Stress, worry, and faith


laronius
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I recently started reading Saints volume 3. In it is the story of Heber J Grant, not yet the prophet, who is sent east to secure funding to keep the Church afloat. If he doesn't do it by the next day the Church may default on it's existing loans and it's financial future would go from bad to worse. All night he is stressed, worried and anxious about what to do. The next day he is miraculously able to secure the much needed funding. 

As I read that story the question came to mind concerning the necessity of the stress and worry he was feeling. Were these negative feelings a sign of a lack of faith on his part? Or are they normal or perhaps even purposeful among the completely faithful? Part of me says if he had had greater faith and was better prepared then he could have avoided all of that stress and worry. At least that seems to be what the doctrine implies.

But another part of me says that if I don't feel stress and worry to some degree about something so serious of nature, regardless of my faith, that I'm being careless and perhaps even flippant in my approach. 

If it were just myself who experienced these feelings I would just chalk it up to my still growing faith. But when I see these feelings and emotions experienced by people of far greater faith it makes me wonder if there is a level of stress and worry attached to our fallen state that will simply not be overcome in this life? Even the Savior himself seemed to have been experiencing some of these feelings leading up to the garden experience. But perhaps I am comparing apples to oranges in this. So I guess another way of saying it is: Is stress, worry, and anxiety not always connected to our level of faith?

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1 hour ago, laronius said:

I recently started reading Saints volume 3. In it is the story of Heber J Grant, not yet the prophet, who is sent east to secure funding to keep the Church afloat. If he doesn't do it by the next day the Church may default on it's existing loans and it's financial future would go from bad to worse. All night he is stressed, worried and anxious about what to do. The next day he is miraculously able to secure the much needed funding. 

As I read that story the question came to mind concerning the necessity of the stress and worry he was feeling. Were these negative feelings a sign of a lack of faith on his part? Or are they normal or perhaps even purposeful among the completely faithful? Part of me says if he had had greater faith and was better prepared then he could have avoided all of that stress and worry. At least that seems to be what the doctrine implies.

But another part of me says that if I don't feel stress and worry to some degree about something so serious of nature, regardless of my faith, that I'm being careless and perhaps even flippant in my approach. 

If it were just myself who experienced these feelings I would just chalk it up to my still growing faith. But when I see these feelings and emotions experienced by people of far greater faith it makes me wonder if there is a level of stress and worry attached to our fallen state that will simply not be overcome in this life? Even the Savior himself seemed to have been experiencing some of these feelings leading up to the garden experience. But perhaps I am comparing apples to oranges in this. So I guess another way of saying it is: Is stress, worry, and anxiety not always connected to our level of faith?

I would agree with this; there are many other aspects of our mental states and personality that likewise are not always connected to our level of faith. But faith will help us endure until the perfect day, not matter what troubles us along the way.

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1 hour ago, laronius said:

Is stress, worry, and anxiety not always connected to our level of faith?

Yep, you know the answer: Of course not.  We're not promised stress-free living when living righteously. We're promised a good path, the ability to withstand adversity, and sometimes comfort from the Comforter.  Our hymnbook doesn't have any "here's how to get rid of all your problems" hymns, but it has many on enduring, and thriving through tribulation, and the right places to look for peace.

If everything is going very well for you and yours, there are always local, societal, and world things happening to be stressed, worried, and anxious over.  If you manage to shut them all out, then you'll be stressed/worried/anxious and fearful of the unknowns.

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I look at this from several angles.

1.  We shouldn't stress and worry about anything.  You act, and sometimes those actions lead to the results you desire.  Sometimes the actions of others lead to the results you desire.  Sometimes they don't.

2.  We can't NOT worry.  The natural man feels stress and worry.

3.  It isn't connected to faith at all.  We don't know what God has in store for us.  What if it had been God's plan for the Church to NOT receive funding?  What if the path was meant to be different?   This knowledge should support number 1, but really leads to number 2.

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This strikes me as the same idea as the question of courage meaning one has no fear -- or is courage moving forward despite great fear? Which is, actually, more courageous?

Because it strikes me that if one has no fear, it isn't actually courageous to act. My jumping in the deep end of the pool is not an act of courage. My 5-year-old doing the same is an act of tremendous courage.

