Arizona Election

[LDSGator]

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/15/pennsylvania-elections-republicans-postmortem-00077986?fbclid=IwAR2bx7MVDH9Zax89bGO-8LfW17hcnmvyRMXahqF0zgO7LN9nYfoYRhex7BM&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
 

It’ll be fascinating to see what happens here-and it’s interesting to see the contrast in how the GOP handles loss in each state. 

[JohnsonJones]

On 1/12/2023 at 9:09 AM, estradling75 said:

People are caught up in the idea that the Court couldn't prove intent.  But for me proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is a high bar to clear for very good reasons.

But people seem to be ignoring the fact that the Court found disenfranchisement of the vote.  If our vote is suppose to matter, if we are suppose to be able to "Trust" the results of an election this should be a huge red flag.  This should be triggering warning bells, this should have people of all political parties saying it does not matter if this was intentional, or incompetence, or some kind of system failure, it is simply unacceptable anywhere for any reason.

Now people might be inclined to think is is a little podunk place in Arizona that had no impact, on the end result.  Ok, but if we wait to fix it until it has an impact then it is to late. 

Bottom line if you like to dismiss cry's of vote fraud as the work of sore losers and wacky conspiracy theorist this courts findings should scare you spit less.  This court finding gives those claims and more importantly future clams legitimacy.  Unless steps are taken to secure the vote now the next election will have even more contested elections. And those that contest them will be seen as more and more reasonable.  This should be of great concern to everyone no matter their party, who expects votes to matter and to be honored.

 

 

 

The ONLY disfranchisement in Cochise county from not certifying it would have been done by Republicans to Republicans.  Republicans have almost 2X the number of voters there than Democrats.  There was no doubt who would get those votes. 

The Republicans controlled the voting, the polls, and the officials OVER it.  Those running the show there were Kari Lake loyalists.

This is why it makes it such a ridiculous case.  The ONLY ones who would be corrupt if there was corruption there would be Republicans and, on top of that, Kari Lake Loyalists on top of that!

It's like pointing to yourself and telling the court that you want to accuse yourself of a crime so that you will get a reward.

It's like going to a boxing match and then shooting yourself because you think it will help you be declared a winner.

The case makes absolutely NO sense at all. 

If anyone was disenfranchising someone it was Kari Lake and her supporters in that county.  The county that had some of her greatest supporters were the ones who were behind everything.  They even controlled the polling locations!  That county is one of her strongholds!

If there was voter fraud there, then it was actually DONE by her people!

By losing the votes there the Republicans could actually LOST a seat in congress.  It actively HURTS the Republican party if they had not certified the results.

So why do this?

They didn't DO this because it was actually voter fraud.  There IS a conspiracy there, but it's not so secret.  The idea is to take somewhere where they have enough control to pull off a stunt like this (so it wouldn't actually work in a place where there may actually be a question, or where Democrats may have won and a question could be raised if there was voter fraud on their part, it HAD to be done in a place where Republicans had enough control of the regulators and others in the process) and make it so that the election results in called into question.  If an election is called without tallying all the votes (for example, the votes in the county never get certified) then it legitimately could be said that there was voter disenfranchisement there. 

The plan then, is that this causes problems for the Democrats.  In fact, there WERE problems because of this.  IF the Democrats let Kari Lake get away with this it would actually BENEFIT them.  Some Democrats actually called to let her have her way.  It could cause the Republicans to have less power in Congress.  On the otherhand, it sets a dangerous precedence of voter disenfranchisement (the real danger) if they allowed it to happen that could set a pattern for the rest of the Nation to follow in deeply red counties of the United States.  Such a crisis could make it so that elections on a national scale could be called into question on their legitimacy if every state had counties that were allowed to simply not certify.  The best course of action then was to try to force an honest legal action rather than let it lie (ironically, for once). 

An election where Red counties controlled by Republicans refused to certify (ironically, these would be counties overwhelmingly Republican that were controlled by Republicans and almost no question of it going to Republican candidates) could ensure a reason that not all votes were counted.  In such a case it could force a National Election (for example, the next presidential election) to have a legitimate excuse by Congress to call into question it's actual legitimacy and have it go up for a vote in Congress rather than a vote by the people for who would be President.  The gamble is that if Republicans can control this, then they can force a de-legitimization of the public vote and make it a Congressional thing rather than a thing for the people and by the people. 

It is a way of taking the power of voting from the people and placing it and it's abilities into the hands of a few, particularly those who rule over us currently. 

THAT was the game Kari Lake is playing and played.  Yes, it IS a type of gadianton type thing (a type of secret combination, though not so secret if you really study it), and yes, I would expect that most of those who love freedom and democracy should be outraged at such a KINGMAN type action would be taken, and even more that we have people that support such Kingmen type activity and actions today.

[JohnsonJones]

On 1/15/2023 at 8:56 AM, LDSGator said:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/15/pennsylvania-elections-republicans-postmortem-00077986?fbclid=IwAR2bx7MVDH9Zax89bGO-8LfW17hcnmvyRMXahqF0zgO7LN9nYfoYRhex7BM&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
 

It’ll be fascinating to see what happens here-and it’s interesting to see the contrast in how the GOP handles loss in each state. 

I don't know what their results were, but I can speak for myself.

I say I am one of the resident liberals here many times.  That's actually only in relation to how other individuals are.

In truth, I actually lean quite conservative.  I AM an independent, but my views in general lean conservative in most political aspects.  I find myself voting more for democrats recently than I have ever done in my life in the past few years.  It is NOT because I necessarily agree with the Democrats.  In fact, in many cases I disagree with many of their stances.  It's because I Disagree with the Republican candidates even more strongly.  It's not over the traditional Republican values, but how extreme many of the Republican candidates have become.

