Lehi's vision of the tree


romans8
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Am I understanding 1 Nephi 8 correctly?

Lehi sees a tree and partakes of its fruit (verses 10,11). After partaking, his soul was filled with
joy and he began to desire for his family to also partake (verse 12). His wife Sariah and his two sons 
come and partake of the fruit also (verse 16).  His other sons Laman and Lemuel would not (verses 18
and 35).

Verses 21-22 mention a group of many people who press forward on the path that leads to the tree.
Verse 23 says a mist of darkness arose which caused all the people of verses 21-22 to be lost. 

I can identify several groups of people after Lehi and family partook of the tree. The first set of 
people come to the path, do not hold unto the rod of iron, enter the mist of darkness, and are lost 
(verses 21-23).  The second set of people hold unto the rod of iron, go through the mist of darkness, 
partake of the fruit, experience shame due to the scoffing of those in the spacious building, and are 
lost (verses 24-25, 28).  A third set of people held unto the rod of iron, but did not go through the 
mist of darkness, and reach the tree (verse 30).  It appears that none in this third set heed the
scoffing so they are not lost. There is no mention of the existence of this mist of darkness until after 
Lehi, Sariah, Nephi, and Sam partake of the tree back in verse 16.

What is the mist of darkness and when does it arise in historical terms?

Verses 33-34 says that those in the spacious building "did point the finger of scorn at me and those 
that were partaking of the fruit also; but we heeded them not. These are the words of my father: For 
as many as heeded them, had fallen away".

Why does this latter part (33-34) seem to allude that all who partook of the fruit did not heed the 
scorners and were saved whereas verse 28 says the first set of people (who came after Lehi and
family) ate of the fruit, heeded the scorning, and became lost?  Is there a difference between the
scoffing (verse 28) and the scorning (verse 33)?

The *strait and narrow path, which led to the tree (verse 20,22), is footnoted to other scriptural 
passages (Matthew 7:14; 3 Nephi 31:18;  which is a reference to eternal life). Since eternal life is 
exaltation, this would mean that everyone else would be considered as lost because, even though
they had eaten the fruit, they still failed to keep on the strait and narrow path. This is in addition to
the lost people of verses 21-23.

Is that an accurate depiction?

Matteo

Edited by romans8
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14 minutes ago, romans8 said:

Am I understanding 1 Nephi 8 correctly?

Lehi sees a tree and partakes of its fruit (verses 10,11). After partaking, his soul was filled with
joy and he began to desire for his family to also partake (verse 12). His wife Sariah and his two sons 
come and partake of the fruit also (verse 16).  His other sons Laman and Lemuel would not (verses 18
and 35).

Verses 21-22 mention a group of many people who press forward on the path that leads to the tree.
Verse 23 says a mist of darkness arose which caused all the people of verses 21-22 to be lost. 

I can identify several groups of people after Lehi and family partook of the tree. The first set of 
people come to the path, do not hold unto the rod of iron, enter the mist of darkness, and are lost 
(verses 21-23).  The second set of people hold unto the rod of iron, go through the mist of darkness, 
partake of the fruit, experience shame due to the scoffing of those in the spacious building, and are 
lost (verses 24-25, 28).  A third set of people held unto the rod of iron, but did not go through the 
mist of darkness, and reach the tree (verse 30).  It appears that none in this third set heed the
scoffing so they are not lost. There is no mention of the existence of this mist of darkness until after 
Lehi, Sariah, Nephi, and Sam partake of the tree back in verse 16.

What is the mist of darkness and when does it arise in historical terms?

Verses 33-34 says that those in the spacious building "did point the finger of scorn at me and those 
that were partaking of the fruit also; but we heeded them not. These are the words of my father: For 
as many as heeded them, had fallen away".

