Thoughts about the Moscow murders

[Traveler]

Moscow was my first area is served in on my mission.  I taught mostly college students in Moscow Idaho and Pullman Washington.  The area is more country than city.  A lot of wheat is grown in that area.  I would guess that 99% of the students are from somewhere else.  Neither city is very big.  The two cities are not far apart as they are both close to the borders of their states.  And yet the two cities and colleges are as different as possible.  This is probably the reason that the news talks only about Moscow and the students there and never anything about Pullman or those students.  The city of Troy Idaho has been mentioned even though it is farther away.

My impression is that though they may have a profile for the perpetrators that they do not have much to go on.  I will not speculate beyond the thought that something very dark was going on and I speculate that for political or other reasons the darkness that was going on is being held back from the public.

As a side note – I was training a new elder on his first night in the mission when we got picked up in the city of Troy on suspicion of bank robbery and murder by the FBI.  It did not help that our empty-headed district leader had no idea who we were when the FBI called and asked if he knew who we were with our first names and not elder.  We ended up cleared by the brethren in SLC.  For 3 days after our release we were followed by the FBI and learned about their following us when they showed at our apartment to debrief us on what we saw before they picked us up.

 

The Traveler

[Vort]

For the benefit of those who have not lived in the northwest US, the city's name is pronounced MOSS-koh, not MOSS-cow.

[mikbone]

5 hours ago, Traveler said:

As a side note – I was training a new elder on his first night in the mission when we got picked up in the city of Troy on suspicion of bank robbery and murder by the FBI.

Maybe you should go into some more detail here…

[Traveler]

10 hours ago, mikbone said:

Maybe you should go into some more detail here…

Okay - then - a little more detail.  A winter storm was coming through, it is common for winter to be quite windy and cold.  Most stayed inside.  The Sunday before (when I knew I would have a new green companion) a family showed up for church and I was able to set up a first discussion at their place in Troy for my new companion’s first night in the area.  We did not have a car so we had to get a member to drop us off in Troy – so I planned to do as much as possible while we were there until someone would pick up later at night. 

Missionaries do not listen to any news, so we had no idea that there had been a bank robbery in Troy with a shootout and a policeman killed – neither did the student that dropped us off in his car.  Most of the robbers had gotten away with a couple of hostages but one of the robbers was left behind or something.  The FBI was brought in.  There was intel, perhaps form the captured robber that the robbers would retaliate against employees of the bank unless the one caught was released.   That is as much of a back story as I ever knew.

The family that we had a discussion with would not answer their door – though we were quite sure they were home – nor would anyone else in the town but we had no idea why.  We had not planned to be in the cold storm so long.  We were dressed somewhat warm but we were getting quite cold and had about an hour before we would have a ride pickup.  In our hope to get into some home (I speculate a bank employee) we ended up in the middle of the FBI stake out – I was not sure how many but it seemed there were more than a dozen.

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

13 hours ago, Vort said:

For the benefit of those who have not lived in the northwest US, the city's name is pronounced MOSS-koh, not MOSS-cow.

Unless you intend to be sarcastic and tick someone off. 

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

On the Moscow murders: 

If you are morbidly interested in true crime, several podcasts like Going West and Unresolved have fascinating episodes on it. 

[LDSGator]

@Travelersuspect caught. 
 

https://www.fox13news.com/news/bryan-christopher-kohberger-moscow-idaho-murders-suspect-arrest?mibextid=Zxz2cZ

[Traveler]

14 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

@Travelersuspect caught. 
 

https://www.fox13news.com/news/bryan-christopher-kohberger-moscow-idaho-murders-suspect-arrest?mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Both strange and not so strange plot twist.  The students at Idaho and Washington State connect a lot socially – especially when drinking (cannot remember which state has a lower drinking age – I think it is Idaho).   It is hard for me to understand what would motivate what he did.  I would like to know if this guy has mental issues in his history – especially if he was proscribed psychotropic drugs and also has used illegal drugs and/or used marijuana.

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, Traveler said:

did.  I would like to know if this guy has mental issues in his history – especially if he was proscribed psychotropic drugs and also has used illegal drugs and/or used marijuana.

One of the creepiest things that you have to accept about life is that some people out there will do unspeakably evil things because they are evil. You can try to blame porn, drugs, or mental illness. But in the end, he might just be flat out evil. 

[Vort]

7 minutes ago, Traveler said:

(cannot remember which state has a lower drinking age – I think it is Idaho)

Both states--I believe all US states today--have a drinking age of 21. When I was a child living in Pullman (home of Washington State University and only a few miles from Moscow, Idaho), Idaho's drinking age was 19. Every weekend you had an exodus of WSU students driving to Moscow and filling up the bars there, then making their way home later. Drunken driving deaths were, shall we say, not unheard of.

