Why don't we use church buildings as homeless shelters?


Backroads
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I intend this as the most straightforward way to pose the question without any hidden implications. Read an article about needs for more beds for the homeless because winter is coming. Invariably, someone in the comments section asks why the LDS church doesn't use the church as a homeless shelter during the week or at night. Now, this isn't the first time I've heard this question. Apparently it is a decades-old, world-wide question of why churches aren't always homeless shelters.

While of course you'll always find a few examples of churches that have done exactly this, in the western world it's just not much of a thing. The big reasons tend to be.

1. It costs money. Even in the best of circumstances that's a lot of extra wear and tear on a building. Security guards, clean-up, repairs, etc. That's a money pit when that same money could be used in other ways to help others. 

2. It's usually illegal. Turns out a lot of places have standards for homeless shelters that most churches don't reach. Plus a homeless shelter may not be zoned for the area.

3. Many churches just want to be a house of worship first and foremost.

So, while I think our church could actually afford to handle this and legalities are ultimately red tape that could be changed, do you think this is a direction we would ever go?

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I’ve seen it done in times of emergency.  But generally speaking . . .
 

Contrary to what many folks will tell you, homelessness (at least in the US) is not merely an inevitable product of poverty.  It is usually (not always, but usually) a product of poverty in conjunction with deeply antisocial behaviors (generally a result of untreated mental illness, drug use, or some combination of the two).  I’ve worked with people who had stayed at The Road Home or other shelters in the Wasatch Front.  The things they encountered at those shelters were horrifying.  Drugs were rampant, physical violence and sexual assault were not uncommon, and filth was uncontrollable.

On the whole, I’d rather take my kids to church at a maximum security prison than a homeless shelter—the security is better, prison inmates are held to a higher behavioral standard, and they face more rigorous displinary procedures.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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6 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’ve seen it done in times of emergency.  But generally speaking . . .
 

Contrary to what many folks will tell you, homelessness (at least in the US) is not merely an inevitable product of poverty.  It is usually (not always, but usually) a product of poverty in conjunction with deeply antisocial behaviors (generally a result of untreated mental illness, drug use, or some combination of the two).  I’ve worked with people who had stayed at The Road Home or other shelters in the Wasatch Front.  The things they encountered at those shelters were horrifying.  Drugs were rampant, physical violence and sexual assault were not uncommon, and filth was uncontrollable.

On the whole, I’d rather take my kids to church at a maximum security prison than a homeless shelter—the security is better, prison inmates are held to a higher behavioral standard, and they face more rigorous displinary procedures.  

The husband would sometimes do security shifts down at The Road Home and says it was a nightmare. Celebrated solutions like Palmer Court and The Magnolia are horror stories in and of themselves. 

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19 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’ve seen it done in times of emergency.  But generally speaking . . .
 

Contrary to what many folks will tell you, homelessness (at least in the US) is not merely an inevitable product of poverty.  It is usually (not always, but usually) a product of poverty in conjunction with deeply antisocial behaviors (generally a result of untreated mental illness, drug use, or some combination of the two).  I’ve worked with people who had stayed at The Road Home or other shelters in the Wasatch Front.  The things they encountered at those shelters were horrifying.  Drugs were rampant, physical violence and sexual assault were not uncommon, and filth was uncontrollable.

On the whole, I’d rather take my kids to church at a maximum security prison than a homeless shelter—the security is better, prison inmates are held to a higher behavioral standard, and they face more rigorous displinary procedures.  

You also have to consider that people have to *want* to be helped, and some people who are victims of substance abuse, poor mental illness, or so forth either don't want to be helped out of their plight or don't even realize they're in a bad way to begin with. That's a big part of the problem.

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Nope. Only in instances of natural disasters are church buildings opened up as shelter to the community, and for good reason. Our church is busy every day of the week except Monday. On each of the other 6 days it has multiple functions taking place, many including children. Some may call me a bigot, but I would outright refuse to attend church in a building used to shelter the homeless. I will not worship, or allow my children to have their activities, in the same area as drugs, feces and filth, used needles and condoms, alcohol and all other nasty aspects of homeless culture.

If persons criticize the church over this issue, then we can do a trial run with their house; that way, those persons get to be the crew that clean up after the homeless each morning. Their tune would change if they spent just one day actually in and around that community of people. The homeless love to push boundaries, and being housed in a place of worship would mean nothing to them in regards to changing their attitudes and behavior. These people need help, but as Ironhold said, many of them do not want it. Some truly are down on their luck, and need a true lift up, and I am more than willing to offer assistance, but others choose to be homeless. The legal ramifications would also be enormous if the church were to undertake something like that.

