October 2022 Conference Discussion


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1 hour ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

It seems likely that the Dome will be untouched and that the temple will be built right next to it on the mount.

 

Perhaps, but I have a hard time believing that the Lord will move His most important temple around a bit so that the Muslims can retain their structure. Eventually every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. I cannot see at that point any structure that denotes another religion still standing. Eventually, by some means, it will be removed.

Another possibility I thought of is that it could be unintentionally destroyed as part of a conflict or natural disaster, and at that point the Jews decide to rebuild their temple in its place. This would cause outrage, and possibly be another motive for the world to attack Jerusalem. Perhaps the Lord's 2 Prophets defend the city during the temple's 3 1/2 year construction. At it's completion, and with their work done, they perish. The Lord would then return a few days later.

I have no firm opinion on the matter, but the miracles are coming regardless.

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3 hours ago, Vort said:

The Dome of the Rock mosque will never be demolished by the hand of those in the kingdom of God.

Oh no, I don't believe we/the church would ever do that. I doubt we will be involved at all in the actual building process. Scripture and prophecy are clear in that it will be rebuilt by the Jews. Will it be dedicated properly one day by a prophet...most likely. But Ephraim's main attention will be the temple in New Jerusalem, while Judah handles "old" Jerusalem.

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45 minutes ago, scottyg said:

Scripture and prophecy are clear in that it will be rebuilt by the Jews. Will it be dedicated properly one day by a prophet...most likely. But Ephraim's main attention will be the temple in New Jerusalem, while Judah handles "old" Jerusalem.

There is a very important part of Ezek 37 which most Latter-day Saints ignore because we tend to focus on the Stick of Judah and the Stick of Joseph/Ephraim.  Sectarians focus on the other parts ignoring the "sticks".

Only by looking at both of them together can we see what the chapter is really about.

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It's possible that the temple in Jerusalem is not constructed by our Church at all. It may very well be constructed as a Jewish temple which will then be turned over to the Lord's church after he comes to them. This quote might support that scenario.

Journal of Discourses, Wilford Woodruff 2:33

"When the Gentiles reject the Gospel it will be taken from them, and go to the house of Israel, to that long-suffering people that are now scattered abroad through all the nations upon the earth, and they will be gathered home by thousands, and by hundreds of thousands, and they will rebuild Jerusalem their ancient city, and make it more glorious than at the beginning, and they will have a leader in Israel with them, a man that is full of the power of God and the gift of the Holy Ghost; but they are held now from this work, only because the fulness of the Gentiles has not yet come in."

This man may be a member of the Church or maybe not, but it's possible that he is inspired to lead the Jewish people to rebuild their temple. It's clear that at the Lord's coming the Jews to a large degree have not yet converted to Christ. 

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Something that stuck out to me from Pres Nelson's Sunday morning talk:

"One crucial element of this gathering is preparing a people who are able, ready, and worthy to receive the Lord when He comes again.... I call upon you, my dear brothers and sisters, to become this righteous people."

The prophets rarely talk of the Second Coming in terms of timetables but this seems pretty indicative of where he believes we stand in relation to that event.

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I personally believe the 2nd coming of the LORD is not for years, but many difficult trials are coming upon the children of men soon.  We have wicked people in seats of authority that are trying to put in motion terrible things and the consequences will be awful upon the general population.  These people hate humankind.  How can anyone think otherwise with war to reduce farming and crops and to make gasoline and diesel products unaffordable?

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In contemplating the second coming, I think we sometimes tend to focus too much on the negatives. I think that the lead up to the second coming was accurately described by Charles Dickens when he wrote:

“It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.”


 Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities

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On 10/4/2022 at 7:06 AM, askandanswer said:

I'm so glad that this statement is referring to the future and not the present ;)

His warning is more meaningful than you may think.

While it is always desirable to have the constant influence of the Holy Ghost, we usually find time that allows for repentance and a road back to the Lord.

In a time not too far distant, we will find ourselves in a world where we make one slip up and we're caught up in a whirlwind that doesn't let us rest long enough to repent or get our bearings enough to find our way back to the Lord.

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On 10/3/2022 at 1:18 AM, person0 said:

I had considered the garments thing, but I interpreted it more in relation to the growing number of activist members who live or align with the LGBTQ+ lifestyle or in general, any who seek to impose their own will on the Lord, in disregard of his commandments, while expecting to claim the gift only he can provide.  It could have both meanings, though; yours is inherently included I think.  My wife suggested that many (in our area at least) will likely reflectively use Bednar's words to judge those who were against masking, though it seems this is a more present and future pointed message. 

As I listened to his talk again, I was surprised by the following:

1. The title of his talk is "Put On Thy Strength, O Zion."
2. He specifically talked about the M.O. of parables. 
3. Then he gave the following instruction.