Faith in the face of stress and worry, seems to me, the same. Having great stress and worry is when faith becomes necessary, useful and meaningful.

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3 hours ago, laronius said:

I recently started reading Saints volume 3. In it is the story of Heber J Grant, not yet the prophet, who is sent east to secure funding to keep the Church afloat...All night he is stressed, worried and anxious about what to do. The next day he is miraculously able to secure the much needed funding...Were these negative feelings a sign of a lack of faith on his part? Or are they normal or perhaps even purposeful among the completely faithful?

Part of me says if he had had greater faith and was better prepared then he could have avoided all of that stress and worry. At least that seems to be what the doctrine implies. But another part of me says that if I don't feel stress and worry to some degree about something so serious of nature, regardless of my faith, that I'm being careless and perhaps even flippant in my approach...I guess another way of saying it is: Is stress, worry, and anxiety not always connected to our level of faith?

Alma, acting as the presiding high priest of the Nephite Church, was deeply distressed before receiving the joyous and transformative news from the angel that he was being given a mission from God (to disastrous consequences, but the angel didn't mention that part) in Alma 8:14-16:

And it came to pass that while he was journeying thither, being weighed down with sorrow, wading through much tribulation and anguish of soul, because of the wickedness of the people who were in the city of Ammonihah, it came to pass while Alma was thus weighed down with sorrow, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto him, saying: Blessed art thou, Alma; therefore, lift up thy head and rejoice, for thou hast great cause to rejoice; for thou hast been faithful in keeping the commandments of God from the time which thou receivedst thy first message from him. Behold, I am he that delivered it unto you. And behold, I am sent to command thee that thou return to the city of Ammonihah, and preach again unto the people of the city; yea, preach unto them. Yea, say unto them, except they repent the Lord God will destroy them.

Joseph Smith was in tremendous distress, worry, pain, and anguish, both for his people and for himself, and was literally begging God to do something, when he received the first half of Section 121:

O God, where art thou? And where is the pavilion that covereth thy hiding place? How long shall thy hand be stayed, and thine eye, yea thy pure eye, behold from the eternal heavens the wrongs of thy people and of thy servants, and thine ear be penetrated with their cries? Yea, O Lord, how long shall they suffer these wrongs and unlawful oppressions, before thine heart shall be softened toward them, and thy bowels be moved with compassion toward them?

As recounted in Acts 5, Peter and other apostles suffered humiliation before the corrupt Sanhedrin and counted themselves blessed for it:

when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego spoke to the king in an attitude that the king interpreted as insolence, the result of which was the doubtless stressful knowledge that they were about to be burned alive:

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

The Lord himself suffered unspeakable agonies of spirit in the garden of Gethsemane. I believe such stress is a necessary and even divinely appointed part of our spiritual education. It represents the growing pains of an immature spirit struggling to grow up, or of an adult spirit reacting to the inevitable sorrows of existence.

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Mormon 9:27 O then despise not, and wonder not, but hearken unto the words of the Lord, and ask the Father in the name of Jesus for what things soever ye shall stand in need. Doubt not, but be believing, and begin as in times of old, and come unto the Lord with all your heart, and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling before him.

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As I've mentioned earlier, I am on the autism spectrum. I am incredibly high-functioning, but still have some of the critical limitations. 

Among other things, this means that my threshold for stress is lower than that of a person with similar training and life experiences. It also means that once I get used to something being the way it is, it's more difficult than normal for me to make the requisite changes. 

I am, at present, going through a very stressful situation IRL that I'm not at liberty to discuss. Suffice to say that it's a very protracted situation, one that by all rights should have been resolved months ago but which is still dragging on. There are days where I am so worn out and at wit's end I find myself asking "How long, oh Lord?" as Jeremiah once did. 

All I can do is take matters one day at a time and trust that the appropriate outcome will transpire. But whenever I have a setback or when my next step doesn't seem clear, it can throw me for a while until I can center myself and move forward. 

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This is an interesting question in that this can be interpreted/viewed from multiple angles. When I contemplate an individual's faith (particularly mine own), the prime example is Jesus Christ. In the scenario with Heber J. Grant, if I replace HJG with the Lord what would the Lord have experienced? If he wouldn't have experienced any stress or worry, due to his trust in his Father, then I could say this is a direct reflection of one's faith.