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21 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’ve seen it done in times of emergency.  But generally speaking . . .
 

It is usually (not always, but usually) a product of poverty in conjunction with deeply antisocial behaviors (generally a result of untreated mental illness, drug use, or some combination of the two).  I’ve worked with people who had stayed at The Road Home or other shelters in the Wasatch Front.  The things they encountered at those shelters were horrifying.  Drugs were rampant, physical violence and sexual assault were not uncommon, and filth was uncontrollable.

On the whole, I’d rather take my kids to church at a maximum security prison than a homeless shelter—the security is better, prison inmates are held to a higher behavioral standard, and they face more rigorous displinary procedures.  

Yep.

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13 minutes ago, scottyg said:

If persons criticize the church over this issue, then we can do a trial run with their house;

100% agree. The “churches should open their doors to the homeless” :: ahem :: “argument” is almost always used by people who don’t even give to charity, much less open their own doors to people in need.
 

Classic NIMBY behavior

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On 11/10/2022 at 12:50 PM, Backroads said:

I intend this as the most straightforward way to pose the question without any hidden implications. Read an article about needs for more beds for the homeless because winter is coming. Invariably, someone in the comments section asks why the LDS church doesn't use the church as a homeless shelter during the week or at night. Now, this isn't the first time I've heard this question. Apparently it is a decades-old, world-wide question of why churches aren't always homeless shelters.

While of course you'll always find a few examples of churches that have done exactly this, in the western world it's just not much of a thing. The big reasons tend to be.

1. It costs money. Even in the best of circumstances that's a lot of extra wear and tear on a building. Security guards, clean-up, repairs, etc. That's a money pit when that same money could be used in other ways to help others. 

2. It's usually illegal. Turns out a lot of places have standards for homeless shelters that most churches don't reach. Plus a homeless shelter may not be zoned for the area.

3. Many churches just want to be a house of worship first and foremost.

So, while I think our church could actually afford to handle this and legalities are ultimately red tape that could be changed, do you think this is a direction we would ever go?

 

I would say the #1 reason is costs.  The costs would be the cost to repair things.

You have many different people that are homeless and many different types of people.  Unfortunately, it is normally the worst of people that make it hard for everyone else.  Homeless communities are notorious for tearing things up and destroying things.

While I expect a great majority of the Homeless to be grateful should we ever house homeless in our chapels, a small contingent of them would probably steal anything not locked down, and break a LOT of the furniture, bathroom, utilities, and even walls.  Those costs skyrocket incredibly fast without a LOT of supervision to ensure it doesn't happen.

The Church does not have three or four people at each chapel 24 hours a day.  I've seen buildings be destroyed in a week, be repaired, and then a week later destroyed again as soon as the homeless population came in again.

Repeatedly having Chapels destroyed like that is not something I think the Church could actually afford, and they probably don't have the funds to pay for the manpower to secure it enough to not have it occur. 

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The church has to main thrusts and effort to long these lines.  The first is the church welfare system, used to take care of our own.  For helping others in the world, the church focuses mainly on disaster cleanup efforts.

We also do other things like bring power and clean water to places, who are team up with other charitable organizations for various global efforts.

If you do a word search on “the poor” in our scriptures, you see an awful lot of admonition for disciples to act as individuals in their communities. In my stake, we’ve partnered up with the Catholics who run a soup kitchen, and non-denominational folks who run a food bank. The stake will often ask for 15 to 20 volunteers a quarter to go work in these various places.

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2 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

a small contingent of them would probably steal anything not locked down, and break a LOT of the furniture, bathroom, utilities, and even walls. 

Actually it is quite the opposite.  MOST of them would do the above.  I deal with the homeless population on an almost daily basis and this is how they act as a majority.

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6 hours ago, mirkwood said:

Actually it is quite the opposite.  MOST of them would do the above.  I deal with the homeless population on an almost daily basis and this is how they act as a majority.

I once read a rather good article on how the skills to survive as homeless are often opposite those to live sheltered. Planning for the long-term is, sadly, often a bad idea and destruction to fulfill immediate needs is too often what happens 

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19 hours ago, Backroads said:

I once read a rather good article on how the skills to survive as homeless are often opposite those to live sheltered. Planning for the long-term is, sadly, often a bad idea and destruction to fulfill immediate needs is too often what happens 

I can see that.  I wonder, though, if the cause and effect are actually backwards.  I really don't know.

I've mentioned that I was once homeless.  But for me, I always knew it was temporary.  It was not a lifestyle.  It was several months, not even close to a year.  I had long term plans and long term goals. 

