Why or why not, are you Excited about Twitter being freed?


Emmanuel Goldstein
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3 hours ago, LDSGator said:

You are watching the rantings of a mad man. 
 

and Kanye West. 
 

When even Alex Jones is extremely uncomfortable with what you're saying....maybe there's a problem.

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19 minutes ago, Godless said:

Looks like "free speech" still has limits under Musk. Good riddance.

20221202_104527.thumb.jpg.930c6de3eb7fc8785e6ff402e83fe9f6.jpgScreenshot_20221202_104332.thumb.jpg.5c3bdba7ba857d5acb403cb02cd58825.jpg

There are a two ways to look at this. One is to scream in horror that this kind of anti Semitic garbage exists. 

The other is to be thankful. Why?  Because the outcry against Kanye is so severe and harsh that one could easily argue that being pro Hitler and anti Semitic destroys your career in seconds. As it should. 

 

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10 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

There are a two ways to look at this. One is to scream in horror that this kind of anti Semitic garbage exists. 

The other is to be thankful. Why?  Because the outcry against Kanye is so severe and harsh that one could easily argue that being pro Hitler and anti Semitic destroys your career in seconds. As it should. 

 

This isn't a defense of Kanye in any way, because I doubt he knew this when he posted that symbol, but apparently it's not an anti-Semitic symbol, but actually a symbol used by a "UFO religion"

Raëlism - Wikipedia

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4 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

This isn't a defense of Kanye in any way, 

Understand fully. Not that it matters but I have a hard time believing that any LDS member could be anti Semitic. I’m sure they exist but it’s not common. To the credit of the church,  LDS aren't good at hating people. It’s against their nature. 

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7 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

This isn't a defense of Kanye in any way, because I doubt he knew this when he posted that symbol, but apparently it's not an anti-Semitic symbol, but actually a symbol used by a "UFO religion"

Raëlism - Wikipedia

I think this is a good example of "Never attribute to mal-intent, that which could easily be attributed to ignorance."

My guess is that he just thought it was something "cool." because he just didn't see the harm.  That's pretty ignorant.  But not evil.

I just don't see  Kanye as all that conscious of how his acts/words effect others.  He's just being an ignorant guy doing ignorant things.

Edited by Carborendum
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17 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

My guess is that he just thought it was something "cool." because he just didn't see the harm.  That's pretty ignorant.  But not evil.

No way. He knew it was evil, and did it intentionally. He also knew it would get him booted. His whole schtick is to try and destigmatize the ability to talk about certain things. He's going about it in a terrible way. But the provocative nature of doing outlandish things is his standard operating procedure. It's been ramped up, for sure. But it's perfectly in line with the Kanye who jumped up on stage with Taylor Swift saying, "Imma let you finish...."

He knew the harm. His delusion is that he seems to think his efforts will initiate change for the good.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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4 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Also slightly off topic- we all know that the swastika wasn’t originally based in hate. However it’s still an awful idea to use that symbol because it’s associated with Nazis. Did Kanye do something like that?

Yeah, that image above was posted by him on Twitter.

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7 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Understand fully. Not that it matters but I have a hard time believing that any LDS member could be anti Semitic. I’m sure they exist but it’s not common. To the credit of the church,  LDS aren't good at hating people. It’s against their nature. 

We only hate Missourians.

😃

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1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

No way. He knew it was evil, and did it intentionally. He also knew it would get him booted. His whole schtick is to try and destigmatize the ability to talk about certain things. He's going about it in a terrible way. But the provocative nature of doing outlandish things is his standard operating procedure. It's been ramped up, for sure. But it's perfectly in line with the Kanye who jumped up on stage with Taylor Swift saying, "Imma let you finish...."

He knew the harm. His delusion is that he seems to think his efforts will initiate change for the good.

Well, whatever it is.  He's got problems.  And I tend to pity him more than anything else.  Yah-yah.  He's a billionaire that I pity.  Well, he's a perfect case study in "money doesn't buy happiness."

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Godless

Freedom update:

Yesterday, Twitter suspended (and later reinstated) accounts that automatically report live locations of private jets, including Musk's. To be clear, this is very much public information. After reinstating the accounts, Musk himself clarified Twitter's new position on such accounts, calling it a form of doxxing (again, these accounts weren't sharing any information that wasn't already available to the public). Note the tweet directly above the tweet about the doxxing policy. Allegedly, the car had been stalking Lil Nas X's car, thinking it was Musk.

Screenshot_20221215_194014_Twitter.thumb.jpg.5ec0446ac837158929fdc2e1c864b249.jpg

 

 

Fast forward to this evening: 

 

 

Screenshot_20221215_193729_Twitter.thumb.jpg.8324896e89358ad685b73d1c28188604.jpg

Musk hasn't given an explanation for why these accounts were suspended. 

This was all just in the last 48 hours.