The biblical story of the apostles in the boat and the tremendous storm correlates with this question. The Lord responded to their fear, stress, and worry with the following words, "O ye of little faith." Then Jesus calmed the storm.

In answer to the question, I would give the vague answer of -- it depends. If the Lord is able to call out his apostles for having little faith when on a boat in a big storm, then we might conclude that HJG was also of little faith if he was experiencing worry, stress, and fear.

At the same time, I'm sure the centurion worried about his daughter's health, and stressed over his daughter's health. He went to the Lord, his daughter was healed, and the Lord applauded the soldier's faith.

To some degree, just like doubt, stress, worry, and fear are direct evidence of our lack of faith.

Edited by Anddenex
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Thanks for everyone's responses. I think I could have been a little more specific in my question now after having read what everyone had to say.

Clearly we are all going to experience difficulties in life, things that cause us concern and some plain old miserable days, months or maybe even years. But I would differentiate these negative emotions from what I was trying to get at before. I think the key word here is doubt.

The Lord has promised that if we remain faithful then all things will some how turn for our good. If we truly believed this then should we really need to stress and worry about a situation? I think personally I would still worry about the one great variable in this equation and that would be my faith. Because if I failed to remain faithful then I have no such promise. BUT assuming my faith is not lacking then my trust in the Lord's promises should quiet all my fears, doubts, worries, and stress. I think this state of being is part of what it means to enter into the rest of the Lord.

But because my faith is not perfect I can't say that I've ever been able to prove this line of thinking in my own life so I look to others who have greater faith than I for verification. Though there have been experiences where I feel stress because I don't know the outcome of a situation even after all that I know to do. So instead of worrying about it I try to put it into the hands of the Lord and just stop worrying about it. But then doubt creeps into mind about whether I'm exercising faith or if I'm just ignoring the problem. 

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On 8/29/2022 at 9:38 AM, The Folk Prophet said:

This strikes me as the same idea as the question of courage meaning one has no fear -- or is courage moving forward despite great fear? Which is, actually, more courageous?

Because it strikes me that if one has no fear, it isn't actually courageous to act. My jumping in the deep end of the pool is not an act of courage. My 5-year-old doing the same is an act of tremendous courage.

Faith in the face of stress and worry, seems to me, the same. Having great stress and worry is when faith becomes necessary, useful and meaningful.

I appreciate your perspective. It makes me think of the man who brought a child to Jesus to be healed but when questioned about his faith he makes the request of "help thou mine unbelief." Or in other words he is seeking to exercise faith in the midst of his lack of faith. I have certainly felt this way at times.

But what if this man was not lacking in faith? Of course he would still be concerned about the physical welfare of his child. I don't think there is any escaping that in this life  But if he truly believed that either Christ would heal him or if not then everything would still work out fine either way, would this man still be feeling the desperate anxiety that seemed to grip him? 

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On 8/29/2022 at 9:34 AM, Grunt said:

I look at this from several angles.

1.  We shouldn't stress and worry about anything.  You act, and sometimes those actions lead to the results you desire.  Sometimes the actions of others lead to the results you desire.  Sometimes they don't.

2.  We can't NOT worry.  The natural man feels stress and worry.

3.  It isn't connected to faith at all.  We don't know what God has in store for us.  What if it had been God's plan for the Church to NOT receive funding?  What if the path was meant to be different?   This knowledge should support number 1, but really leads to number 2.

I think your second point is interesting because the natural man is by definition faithless. So I guess it comes down whether one's faith can ever so fully subdue the natural man that it never can cause these negative feelings in the midst of difficulty.

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On 8/29/2022 at 9:48 AM, Vort said:

Alma, acting as the presiding high priest of the Nephite Church, was deeply distressed before receiving the joyous and transformative news from the angel that he was being given a mission from God (to disastrous consequences, but the angel didn't mention that part) in Alma 8:14-16:

And it came to pass that while he was journeying thither, being weighed down with sorrow, wading through much tribulation and anguish of soul, because of the wickedness of the people who were in the city of Ammonihah, it came to pass while Alma was thus weighed down with sorrow, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto him, saying: Blessed art thou, Alma; therefore, lift up thy head and rejoice, for thou hast great cause to rejoice; for thou hast been faithful in keeping the commandments of God from the time which thou receivedst thy first message from him. Behold, I am he that delivered it unto you. And behold, I am sent to command thee that thou return to the city of Ammonihah, and preach again unto the people of the city; yea, preach unto them. Yea, say unto them, except they repent the Lord God will destroy them.

