Stress, worry, and faith


laronius
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52 minutes ago, popatr said:

Largely my own "wisdom".  If it ends up being foolishness I hope God will forgive me.

 

I'm not sure there's anything that needs forgiving in it, but....

Forgive me for putting you on the spot a bit, but I'm sincerely curious as to why you think that conclusion is one of wisdom? What is it that leads you to want to or hope to believe that we shouldn't take the scriptures at their word concerning God's knowledge of the future? I'm curious.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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6 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm not sure there's anything that needs forgiving in it, but....

Forgive me for putting you on the spot a bit, but I'm sincerely curious as to why you think that conclusion is one of wisdom? What is it that leads you to want to or hope to believe that we shouldn't take the scriptures at their word concerning God's knowledge of the future? I'm curious.

I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek or ironic when using the word "wisdom" which is why I put it in quotes and put it in close proximity to foolishness.  So-called wisdom.

My belief, or lack of it, maybe stems from my computer science background.  I would compare absolute foreknowledge to a disk image of the entire universe.  Such a thing is entirely static and essentially lifeless.  A being who embodies such a disk image is stateless.  It is hard to say he even thinks, as we comprehend it.  The state is the state and we are just part of the state.  What we'll do already exists fully realized and written to the disk image.

I don't want to believe in, what feels to me, like a lifeless stateless being.  Such doctrine tastes bad to me, at least how I've been able to season it.

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59 minutes ago, popatr said:

I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek or ironic when using the word "wisdom" which is why I put it in quotes and put it in close proximity to foolishness.  So-called wisdom.

My belief, or lack of it, maybe stems from my computer science background.  I would compare absolute foreknowledge to a disk image of the entire universe.  Such a thing is entirely static and essentially lifeless.  A being who embodies such a disk image is stateless.  It is hard to say he even thinks, as we comprehend it.  The state is the state and we are just part of the state.  What we'll do already exists fully realized and written to the disk image.

I don't want to believe in, what feels to me, like a lifeless stateless being.  Such doctrine tastes bad to me, at least how I've been able to season it.

I understand. I do think it's a bit short-sighted, wisdom-of-man thinking to approach it that way. But I understand where you're coming from. Thanks.

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Just a few rambling personal thoughts on stress—nothing scripturally based. After my daughter died in a car accident 19 years ago, my emotional and mental health was impacted. I have not been to a counselor, but I believe I have developed some sort of PTSD and some OCD too. My stress levels over a few particular personal issues have become extreme. On the other hand, for example, we almost lost our home to foreclosure about 10 years ago, I was very calm, relying on faith. My faith and testimony has strengthened due to my daughter’s death, not diminished. So, how can my faith be stronger, yet my stress in certain areas be higher? I would think I could overcome my stress, but it seems to be increasing as time goes by. Perhaps mental/emotional/physical health has an impact on our stress that is not alleviated by personal faith and testimony. Any thoughts on this?

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4 hours ago, classylady said:

Just a few rambling personal thoughts on stress—nothing scripturally based. After my daughter died in a car accident 19 years ago, my emotional and mental health was impacted. I have not been to a counselor, but I believe I have developed some sort of PTSD and some OCD too. My stress levels over a few particular personal issues have become extreme. On the other hand, for example, we almost lost our home to foreclosure about 10 years ago, I was very calm, relying on faith. My faith and testimony has strengthened due to my daughter’s death, not diminished. So, how can my faith be stronger, yet my stress in certain areas be higher? I would think I could overcome my stress, but it seems to be increasing as time goes by. Perhaps mental/emotional/physical health has an impact on our stress that is not alleviated by personal faith and testimony. Any thoughts on this?

I'm no expert, but from what I've witnessed in others is that things like PTSD can have specific triggers that set it off. It's not faith related, just your mind finding it hard to cope with certain situations.

I am amazed by just how much influence our physical bodies have over our emotional and mental state. I use to think the things we thought and felt were always reflections of our true selves. Manifestations of our spirits. But more and more I'm seeing that's often not the case.

The chemical processes of the body can have a very big influence over these things . This makes it tricky in dealing with. For example, when we break our leg we know to take specific physical action to fix it. But our minds seem to exist in this crossover state between the physical and the spiritual so it becomes harder to know how to treat it when part of it is "broken," for lack of a better term. 