Take Marjorie Taylor Greene.  I understand why she was elected overall (she comes from one of the areas of Georgia which still has a great deal of white supremacy in it's ranks for example).  Her personal actions and morality are not things I agree with nor support.  The things she goes to the extreme with politically are also not things I feel comfortable with.

I do not feel comfortable nor want to vote for those who seem to be going to the far extremes.  It seems that far more Republican candidates are extremists on the FAR right these days beyond anything I can support.  This was NOT always so, and in fact, a mere 8 years ago it WAS NOT this way.

The way they tear down people who are moral overall for those values instead of going after their political views are another.  Raphael Warnock is perhaps one of the more moral candidates in Georgia.  He has views I do not support, but he is a strong Christian who espouses many strong Christian views.  

When they went after him in regards to his morality or Christianity...it does not sit right with me.

An even bigger example that people could probably understand is with President Biden.  I actually like the President.  He is disliked by BOTH sides.  The reason is because he is actually a moderate.  He isn't far enough to the left so many of his own party despise him.  The Republicans on the otherhand seem to hate him simply because he is not a Republican.  They try to claim things about him that simply are not attributable to him and then say it's his fault.  It really appears it is simply because he is not on the extreme right of the political spectrum.

That said, if the Democrats put someone like Ilhan Omar (or some of the others who are far left politically) as their presidential candidate, I most likely would vote for a Republican UNLESS it was an extremists or someone on the extreme far right.  Unfortunately, these days, it seems that the Republican candidates are more often these extreme far right politicians rather than anything I would support.

They need to put more moderate candidates out there that people like me will actually vote for.  They need to actually APPEAL to voters like me (and for that matter, others as well.  This entire shenanigance of wanting to take away my Social Security and imposing things that feel like they are threatening my benefits does NOT make me love the Republicans more.  It also is probably not making friends with those of our more liberal sided youth either who want those social nets for the elderly). 

The problem is that while appealing to their base, they are getting candidates that are far too extreme to the right for the rest of the voting populace to support.  Their party members need to realize that they need someone more towards the middle rather than those that have gone so far off the deep end we can't even see them from the middle!

I think it's a bad situation for the Republicans when those who have typically voted Conservative are no longer a shoo-in vote.  They need to realize WHY they are losing the independents and aim more for winning an election rather than simply just winning their party.  As I think I said to the effect before the election, it's the independents who help decide the elections.  You need them to garner those wins. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by JohnsonJones

[Vort]

38 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

The ONLY ones who would be corrupt if there was corruption there would be Republicans and, on top of that, Kari Lake Loyalists on top of that!

This is simply not true. Kari Lake Loyalists were not counting the ballots. And if you think that corruption in counting ballots in a heavily Republican county could not affect the Democrat vote count, you are extraordinarily naive. On the contrary, it would be much easier to slip a few hundred (or thousand) extra Democrat votes into the vote count of a heavily Republican county than to falsify even more Republican votes.

I have no opinion on the matter in Arizona; I don't believe anything the media says, but I also don't see any reason to trust Kari Lake or her supporters. But the idea that "the ONLY ones who would be corrupt...would be Republicans" is so starkly false that I felt the need to point it out.

[JohnsonJones]

17 minutes ago, Vort said:

This is simply not true. Kari Lake Loyalists were not counting the ballots. And if you think that corruption in counting ballots in a heavily Republican county could not affect the Democrat vote count, you are extraordinarily naive. On the contrary, it would be much easier to slip a few hundred (or thousand) extra Democrat votes into the vote count of a heavily Republican county than to falsify even more Republican votes.

I have no opinion on the matter in Arizona; I don't believe anything the media says, but I also don't see any reason to trust Kari Lake or her supporters. But the idea that "the ONLY ones who would be corrupt...would be Republicans" is so starkly false that I felt the need to point it out.

In Cochise County?

There were Kari Lake loyalists that were in charge of the Ballots (though no one was TECHNICALLY COUNTING the Ballots one could say).  The hand recount was headed by the AUTHORIZED REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE Judy Smith representing the Chair (Tyndall).  The Democrats had their Chair (Montgomery) present along with 6 others from their party.  Lisa Marra (Republican) is the one who actually set up the formation and procedures for this election and claimed in 2020 that it was her proudest accomplishment.

The fight was actually between REPUBLICANS in the county (not between Democrats and Republicans) in regards to the validation of the votes.  If anything, it was two sides of the Republicans accusing each other of corruption, the Democrats didn't have anything to do with this secret society of gadiantons plotting against those of their own party and the nation. 

The voting, the hand counts, who was involved, is all on the public record.  I don't know WHY people are listening to Fox News or OAN instead of actually looking at the actual numbers, politcal correspondence and information themselves when it is out in the open on the internet. 

 

[LDSGator]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/16/business/media/fox-dominion-lawsuit.html
 

even conservative leaders are laughing at their own party. It’s cruel. 

[Guest Godless]

4 hours ago, LDSGator said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/16/business/media/fox-dominion-lawsuit.html
 

even conservative leaders are laughing at their own party. It’s cruel. 

From the Table of Contents *of an official court document*:

"This Dominion [crap] is going to give me a [frigging] aneurysm."

I browsed through the documents, it's absolutely chaotic. Fox was trying to avoid giving credibility to Trump's election claims while simultaneously trying not to alienate a large chunk of their viewers. I can't honestly say I was suprised by anything I read in there.

[LDSGator]

5 hours ago, Godless said:

can't honestly say I was suprised by anything I read in ther

 Same, though I think it’s incredibly depressing. It’s one thing to be arrogant, but there‘s something almost disturbing about mocking your supporters. It’s like when an artist shows up drunk and insults the fans who spent money to see them preform.