Joseph Smith was in tremendous distress, worry, pain, and anguish, both for his people and for himself, and was literally begging God to do something, when he received the first half of Section 121:

O God, where art thou? And where is the pavilion that covereth thy hiding place? How long shall thy hand be stayed, and thine eye, yea thy pure eye, behold from the eternal heavens the wrongs of thy people and of thy servants, and thine ear be penetrated with their cries? Yea, O Lord, how long shall they suffer these wrongs and unlawful oppressions, before thine heart shall be softened toward them, and thy bowels be moved with compassion toward them?

As recounted in Acts 5, Peter and other apostles suffered humiliation before the corrupt Sanhedrin and counted themselves blessed for it:

when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego spoke to the king in an attitude that the king interpreted as insolence, the result of which was the doubtless stressful knowledge that they were about to be burned alive:

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

The Lord himself suffered unspeakable agonies of spirit in the garden of Gethsemane. I believe such stress is a necessary and even divinely appointed part of our spiritual education. It represents the growing pains of an immature spirit struggling to grow up, or of an adult spirit reacting to the inevitable sorrows of existence.

I agree with your conclusion that stress is part of the growing pains we experience in life. But does this mean that it should lessen, even to the point of disappears as our faith matures and becomes perfect? This of course does not include anguish which even God experiences now, but not the stress and anxiety we experience.

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On 8/29/2022 at 5:07 PM, Ironhold said:

As I've mentioned earlier, I am on the autism spectrum. I am incredibly high-functioning, but still have some of the critical limitations. 

Among other things, this means that my threshold for stress is lower than that of a person with similar training and life experiences. It also means that once I get used to something being the way it is, it's more difficult than normal for me to make the requisite changes. 

I am, at present, going through a very stressful situation IRL that I'm not at liberty to discuss. Suffice to say that it's a very protracted situation, one that by all rights should have been resolved months ago but which is still dragging on. There are days where I am so worn out and at wit's end I find myself asking "How long, oh Lord?" as Jeremiah once did. 

All I can do is take matters one day at a time and trust that the appropriate outcome will transpire. But whenever I have a setback or when my next step doesn't seem clear, it can throw me for a while until I can center myself and move forward. 

Without getting into the specifics of your personal situation, what would you say is the cause of your stress? Each year I go through a period at work that just so wears on me that physically and mentally I feel that my mortal condition gets taken to it's breaking point. It's not a question of faith, just mortal limitations. I just need a break and recoup. Is this what you are experiencing or is it more of not knowing the outcome and whether it's going to be good or bad?

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On 8/29/2022 at 6:55 PM, Anddenex said:

This is an interesting question in that this can be interpreted/viewed from multiple angles. When I contemplate an individual's faith (particularly mine own), the prime example is Jesus Christ. In the scenario with Heber J. Grant, if I replace HJG with the Lord what would the Lord have experienced? If he wouldn't have experienced any stress or worry, due to his trust in his Father, then I could say this is a direct reflection of one's faith.

The biblical story of the apostles in the boat and the tremendous storm correlates with this question. The Lord responded to their fear, stress, and worry with the following words, "O ye of little faith." Then Jesus calmed the storm.

In answer to the question, I would give the vague answer of -- it depends. If the Lord is able to call out his apostles for having little faith when on a boat in a big storm, then we might conclude that HJG was also of little faith if he was experiencing worry, stress, and fear.

At the same time, I'm sure the centurion worried about his daughter's health, and stressed over his daughter's health. He went to the Lord, his daughter was healed, and the Lord applauded the soldier's faith.

To some degree, just like doubt, stress, worry, and fear are direct evidence of our lack of faith.