[LDSGator]

4 minutes ago, Vort said:

Both states--I believe all US states today--have a drinking age of 21. When I was a child living in Pullman (home of Washington State University and only a few miles from Moscow, Idaho), Idaho's drinking age was 19. Every weekend you had an exodus of WSU students driving to Moscow and filling up the bars there, then making their way home later. Drunken driving deaths were, shall we say, not unheard of.

Same with northern New England kids sneaking into Canada pre 9/11. 😞 

[Backroads]

19 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

One of the creepiest things that you have to accept about life is that some people out there will do unspeakably evil things because they are evil. You can try to blame porn, drugs, or mental illness. But in the end, he might just be flat out evil. 

I absolutely believe this.

On a potentially more koo-koo note, I wonder if we don't have more people out there possessed by demons than we dare imagine. Sure, a lot of possessions in days of yore could be chalked up to unrecognized mental illness, but I don't entirely doubt we don't have the opposite problem.

[LDSGator]

1 minute ago, Backroads said:

I absolutely believe this.

On a potentially more koo-koo note, I wonder if we don't have more people out there possessed by demons than we dare imagine. Sure, a lot of possessions in days of yore could be chalked up to unrecognized mental illness, but I don't entirely doubt we don't have the opposite problem.

I don’t disagree with you either. Demonic possession absolutely exists. 

[Carborendum]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:20 PM, Vort said:

For the benefit of those who have not lived in the northwest US, the city's name is pronounced MOSS-koh, not MOSS-cow.

I kind of wonder why we pronounce the Russian city as we do.  The Russian pronunciation is "Mosk-Vwuh".  I'd think a transliteration should be more like Moskway.

Whatever.

EDIT: https://www.rbth.com/education/330729-moscow-moskva-russia-capital

Edited December 30, 2022 by Carborendum

[Traveler]

On 12/30/2022 at 11:33 AM, LDSGator said:

One of the creepiest things that you have to accept about life is that some people out there will do unspeakably evil things because they are evil. You can try to blame porn, drugs, or mental illness. But in the end, he might just be flat out evil. 

 

On 12/30/2022 at 11:54 AM, Backroads said:

I absolutely believe this.

On a potentially more koo-koo note, I wonder if we don't have more people out there possessed by demons than we dare imagine. Sure, a lot of possessions in days of yore could be chalked up to unrecognized mental illness, but I don't entirely doubt we don't have the opposite problem.

I am of the notion that every individual comes into this life as a righteous son or daughter of G-d.  I speculate that nothing good can be accomplished in this life without the influence of the Holy Ghost and in contrast that nothing evil happens without the influence of Satan.  I also speculate that drugs and alcohol inhibit divine spiritual influences and make a person more susceptible to submission and bondage.  

 

The Traveler

[Still_Small_Voice]

On 12/30/2022 at 11:56 AM, LDSGator said:

I don’t disagree with you either. Demonic possession absolutely exists. 

I have been reading different accounts and listening to the experiences of others and I think we would be shocked at how many people regularly dabble with unclean spirits and demons.  In my opinion those that dabble in sexual immorality and pornography regularly deal with these spirits.

These are not the only sins that bring devils and unclean spirits to you and inside of you, but committing the sin next to murder brings bad consequences. 

"Flee fornication. Every other sin which a man doeth is outside the body, but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

What?  Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you and which ye have from God, and that ye are not your own?  For ye are bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s."  -- I Corinthians 6:18 to 20 -- 21st Century King James Version

Edited January 3, 2023 by Still_Small_Voice

[LDSGator]

15 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

I have been reading different accounts and listening to the experiences of others and I think we would be shocked at how many people regularly dabble with unclean spirits and demons.  In my opinion those that dabble in sexual immorality and pornography regularly deal with these spirits.

These are not the only sins that bring devils and unclean spirits to you and inside of you, but committing the sin next to murder brings bad consequences. 

"Flee fornication. Every other sin which a man doeth is outside the body, but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body."  -- I Corinthians 6:18 21st Century King James Version

We absolutely agree that porn and sexual immorality are sinful. Couldn't agree more. In fact, I go a step further. I think there are good, secular reasons to avoid porn and sexual immorality. Same with gambling. No good can come from any of those activities. See? I’m much more prudish than people think! 😜 
 

Having said that I don’t go as far as to say those who engage in those activities are “demon filled.” People are human and humans can be very weak at times. Also, just because you’ve made mistakes in the past doesn’t mean you are beyond forgiveness, damaged goods or innately evil. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by LDSGator

[Still_Small_Voice]

25 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Having said that I don’t go as far as to say those who engage in those activities are “demon filled.” People are human and humans can be very weak at times. Also, just because you’ve made mistakes in the past doesn’t mean you are beyond forgiveness, damaged goods or innately evil. 