For some years now I've experienced anxiety leading up to certain types of travel activities, such as going backpacking. It made no sense because there was absolutely nothing about the trips that I was worried about, rather I knew I would really enjoy it. But over time the anxiety has gotten worse. For a while I felt the Spirit encouraging me go in spite of the anxiety, which I have come to see was because the time was coming when the anxiety leading up to the trip was just too much to make the joy of the trip worth it. But it has really frustrated me because there is no reason I've been able to identify for the way I feel. Fortunately it has not bled over into other things in life that we would normally consider as stressful so I am left to deal with this perplexing limitation in a certain area of my life.

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On 9/2/2022 at 10:32 AM, popatr said:

There is a relationship between love and fear.  We've heard elsewhere that there is a relationship between faith and fear.  So there must be some sort of relationship between faith and love.  I wonder what it is?

 

I've heard so many times that if we are prepared we shall not fear.  Is it because we relied on faith to get ourselves prepared?  Therefore the results of our efforts is having no fear?

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17 hours ago, mikbone said:

Unless you recognize that the Lord wants us to learn how to hit a curve ball and delight in so doing.

When I first read this I thought, "Cool, very wise." But as I was thinking about it I started questioning it. I cannot help but wonder if sometimes we are, as is said, "looking beyond the mark" when we think of things this way.

Yes, I know that eternally we all have to learn to hit curve balls, as it were. And yes, some of things that some face in life are related to that sort of eternal learning. For sure. I'm just not sure it's really what mortality is about or for.

It strikes me that "work[ing] out your own salvation with fear and trembling before him" isn't about swinging and missing and swinging and missing until we finally learn to connect, per se. Or about merely learning to enjoy the process of trying. It's about humility. In other words, we "work out" our salvation by coming unto, and following, and accepting the free salvation offered by the Savior, rather than developing our own prowess and getting good at finally hitting those curve balls -- or getting good at enjoying trying to hit the curve balls even though we don't connect. Learning to enjoy trying does bring happiness and satisfaction. And connecting with the odd pitch does bring us some happiness. But it's not where true joy lies. Rather, if we're trusting God, we have joy even if we never learn such things. But true joy comes from our relationship with God. Joy is knowing God. Anyone, even those without God, can delight in learning to hit a curve ball. But true joy can only be found through God.

Yes, we do have experiences that are for our good. Yes, we do learn line upon line. But mortality is restrictive in a way that seems to me, logically, to not really apply to the actual learning (or learning to learn -- or even learning to delight in learning). But some can't do those things in mortality. They can only obey and repent when they sin. Which is sufficient.

I wrote the following before working out a bit more what you were saying, so it may not apply, but I thought it was interesting so I'm leaving it. I realize you aren't talking about actually learning to hit the curve ball, but only finding joy in the trying... But anyhow....

Mortality, In some ways, is like if one were trying to teach their tweenager to drive, but doing so by blindfolding them and tying their arms behind their back, and then suggesting they'd be able to learn to drive better that way. We're sitting here in mortality blinded and restrained. We're just not going to become good drivers, for the most part. Eventually our restraints will be lifted. Then the actual learning starts, methinks. But in the meantime we're asked to put our faith and trust in the Lord. Just put your broken, crippled foot on the gas, because you've been asked to, and trust God.

Yes, some of us are more crippled than others. And I do think that for most, learning to enjoy learning is a wise course and will be useful to us in the eternities. But for some it isn't, and cannot be, the process, for a variety of reasons.

Just some thoughts. I still think your comment is cool.

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11 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

It strikes me that "work[ing] out your own salvation with fear and trembling before him" isn't about swinging and missing and swinging and missing until we finally learn to connect, per se. Or about merely learning to enjoy the process of trying. It's about humility. In other words, we "work out" our salvation by coming unto, and following, and accepting the free salvation offered by the Savior, rather than developing our own prowess and getting good at finally hitting those curve balls -- or getting good at enjoying trying to hit the curve balls even though we don't connect. Learning to enjoy trying does bring happiness and satisfaction. And connecting with the odd pitch does bring us some happiness. But it's not where true joy lies.

Just some thoughts. I still think your comment is cool.

Amen brother.

Ether 12:27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

D&C 130:18-21

Edited by mikbone
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