I like how you insert Christ in my example because really that's the only way to know for sure how perfect faith might alter what person feels in a situation. As I mentioned in another response I think there is definitely physical and mental stress that exists independent of the question of faith. It's not stress due to the outcome of a situation but rather the limitations of our mortal condition. But my original question mainly concerned stress in relation to the outcome of a situation and whether faith can completely alleviate it. I think inserting Jesus into a situation (kind of like "What would Jesus feel?" Instead of "What would Jesus do?") makes for a great point to consider.

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2 hours ago, laronius said:

I agree with your conclusion that stress is part of the growing pains we experience in life. But does this mean that it should lessen, even to the point of disappears as our faith matures and becomes perfect? This of course does not include anguish which even God experiences now, but not the stress and anxiety we experience.

At this point, as is the case with pretty much all philosophical topics, the discussion becomes a semantic argument. That is not to say that it's either pointless or uninteresting, but I think you were addressing something that you perceive as underlying the words. Sometimes it's hard to get there. Sometimes we can't get there. Sometimes there is no "there" to get to.

FWIW, I don't think there is a deeper point to be made here. If "stress" is purely a result of personal imperfection and/or an inevitable consequence of our mortal condition, then it will not apply in the eternities. Therefore, God (and we ourselves) will not feel "stress". But he (and we) will feel something. And that something will be very real and important. Whether or not we call it "stress" seems arbitrary to me.

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5 hours ago, laronius said:

I appreciate your perspective. It makes me think of the man who brought a child to Jesus to be healed but when questioned about his faith he makes the request of "help thou mine unbelief." Or in other words he is seeking to exercise faith in the midst of his lack of faith. I have certainly felt this way at times.

But what if this man was not lacking in faith? Of course he would still be concerned about the physical welfare of his child. I don't think there is any escaping that in this life  But if he truly believed that either Christ would heal him or if not then everything would still work out fine either way, would this man still be feeling the desperate anxiety that seemed to grip him? 

I believe we learn from Alma that to have faith is not to have a perfect knowledge, and if we have sure knowledge then our faith becomes dormant.

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5 hours ago, laronius said:

Without getting into the specifics of your personal situation, what would you say is the cause of your stress? Each year I go through a period at work that just so wears on me that physically and mentally I feel that my mortal condition gets taken to it's breaking point. It's not a question of faith, just mortal limitations. I just need a break and recoup. Is this what you are experiencing or is it more of not knowing the outcome and whether it's going to be good or bad?

Earlier in the year a relative made a careless mistake, a mistake whose consequences simmered long enough that by the time anyone realized what had happened it'd boiled over into a huge honking mess. Every time it seems like we've resolved matters, a new twist or wrinkle comes up. 

It's not legal or anything else like that, but more a poor personal choice. 

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2 hours ago, Vort said:

FWIW, I don't think there is a deeper point to be made here. If "stress" is purely a result of personal imperfection and/or an inevitable consequence of our mortal condition, then it will not apply in the eternities. Therefore, God (and we ourselves) will not feel "stress". But he (and we) will feel something. And that something will be very real and important. Whether or not we call it "stress" seems arbitrary to me.

If we really want to dig into the "philosophy" of it all, God sees, and presumably feels, past, present and future before him. We can't really comprehend that, but in theory, that includes ALL past -- which also means His past prior to exaltation, and which, perhaps (depending on one's view as to whether God the Father was always perfect, like the Savior, or might have been mortal like unto us) included stress... I don't know what that means or even what point I'm trying to make. But that's the thought that came out of my brain.

What I do think it means, by interpretation (as you said...semantics).... Stress by way of anxiety (or anxiety by way of stress) is, definitionally (argumentatively), NOT knowing the future. So God, knowing the future, can't have stress. He knows what's going to happen. Of course stress, more broadly, simple means pressure. So in that regard, if someone knew beyond a shadow of a doubt their kid was going to die tomorrow, I think the weight (pressure/stress) of that would exist. But the anxiety at not knowing things related to that (What life will be like without them? Can one go on? How will one's family be affected. Etc.) plays into that somewhat.