100% agree.  If you turn to the LORD and repent of your sins He will forgive you. 

One of my favorite scriptures is in the Inspired Version of the Bible.  Psalms 30:4 to 5 reads: "Sing unto the Lord, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.  For his anger kindleth against the wicked; they repent, and in a moment it is turned away, and they are in his favor, and he giveth them life; therefore, weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning."

Amulek also taught:  "Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you."  -- Alma 34:31

[Traveler]

7 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

I have been reading different accounts and listening to the experiences of others and I think we would be shocked at how many people regularly dabble with unclean spirits and demons.  In my opinion those that dabble in sexual immorality and pornography regularly deal with these spirits.

These are not the only sins that bring devils and unclean spirits to you and inside of you, but committing the sin next to murder brings bad consequences. 

"Flee fornication. Every other sin which a man doeth is outside the body, but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

What?  Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you and which ye have from God, and that ye are not your own?  For ye are bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s."  -- I Corinthians 6:18 to 20 -- 21st Century King James Version

I agree and have something to say about this.  I used to travel a great deal when I was working.  Some years I was traveling as much as I was home.  Since there was not much else to do often I would work 12 to 14 hour days to finish so I could go home as soon as possible.  Often after a long day I felt the need to unwind so I would turn on the TV at the hotel.  Often when the TV came on it was displaying porn.  I mentioned this to a friend and he said that it often happened to him as well.  He said he was able to end that problem by using the priesthood to pronounce a blessing on his hotel room and cast out unclean spirits.  Having learned this – I have never had this problem since.

I mentioned this later in life to a close friend and neighbor that was a psychiatrist.  I mentioned that it seemed to me that unclean spirits that had influenced previous hotel residents and had infected to hotel room.  My friend said that during his practice he discovered that many of his patients started having the same problem as previous patients he was seeing.  It was as though they were infected.  He decided to perform blessings to clean his office and the problems went away.  I speculate that unclean spirits are responsible for a lot more than modern society is willing to give credit.  I also speculate that many issues that cause what appears to be mental confusion, depression and especially anger is spread like a pandemic on societies that does nothing tp build up spiritual immunity.

 

The Traveler

[JohnsonJones]

Well, when I first saw the title of the thread I thought it was referring to something that happened in Russia.

After reading it I realize it is talking about the murders in Idaho.  Sad thing.  It seems the suspect was a Criminal Justice Graduate student who was studying crime. 

[Jedi_Nephite]

Has anyone read the affidavit for the suspect’s arrest warrant?  The details of this case are bizarre.  Apparently, one of the surviving roommates claims she saw the suspect walk past her and leave the house.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/idaho-affidavit-redacted-3/cfe7c9947da66b8c/full.pdf

[Traveler]

Strange as it may seem - there are indications that the suspect was involved with illegal drugs.  It seems to me that drug are more related to homicidal tendencies than the availability of firearms – which would make gun control a useless endeavor.

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

Strange as it may seem - there are indications that the suspect was involved with illegal drugs.  It seems to me that drug are more related to homicidal tendencies than the availability of firearms – which would make gun control a useless endeavor.

 

The Traveler

Where are you seeing that?

[Still_Small_Voice]

3 hours ago, Traveler said:

Strange as it may seem - there are indications that the suspect was involved with illegal drugs.  It seems to me that drug are more related to homicidal tendencies than the availability of firearms – which would make gun control a useless endeavor.

The Traveler

What types of drugs lead toward violent and homicidal behaviors in your opinion?  I think methamphetamine is one of them.  Heard from other sources methamphetamine can make one paranoid and delusional.

[Ironhold]

2 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

What types of drugs lead toward violent and homicidal behaviors in your opinion?  I think methamphetamine is one of them.  Heard from other sources methamphetamine can make one paranoid and delusional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine#History,_society,_and_culture

Not many people know this, but WWII represented the dawn of crystal meth.

It was discovered by German scientists and touted as a miracle drug that could give people unlimited energy. To this end, someone actually began to mass-produce it under the brand name "Pervitin". It was basically tablets, and came in a small container.

Pervitin was standard issue for German soldiers in WWII, and was frequently given to factory workers to help make them more productive. 

It wasn't until after the war that anyone actually sat down and realized what it was doing to people. 

Think about that a minute...