Why does this latter part (33-34) seem to allude that all who partook of the fruit did not heed the 
scorners and were saved whereas verse 28 says the first set of people (who came after Lehi and
family) ate of the fruit, heeded the scorning, and became lost?  Is there a difference between the
scoffing (verse 28) and the scorning (verse 33)?

The *strait and narrow path, which led to the tree (verse 20,22), is footnoted to other scriptural 
passages (Matthew 7:14; 3 Nephi 31:18;  which is a reference to eternal life). Since eternal life is 
exaltation, this would mean that everyone else would be considered as lost because, even though
they had eaten the fruit, they still failed to keep on the strait and narrow path. This is in addition to
the lost people of verses 21-23.

Is that an accurate depiction?

Matteo

If you want the "official" interpretation you need to read chapters 11 & 12 where Nephi has the same vision but in his case has the benefit of an angel to tell him the interpretation.

But I would mention a few things that may not be obvious unless you were brought being taught this dream/vision.

First of all, it is assumed that everyone on the path must endure the mists of darkness, even if Lehi did not specifically mention it. Same goes for enduring the acorn from the building. Also, these mists do not represent any specific historical event as you will read in the other chapters.

Secondly, you shouldn't view the progress along the path to the tree in a strictly linear fashion. Even when people come unto Christ (the tree) they are still on the path (enduring to the end) and encountering the mists of darkness. The sad part about that second group of people is that they had received the gospel and partaken of it's fruit, which is a tentative promise of eternal life if they remain faithful, and then they fell away.

Lastly, we believe that everyone will eventually have the opportunity to be taught the correct path back to God, whether in this life or the next. Also, there are those who do for a time leave the path for whatever reason but because of the tender mercies of God eventually find their way back. But eventually anyone who wants to receive eternal life must come to the tree of life and partake of it's fruit and remain there.

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On 11/5/2022 at 10:36 AM, laronius said:

Also, these mists do not represent any specific historical event as you will read in the other chapters.

Nephi shows that there’s at least 3 layers of interpretation to Lehi’s dream. The first, as you note, is the personal path to salvation that invariable leads to the Savior. The second is a large scale explanation that centers on Jesus’ birth, the gospel message, apostasy, restoration, and Christ’s return. Nephi only explains some of this because he refers to John’s Apocalypse. The third is familial, tracing Nephi’s descendants and their covenant relationship with the Lord. The highlight is when they are visited by the Savior, followed by a period of apostasy, and a prophesied day of renewal and restoration.

There may be other interpretations, but these are the ones Nephi gave.

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On 11/5/2022 at 9:01 AM, romans8 said:

What is the mist of darkness and when does it arise in historical terms?

1 Ne. 12:17 And the mists of darkness are the temptations of the devil, which blindeth the eyes, and hardeneth the hearts of the children of men, and leadeth them away into broad roads, that they perish and are lost.
 

As far as when they arise in historical terms, I don't think the vision was meant to be chronological. It developed one concept at a time, first it taught Lehi what the tree was, then it taught what the rod was, then it taught what the mists were, but that wasn't meant to imply those things came into existence in that order. The temptations of the devil (mists of darkness) have been on the earth since the Garden of Eden. 

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On 11/5/2022 at 9:01 AM, romans8 said:

Verses 33-34 says that those in the spacious building "did point the finger of scorn at me and those that were partaking of the fruit also; but we heeded them not. These are the words of my father: For as many as heeded them, had fallen away".

Why does this latter part (33-34) seem to allude that all who partook of the fruit did not heed the scorners and were saved whereas verse 28 says the first set of people (who came after Lehi and family) ate of the fruit, heeded the scorning, and became lost?  Is there a difference between the scoffing (verse 28) and the scorning (verse 33)?

 

Notice that in verse 33, it says "we heeded them not". I think the "we" there only refers to Lehi, Nephi, Sam, and Sariah. I don't think the "we" includes everyone who made it to the tree, and the fact that many of them DID he heed the hecklers would support that interpretation. 