Edit: ANOTHER new development: the official Twitter account for Mastodon -the current favorite to replace Twitter if it breaks completely- has been suspended, and links to Mastodon now prompt the following screen when clicked:

Screenshot_20221215_210025_Chrome.thumb.jpg.1d815229879854a64074ed8323dd2a83.jpg

Edited by Godless
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Yes, I had just noticed that Musk is all for suppression of the press.

It IS his company though, and I do support one able to do whatever they want with their property.   He paid enough for it.

What I do not understand is how all these people who really dislike what he is doing and what is occurring on twitter, why they remain on twitter.

Stop using twitter and let Musk pay for those losses.  As it is, they are supporting him simply by using his platform.  If he can survive without their support (I don't think he could, but you never know.  I think it would fail if they all left and all he had remaining were his sycophants, but I'm no financial guru).

For those who love Musk, let them remain on his platform and let him do whatever he wants (unless or until it actually harms someone else).

It is ironic how he keeps trumpeting about this thing called free speech and then tries to do everything but allow it on his platform. (note: I still feel he should be allowed to do it, but I find his talk about it and his actions rather opposite of each other).

If I recall, trying to negate a free press was one of the reasons why the Founders of the Constitution, and especially those who were for the Bill of Rights, wanted to have something protecting free speech and the freedom of the press. 

Edited by JohnsonJones
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Guest Godless
35 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Yes, I had just noticed that Musk is all for suppression of the press.

It IS his company though, and I do support one able to do whatever they want with their property.   He paid enough for it.

I absolutely agree with this, to be clear. My objection to Musk mass-banning journalists isn't about 1A, because it doesn't apply here, but more about his hypocrisy. But ultimately, yes, it's his platform, and he's free to ban anyone he sees fit.

35 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

What I do not understand is how all these people who really dislike what he is doing and what is occurring on twitter, why they remain on twitter.

A lot of us have come to rely on Twitter as a quick, easy, and mostly reliable (if you do it right) news source. And for people in the vicinity of my age, it's generally better than FB for connecting with people with shared interests (I connect primarily with Beer Twitter and Ravens Twitter). Even with Musk's interference, it still serves the basic purposes that millions of users rely on it for, and no one can seem to agree on a viable alternative.

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3 minutes ago, Godless said:

I absolutely agree with this, to be clear. My objection to Musk mass-banning journalists isn't about 1A, because it doesn't apply here, but more about his hypocrisy. But ultimately, yes, it's his platform, and he's free to ban anyone he sees fit.

A lot of us have come to rely on Twitter as a quick, easy, and mostly reliable (if you do it right) news source. And for people in the vicinity of my age, it's generally better than FB for connecting with people with shared interests (I connect primarily with Beer Twitter and Ravens Twitter). Even with Musk's interference, it still serves the basic purposes that millions of users rely on it for, and no one can seem to agree on a viable alternative.

I've heard of a platform recently called Mastodon (I think that is what it is called) which is a twitter competitor which people are going to. 

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16 hours ago, Godless said:

Freedom update:

Yesterday, Twitter suspended (and later reinstated) accounts that automatically report live locations of private jets, including Musk's.

I work for a newspaper IRL.

Over the last several years there have been a number of big issues regarding invasion of privacy, up to and including lawsuits. This includes the infamous lawsuit between Hulk Hogan w/ Peter Thiel versus Gawker Media. 

Generally speaking, making real-time information available regarding where celebrities, CEOs, politicians, and others of such caliber are is indeed putting them in danger as their high profile makes them high-profile targets. Thus, bits like Gawker's infamous "Gawker Stalker" where they were *paying* for this information was pretty broadly denounced even before the lawsuit. 

These reporters should have known better, and if memory serves some of these same reporters were aghast at similar privacy leaks regarding Anita Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn, and others during the Gamergate bit in 2014 and 2015. 

That's what it all comes down to. 

So yeah, I'm with Musk on this one.

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6 hours ago, Godless said:

because it doesn't apply here, but more about his hypocrisy

He even said that he wished his “fiercest critics” to remain on Twitter, then goes about banning them. 
 

You won’t like this @Godless, but he’s acting like a leftist here. They love to talk about “open debate” as long as you basically agree with them. Musk is doing exactly that. Debate is fine, as long as you agree with him. 
 

Just to be clear, there’s a huge difference between “leftist” and “liberal” and yes, the MAGA set acts the same way. They just scream in rage or use name calling. Like a leftist. 

Edited by LDSGator
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3 hours ago, LDSGator said:

He even said that he wished his “fiercest critics” to remain on Twitter, then goes about banning them. 

Fierce critique and doxing aren't exactly the same. One could accuse him of being overly paranoid, but banning over that isn't exactly the same as just being a fierce critic.

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4 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Fierce critique and doxing aren't exactly the same. One could accuse him of being overly paranoid, but banning over that isn't exactly the same as just being a fierce critic.

While I do understand your POV, and I don’t disagree with it….I’m not sure tracking a plane is “doxxing”. I am not in the ATC world but isn’t that stuff already public and easily accessible? 
 