For me, it was a choice.  A temporary choice, but a choice.  I had options of staying with family and so forth.  But I had a mentality of independence.  I did not want to leech off of other people.  So, I chose it as a temporary measure.

I made sure that I could have the bare minimum to be able to maintain a job.  I knew that was part of how I'd get out of it.  I knew what it took to keep a job and how to obtain what I needed to get those things.

I wonder if most others choose a different path because they have different priorities.  They don't choose to keep a job.  They choose something else.  And we see the result.

I'm reminded of "Pursuit of Happyness".  In real life the internship gave him a modest stipend to live off of (the movie said he had no salary).  It wasn't enough to house him and his son.  But it was enough to keep him going during the internship.

  • The homeless shelter helped connect him with someone to take care of his son while he was at work.  The movie said that he kept going to the child care center.  It wasn't really clear what the details of the real life arrangement was.
  • He always kept his belongings with him as much as he could because he knew about the theft at shelters.  And he knew that his suit was an integral part of keeping his job.
  • He never told anyone about his hardship.  He knew that would cast a bad light on him.  And he didn't want sympathy points.

Those were the priorities he had during that time.

What are the priorities of most homeless people?  Are they valuing the right things?  Do they have worthy goals?  Are they working towards those goals?  I really don't know.  So, I'm asking.

But life lessons tell me that values and priorities shape a person's life as much as or more than the trials we have to face.  Often the values and priorities shape how we respond to our trials.

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20 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I can see that.  I wonder, though, if the cause and effect are actually backwards.  I really don't know.

I've mentioned that I was once homeless.  But for me, I always knew it was temporary.  It was not a lifestyle.  It was several months, not even close to a year.  I had long term plans and long term goals. 

For me, it was a choice.  A temporary choice, but a choice.  I had options of staying with family and so forth.  But I had a mentality of independence.  I did not want to leech off of other people.  So, I chose it as a temporary measure.

I made sure that I could have the bare minimum to be able to maintain a job.  I knew that was part of how I'd get out of it.  I knew what it took to keep a job and how to obtain what I needed to get those things.

I wonder if most others choose a different path because they have different priorities.  They don't choose to keep a job.  They choose something else.  And we see the result.

I'm reminded of "Pursuit of Happyness".  In real life the internship gave him a modest stipend to live off of (the movie said he had no salary).  It wasn't enough to house him and his son.  But it was enough to keep him going during the internship.

  • The homeless shelter helped connect him with someone to take care of his son while he was at work.  The movie said that he kept going to the child care center.  It wasn't really clear what the details of the real life arrangement was.
  • He always kept his belongings with him as much as he could because he knew about the theft at shelters.  And he knew that his suit was an integral part of keeping his job.
  • He never told anyone about his hardship.  He knew that would cast a bad light on him.  And he didn't want sympathy points.

Those were the priorities he had during that time.

What are the priorities of most homeless people?  Are they valuing the right things?  Do they have worthy goals?  Are they working towards those goals?  I really don't know.  So, I'm asking.

But life lessons tell me that values and priorities shape a person's life as much as or more than the trials we have to face.  Often the values and priorities shape how we respond to our trials.

 

I'm not positive, but I think part of it may be dependent on WHY you are homeless.

Some who are medically sick and disabled may not be able to hold a job.  That may be why they lost a job and ability for stability in the first place.  Medical debt is the number 1 reason for bankruptcy in the US from what I hear, and a major reason for people also becoming homeless.  If you are sick and unable to get better it can be hard to work on other things.

Some may have made poor choices and gotten addicted to drugs (alcohol also being a drug).  With so much of their attention stuck on their addiction, without help it may be hard or impossible for them to focus on something better. 

Some may just enjoy BEING homeless.  No ties to keep them down. 

I think situations vary between different people.

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On 11/14/2022 at 9:29 AM, Carborendum said:

I wonder if most others choose a different path because they have different priorities.  They don't choose to keep a job.  They choose something else.  And we see the result.  I'm reminded of "Pursuit of Happyness". 

 

I loved the movie Pursuit of Happyness.  In the past I have watched it several times.  I also read that drug problems helped push him into homelessness.  Bottom line for the film in the message it is pushing (in my opinion) is to have good goals, review them often and never stop working towards them despite hardships and obstacles.

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3 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

 

I loved the movie Pursuit of Happyness.  In the past I have watched it several times.  I also read that drug problems helped push him into homelessness.  Bottom line for the film in the message it is pushing (in my opinion) is to have good goals, review them often and never stop working towards them despite hardships and obstacles.

Outstanding movie. Agree totally with you. 

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