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On 11/5/2022 at 9:01 AM, romans8 said:

Since eternal life is exaltation, this would mean that everyone else would be considered as lost because, even though they had eaten the fruit, they still failed to keep on the strait and narrow path. This is in addition to the lost people of verses 21-23.

Is that an accurate depiction?

That sounds accurate to me. Anyone who falls short of exaltation, either by an inch or by a mile, is "lost" to some degree. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/28/2022 at 11:00 PM, mordorbund said:

@romans8 You've gotten some feedback, have you updated your understanding of Lehi's dream? What about after reading Nephi's guided tour?

I saw the feedback but didn't understand how some viewed it as non-linear time events.

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On 12/3/2022 at 8:24 AM, romans8 said:

I saw the feedback but didn't understand how some viewed it as non-linear time events.

What I meant by non-linear was that the blessing of the love of God, as represented by the fruit, and even in a sense eternal life are not held back until only after you have reached some predefined point of progression. The moment we enter the path by baptism and covenant those blessings become available to us immediately. There is still much progress along the path that is required of us but so long as we remain faithful and endure to the end we are promised a fullness of those same blessings. Those who fell away after partaking of the fruit were still in the process of moving along that path when they allowed the world to distract them and they moved off the path and therefore away from the tree of life at the same time.

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On 11/5/2022 at 10:01 AM, romans8 said:

Am I understanding 1 Nephi 8 correctly?

Lehi sees a tree and partakes of its fruit (verses 10,11). After partaking, his soul was filled with
joy and he began to desire for his family to also partake (verse 12). His wife Sariah and his two sons 
come and partake of the fruit also (verse 16).  His other sons Laman and Lemuel would not (verses 18
and 35).

Verses 21-22 mention a group of many people who press forward on the path that leads to the tree.
Verse 23 says a mist of darkness arose which caused all the people of verses 21-22 to be lost. 

I can identify several groups of people after Lehi and family partook of the tree. The first set of 
people come to the path, do not hold unto the rod of iron, enter the mist of darkness, and are lost 
(verses 21-23).  The second set of people hold unto the rod of iron, go through the mist of darkness, 
partake of the fruit, experience shame due to the scoffing of those in the spacious building, and are 
lost (verses 24-25, 28).  A third set of people held unto the rod of iron, but did not go through the 
mist of darkness, and reach the tree (verse 30).  It appears that none in this third set heed the
scoffing so they are not lost. There is no mention of the existence of this mist of darkness until after 
Lehi, Sariah, Nephi, and Sam partake of the tree back in verse 16.

What is the mist of darkness and when does it arise in historical terms?

Verses 33-34 says that those in the spacious building "did point the finger of scorn at me and those 
that were partaking of the fruit also; but we heeded them not. These are the words of my father: For 
as many as heeded them, had fallen away".

Why does this latter part (33-34) seem to allude that all who partook of the fruit did not heed the 
scorners and were saved whereas verse 28 says the first set of people (who came after Lehi and
family) ate of the fruit, heeded the scorning, and became lost?  Is there a difference between the
scoffing (verse 28) and the scorning (verse 33)?

The *strait and narrow path, which led to the tree (verse 20,22), is footnoted to other scriptural 
passages (Matthew 7:14; 3 Nephi 31:18;  which is a reference to eternal life). Since eternal life is 
exaltation, this would mean that everyone else would be considered as lost because, even though
they had eaten the fruit, they still failed to keep on the strait and narrow path. This is in addition to
the lost people of verses 21-23.

Is that an accurate depiction?

Matteo

You have gotten a number of replies -- what remains your most important question about 1 Nephi 8, or more broadly, about Lehi's and Nephi's visions of the tree of life?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/4/2022 at 7:29 PM, CV75 said:

You have gotten a number of replies -- what remains your most important question about 1 Nephi 8, or more broadly, about Lehi's and Nephi's visions of the tree of life?

No extra question other than the different groups which I identified.

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