Quote

The intended meaning or message of a parable typically is not expressed explicitly. Rather, the story only conveys divine truth to a receiver in proportion to his or her faith in God, personal spiritual preparation, and willingness to learn. Thus, an individual must exercise moral agency and actively “ask, seek, and knock” to discover the truths embedded in a parable.

I earnestly pray that the Holy Ghost will enlighten each of us as we now consider the importance of the parable of the royal marriage feast.

I think it is human nature to interpret messages from the receiver's viewpoint.  And, certainly, they will be based on some principles that the receiver deems to be righteous and reasonable.

But he specifically points out that the message in the parable is not supposed to be open to any interpretation to arrive at any conclusion even if it may be a true and virtuous principle.  I am reluctant to beat a dead horse, but he's basically telling us that we shouldn't create God in our image.  We need to remember our responsibility to reflect His image.

To do so, we must pray.  We must ask, seek, and knock.  A Divine parable has a Divine message.  His ways are not our ways.  We don't interpret the meaning to be something based on our wisdom.  We need to search for the wisdom the Lord wishes to impart to us.

So, what does it mean?

The title of the talk is a huge clue.

Quote

7 Questions by Elias Higbee: What is meant by the command in Isaiah, 52d chapter, 1st verse, which saith: Put on thy strength, O Zion—and what people had Isaiah reference to?

8 He had reference to those whom God should call in the last days, who should hold the power of priesthood to bring again Zion, and the redemption of Israel; and to put on her strength is to put on the authority of the priesthood, which she, Zion, has a right to by lineage; also to return to that power which she had lost.

 -- D&C 113:7-8

What is incomplete here is that the full verse is:

Quote

Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Remember that the vestment we wear are rightly called "The Garment of the Holy Priesthood."

But, I do agree that this is incomplete.  It is only a "first reading" message; there is more.  The physical is supposed to remind us of the spiritual.  The garment reminds us of covenants.  It is through obedience to covenants that we are clothed with priesthood power. (Note that this is for both men and women).

Now couple that with Pres Nelson's remarks...

I think it is still about the temple.  But the temple is much more than we give it credit for.  We should have much greater appreciation for it.

For those who have not yet gone to the temple, it should be a high priority to get there.
For those already endowed, we should be going back as often as we can.

Edited by Carborendum
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I've pondered that each prophet has had his special thing: a phrase, a topic, some emphasis for that time period.  For Pres. Nelson, I've found two things that keep coming up in so many of his talks and the emphasis in lessons, the church website, etc. for the past several years.

  • Let God Prevail
  • Hear Him

What do you think has been his emphasis? One of these? Or another topic?

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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

I've pondered that each prophet has had his special thing: a phrase, a topic, some emphasis for that time period.  For Pres. Nelson, I've found two things that keep coming up in so many of his talks and the emphasis in lessons, the church website, etc. for the past several years.

  • Let God Prevail
  • Hear Him

What do you think has been his emphasis? One of these? Or another topic?

Also:  “Covenant Path”.  But yes; the overall theme seems to be personal growth and reconciliation with the Savior through revelation and righteous living.

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2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I've pondered that each prophet has had his special thing: a phrase, a topic, some emphasis for that time period.  For Pres. Nelson, I've found two things that keep coming up in so many of his talks and the emphasis in lessons, the church website, etc. for the past several years.

  • Let God Prevail
  • Hear Him

What do you think has been his emphasis? One of these? Or another topic?

Helping people learn how to live in a higher and holier way, which goes along with "hear Him". The church is doing away with checklists for adults and youth in many areas, and are instead asking members to pray and receive revelation for themselves.

The Savior had no checklist...He simply did what was right, and learned to follow the spirit in His youth, which eventually led Him back to the high station where He was before He came to the earth. As we follow the Holy Ghost, we too will repent / return to the Father.

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16 minutes ago, scottyg said:

Helping people learn how to live in a higher and holier way, which goes along with "hear Him". The church is doing away with checklists for adults and youth in many areas, and are instead asking members to pray and receive revelation for themselves.

The Savior had no checklist...He simply did what was right, and learned to follow the spirit in His youth, which eventually led Him back to the high station where He was before He came to the earth. As we follow the Holy Ghost, we too will repent / return to the Father.

Yes, I've noticed that too.  This may be the primary reason why Elder Renlund gave the talk he did.  It was a balance to the message of finding personal revelation.  There are limits and guidelines that need to be adhered to. 

I remember a person who frequented this site a few years ago who insisted that his patriarchal blessing told him that he would correct the errors of the prophets and apostles of the Church.  I hope he gets the help he needs.

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