grasp.

Nephi is prophesying about a future entity that he is likely conceptualizing from his point of view as a “qahal” -- see Quahal.

As used in 1 Nephi 4:26, the “church” seems to be a translation of "quahal" to describe a group of key elders who were called out to a meeting. So, a great and abominable assembly might well describe a secret combination formed among the nations of the Gentiles (1 Nephi 13:4) since a secret combination is similarly described elsewhere in the Book of Mormon:

1 Nephi 13:

And it came to pass that I saw among the nations of the aGentiles the formation of a bgreat church.

And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of achurch which is most abominable above all other churches, which bslayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a cyoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity.

And it came to pass that I beheld this agreat and babominable church; and I saw the cdevil that he was the founder of it.

And I also saw agold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined blinen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots.

And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the adesires of this great and abominable church.

And also for the apraise of the world do they bdestroy the saints of God, and bring them down into captivity.

 

Ether 8:

Now the daughter of Jared was exceedingly fair. And it came to pass that she did talk with her father, and said unto him: Whereby hath my father so much sorrow? Hath he not read the arecord which our fathers brought across the great deep? Behold, is there not an baccount concerning them of cold, that they by their dsecret plans did obtain kingdoms and great glory?

18 And it came to pass that they formed a asecret combination, even as they of old; which combination is most abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;

22 And whatsoever anation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the bblood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for cvengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.

This would render the great and abominable church a specific secret group that knowing better, deliberately sought to advance their gain of the world over the gain of Zion. Similar efforts had been attempted before (Master Mahan, the Tower, etc.).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, CV75 said:

Nephi is prophesying about a future entity that he is likely conceptualizing from his point of view as a “qahal” -- see Quahal.

As used in 1 Nephi 4:26, the “church” seems to be a translation of "quahal" to describe a group of key elders who were called out to a meeting. So, a great and abominable assembly might well describe a secret combination formed among the nations of the Gentiles (1 Nephi 13:4) since a secret combination is similarly described elsewhere in the Book of Mormon:

1 Nephi 13:

And it came to pass that I saw among the nations of the aGentiles the formation of a bgreat church.

And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of achurch which is most abominable above all other churches, which bslayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a cyoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity.

And it came to pass that I beheld this agreat and babominable church; and I saw the cdevil that he was the founder of it.

And I also saw agold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined blinen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots.

And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the adesires of this great and abominable church.

And also for the apraise of the world do they bdestroy the saints of God, and bring them down into captivity.

 

Ether 8:

Now the daughter of Jared was exceedingly fair. And it came to pass that she did talk with her father, and said unto him: Whereby hath my father so much sorrow? Hath he not read the arecord which our fathers brought across the great deep? Behold, is there not an baccount concerning them of cold, that they by their dsecret plans did obtain kingdoms and great glory?

18 And it came to pass that they formed a asecret combination, even as they of old; which combination is most abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;

22 And whatsoever anation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the bblood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for cvengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.

This would render the great and abominable church a specific secret group that knowing better, deliberately sought to advance their gain of the world over the gain of Zion. Similar efforts had been attempted before (Master Mahan, the Tower, etc.).

 

We have been warned, repeatedly and we need to wake up to our awful situation,

"A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. . .

. . .As the issues become clearer and more obvious, all mankind will eventually be required to align themselves either for the kingdom of God or for the kingdom of the devil. As these conflicts rage, either secretly or openly, the righteous will be tested."

-President Ezra Taft Benson, I Testify, October 1988 General Conference, Sunday AM Session.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/12/2022 at 10:09 PM, Anddenex said:

Celestial - ministered unto my the Father and Son (Jesus Christ)

Terrestrial - ministered unto by the Son (Jesus Christ)

Telestial - ministered unto by the angels (Father and Son are removed)

O.D. - No glory

 

Perhaps ruled would be a better word, not ministered, that is what angels are for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Perhaps ruled would be a better word, not ministered, that is what angels are for.

Indeed the Father and Son rule, and they also minister. For we know our Savior "ministered" to the people in the Spirit World. In the context I was providing, minister is an appropriate word here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

Indeed the Father and Son rule, and they also minister. For we know our Savior "ministered" to the people in the Spirit World. In the context I was providing, minister is an appropriate word here.

I see. I find it just a little amusing how we discuss the afterlife as though we know for certain what will happen there. I think the most important thing to realize is that, if we do not live according to the knowledge we have while we are here, we probably won't need to worry about what happens in the Terrestrial and Celestial worlds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/20/2022 at 8:59 AM, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Perhaps ruled would be a better word, not ministered, that is what angels are for.

 

2 hours ago, Anddenex said:

Indeed the Father and Son rule, and they also minister. For we know our Savior "ministered" to the people in the Spirit World. In the context I was providing, minister is an appropriate word here.

Perhaps a bit out of context, but I view our obedience to the Father in the hereafter being more out of love and gratitude rather than God ruling or dictating per se. My earthly father and mother currently have no power over me in any form, yet, if they were to ask me to do something for them I would still do it out of love and respect. I don't want that to sound sacreligious in any way, as God truly is all powerful and we all must obey Him, but I doubt He would ever need to dictate rules to those of His children that attain a Celestial glory, as they will already understand such laws due to becoming exalted, and one with Him and the Son.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/16/2022 at 7:58 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

Nephi’s writings about “great and abominable church” need to be qualified by the historical data point that in 6th century BCE Jerusalem, anything that might be called a “church” (if it even existed at all—most Judaism scholars believe the synagogue was a post-Exilic innovation) didn’t look or operate remotely like anything that might be called a “church” today.

“Church” may have been the nearest 1830 English analogue to translate whatever it was Nephi wrote; but there’s an excellent chance that he might (nearly) as well have written of a “great and abominable C-corporation” or a “great and abominable nation-state” or a “great and abominable NGO”.

Did the persons mentioned in the Book of Mormon have different concepts as to what "church" represented, for
example 2 Nephi 28:3,12,18 and Mosiah 25:19,21?

Edited by romans8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share