I could be wrong. Like you I am uncomfortable with it though. 

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Just now, LDSGator said:

While I do understand your POV, and I don’t disagree with it….I’m not sure tracking a plane is “doxxing”. I am not in the ATC world but isn’t that stuff already public and easily accessible?

That's beyond the point though. It may or may not be doxing. It doesn't need to be for Elon to be consistent. It only needs to be true that he THINKS it's doxing.

I'm not saying Elon has being consistent across the board. He hasn't. I just don't think this particular case is inconsistent in any regard.

FWIW, Elon claimed that tracking his plane was not possible without revealing private information. It seems clear he believes what was done crossed a doxing line. Which seems fine to me.

Moreover, they weren't permanent bans. They were warning bans sending a message. This isn't allowed. Which it probably shouldn't be. I'd also guess those banned would feel the exact same way as Elon did had their information been shared in like manner.

Now if the same thing happens to someone on the left and Musk shrugs it off and doesn't ban in like kind, sure....then he's behaving like a leftist. I wouldn't put it past him. Most people aren't entirely consistent. We all let our biases sway us, knowingly or not.

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17 hours ago, Ironhold said:

I work for a newspaper IRL.

Over the last several years there have been a number of big issues regarding invasion of privacy, up to and including lawsuits. This includes the infamous lawsuit between Hulk Hogan w/ Peter Thiel versus Gawker Media. 

Generally speaking, making real-time information available regarding where celebrities, CEOs, politicians, and others of such caliber are is indeed putting them in danger as their high profile makes them high-profile targets. Thus, bits like Gawker's infamous "Gawker Stalker" where they were *paying* for this information was pretty broadly denounced even before the lawsuit. 

These reporters should have known better, and if memory serves some of these same reporters were aghast at similar privacy leaks regarding Anita Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn, and others during the Gamergate bit in 2014 and 2015. 

That's what it all comes down to. 

So yeah, I'm with Musk on this one.

Are you talking about the flight tracker, the one that takes publicly available information and republished it.  All it did was look at the airport flight logs of departing and arriving aircraft and tallied it to match Elon Musk's tail.  It shortened a task from 2 minutes to a few seconds. 

The reporters who were reporting on his banning the flight tracker and what happened next weren't even reporting on this information, just the story itself.  Some of them gave a link to where the tracker was and where it is now, but they were just reporting the news.  They did not state the location of Musk or his aircraft from what seems to be being reported.

If you know his plane registry you can probably find where his tail is this exact moment.  This is public information so that we don't have plane crashes in the sky or if under 18,000ft that if a plane goes down we know the general vicinity to go looking for it. 

If he hates this information being out there he would be wise to do what the world's richest man did (or who has it now, presently) which was to simply sell his plane and rent planes instead.  This means he has no registration or tail numbers that can be connected to him and thus makes following his movements all that much harder if someone wanted to do so.

If Musk really considers this "Doxxing" his next step should be to ban the Federal government and the FAA from his site (saying they have accounts there) because they are the ones who are actually putting out this information for the public to see. 

Most Flight plans, even from Military aircraft while flying in the U.S. in non-military (MOA's, etc) airspace , are not secret or private information.  This is to ensure safety of the skies to the maximum amount they can. 

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15 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

That's beyond the point though. It may or may not be doxing. It doesn't need to be for Elon to be consistent. It only needs to be true that he THINKS it's doxing.

Some people have difficulty separating "politically motivated, trumped-up charges of inciting violence in some morally/logically twisted and hypothetical cause-effect relationship" vs a proven instance of someone's life being threatened as a DIRECT result of the action.

Rather, they don't have difficulty with separating them.  They just turn up the "blindness of convenience" to a Spinal Tap 11, so they can consider themselves morally consistent.

15 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

FWIW, Elon claimed that tracking his plane was not possible without revealing private information. It seems clear he believes what was done crossed a doxing line. Which seems fine to me.

It's funny that when people talk about this "publicly available information" argument.  "But it is already publicly available information."

That may be true.  But where do you get it?  How do you get it?  How many people even know how to do it?  The difficulty of the information (even if it is "publicly available") already puts a line of defense in place against -- let's call them "stalkers" for lack of a better convenient term.  Sweeney's tracker cuts through all that and makes it easy to harass a public figure.

(Note the bolded part is the biggest thing).

The difficulty is like a lock on a door.  If someone really wants to get through, they can.  But it will take much more time and/or effort.  And most burglars will simply try an unlocked door.  The goal of such mechanisms is not to completely prevent, but to discourage via difficulty.  This tracking bot removes the difficulty, and thus the discouragement.

That is why it is dangerous.  And, yes, it is very much like doxing.  Much information that is "exposed" via doxing is actually publicly available in bits and pieces.  But it is difficult to put all the pieces together from a dozen different sources to get coherent information.  But if a bot puts it all together for you, then...

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