Anyhow...God already knows which of His children will be lost. He certainly has sorrow about that. But knowing of it eternally cannot, to my thinking, cause eternal stress. It's interesting. It is something I don't understand. God has eternal joy. A perfect joy. Somehow, that I can't fathom, that exists alongside His losing a great majority of His children, and being eternally aware of that. I don't know how that all works. So I live by faith. ;) 

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9 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Anyhow...God already knows which of His children will be lost. He certainly has sorrow about that. But knowing of it eternally cannot, to my thinking, cause eternal stress. It's interesting. It is something I don't understand. God has eternal joy. A perfect joy. Somehow, that I can't fathom, that exists alongside His losing a great majority of His children, and being eternally aware of that. I don't know how that all works. So I live by faith. ;)

I do not pretend to comprehend this. I don't necessarily accept the (vastly oversimplified, IMO) traditional LDS view of the nature of God's omniscience. But I think it's an intriguing idea, that God knows all and allows it despite the pain. I loved the movie Arrival for exactly that reason; Amy Adams' character chose, even embraced, a future of pain and loss because she was unwilling to miss out on the joy.

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1 hour ago, Ironhold said:

Earlier in the year a relative made a careless mistake, a mistake whose consequences simmered long enough that by the time anyone realized what had happened it'd boiled over into a huge honking mess. Every time it seems like we've resolved matters, a new twist or wrinkle comes up. 

It's not legal or anything else like that, but more a poor personal choice. 

Ah yes, relationship stress. That's a difficult one because relationships are kind of what it's all about and yet it's not something we can completely control. I am reminded of Enoch's experience with God and how the Lord wept over his creations, namely us, because of our poor choices. 

Moses 7:33 And unto thy brethren have I said, and also given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father; but behold, they are without affection, and they hate their own blood;

I'm not saying your situation is THAT bad but I think most relationship problems stem from forgetting that underlined part. I hope your situation finds a quick and lasting resolution.

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19 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

If we really want to dig into the "philosophy" of it all, God sees, and presumably feels, past, present and future before him. We can't really comprehend that, but in theory, that includes ALL past -- which also means His past prior to exaltation, and which, perhaps (depending on one's view as to whether God the Father was always perfect, like the Savior, or might have been mortal like unto us) included stress... I don't know what that means or even what point I'm trying to make. But that's the thought that came out of my brain.

What I do think it means, by interpretation (as you said...semantics).... Stress by way of anxiety (or anxiety by way of stress) is, definitionally (argumentatively), NOT knowing the future. So God, knowing the future, can't have stress. He knows what's going to happen. Of course stress, more broadly, simple means pressure. So in that regard, if someone knew beyond a shadow of a doubt their kid was going to die tomorrow, I think the weight (pressure/stress) of that would exist. But the anxiety at not knowing things related to that (What life will be like without them? Can one go on? How will one's family be affected. Etc.) plays into that somewhat.

Anyhow...God already knows which of His children will be lost. He certainly has sorrow about that. But knowing of it eternally cannot, to my thinking, cause eternal stress. It's interesting. It is something I don't understand. God has eternal joy. A perfect joy. Somehow, that I can't fathom, that exists alongside His losing a great majority of His children, and being eternally aware of that. I don't know how that all works. So I live by faith. ;) 

While I take God's foreknowledge pretty seriously, I believe perfect/infinite foreknowledge is impossible, and is just one of those scriptural exaggerations (like endless punishment is a scriptural exaggeration "to be more express upon the mind")

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To the OP, 

We need to believe the scripture which says it's theoretically possible to be fearless.

Quote

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

There is a relationship between love and fear.  We've heard elsewhere that there is a relationship between faith and fear.  So there must be some sort of relationship between faith and love.  I wonder what it is?

We need to also listen to this scripture:

Quote

Taken with other scriptures I think that we can make a strong case that God really does want us to cast fear out of lives in general.  Like all of God's commandments, we should feel generally empowered to succeed at this.  But also like all of God's commandments, I guess we have to accept that we will fail to be perfect.  So if you are worried or afraid, don't be too hard on yourself.

But I do think that casting out your fear could be viewed as an act of repentance.

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24 minutes ago, popatr said:

While I take God's foreknowledge pretty seriously, I believe perfect/infinite foreknowledge is impossible, and is just one of those scriptural exaggerations (like endless punishment is a scriptural exaggeration "to be more express upon the mind")

What are you basing that on?

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