Question from a dream

[Ironhold]

Here goes. 

Last night, I had a dream in which I met someone and entered into a relationship. 

However, as the someone is from a non-member family, the family wasn't entirely on board. I was able to answer most of the challenges they put in front of me, but there's one that I'm drawing a bit of a blank on. It's an answer I likely know, but with everything going on IRL my mind is a bit fuzzy. 

The question was something or other to do with whether or not, in the time period of the New Testament, any groups of Christians were operating under any restrictions akin to the Word of Wisdom. 

I know that certain individuals and groups within Judaism were forbidden from even eating grapes, let alone drinking alcohol, but if it tells you anything I can't even remember the name of that group. 

Thanks. 

[Carborendum]

35 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Here goes. 

Last night, I had a dream in which I met someone and entered into a relationship. 

However, as the someone is from a non-member family, the family wasn't entirely on board. I was able to answer most of the challenges they put in front of me, but there's one that I'm drawing a bit of a blank on. It's an answer I likely know, but with everything going on IRL my mind is a bit fuzzy. 

The question was something or other to do with whether or not, in the time period of the New Testament, any groups of Christians were operating under any restrictions akin to the Word of Wisdom. 

I know that certain individuals and groups within Judaism were forbidden from even eating grapes, let alone drinking alcohol, but if it tells you anything I can't even remember the name of that group. 

Thanks. 

No, there wouldn't be anything like that because Section 89 specifically says:

Quote

In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

 -- D&C 89:4

It is specifically for this dispensation only.  And we have seen isolated incidents where this was important.  I believe that in the coming days, it will be pretty wide-spread.

Regarding the grapes and wine for Jews, that wasn't a direct prohibition.  It was complicated.

The prohibition was on any foods that had been used in pagan rituals and if it had bugs. Wine and fruits were often part of such rituals. So, only the fruits and juices (including wine) that had been handled, inspected, & processed by the covenant people would be acceptable for consumption.

I have not heard of any Jewish sects that require the prohibition of wine.  But "drunkenness" is generally looked upon unfavorably.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Carborendum

[Ironhold]

Thanks. 

[Guest Godless]

2 hours ago, Ironhold said:

Here goes. 

Last night, I had a dream in which I met someone and entered into a relationship. 

However, as the someone is from a non-member family, the family wasn't entirely on board. I was able to answer most of the challenges they put in front of me, but there's one that I'm drawing a bit of a blank on. It's an answer I likely know, but with everything going on IRL my mind is a bit fuzzy. 

The question was something or other to do with whether or not, in the time period of the New Testament, any groups of Christians were operating under any restrictions akin to the Word of Wisdom. 

I know that certain individuals and groups within Judaism were forbidden from even eating grapes, let alone drinking alcohol, but if it tells you anything I can't even remember the name of that group. 

Thanks. 

Water was often unsanitary in biblical times. Almost all liquid consumed in that time period was fermented. People back then knew that fermenting grape juice or barley mash made a safe water-based beverage, even if they didn't understand why it was safer than water. Even the slaves of Egypt were given beer* to keep them refreshed and hydrated. So I'd say it's extremely unlikely that any religious groups completely abstained from alcohol. Drunkenness and excess are denounced in the Bible, but alcohol in general is not. There was a general "please drink responsibly" attitude among the religious.

*It's worth noting that beer back then was usually significantly weaker than it is today. The same might be true about wine, but I don't know for sure. I know the Greeks and Romans watered down their wine to increase supply and decrease potency. I'm not sure if the Israelites and early Christians did so as well, though it's very likely that they did due to the heavy Roman influence of their society.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Godless

[Vort]

3 hours ago, Ironhold said:

The question was something or other to do with whether or not, in the time period of the New Testament, any groups of Christians were operating under any restrictions akin to the Word of Wisdom. 

I'm sure there were many families and groups of Christianized Jews who kept the laws of kosher (whatever they were called at the time). If you mean divinely appointed laws given to Christians similar to the Word of Wisdom, I am not aware of any such things beyond the general idea of avoiding blood and generally frowning on eating sacrifices.

[laronius]

"I had a dream"?

Sounds like someone is trying to co-op MLK day. 😄

[Carborendum]

21 hours ago, Godless said:

Water was often unsanitary in biblical times. Almost all liquid consumed in that time period was fermented. People back then knew that fermenting grape juice or barley mash made a safe water-based beverage, even if they didn't understand why it was safer than water. Even the slaves of Egypt were given beer* to keep them refreshed and hydrated. So I'd say it's extremely unlikely that any religious groups completely abstained from alcohol. Drunkenness and excess are denounced in the Bible, but alcohol in general is not. There was a general "please drink responsibly" attitude among the religious.

*It's worth noting that beer back then was usually significantly weaker than it is today. The same might be true about wine, but I don't know for sure. I know the Greeks and Romans watered down their wine to increase supply and decrease potency. I'm not sure if the Israelites and early Christians did so as well, though it's very likely that they did due to the heavy Roman influence of their society.

This is an excellent point as well.

I think it a sign of ignorance that so many Saints believe that Jesus didn't actually drink "wine"  but he drank grape juice.  While it is true that the ancients often didn't make much of a distinction, there was still a distinction.  And Jesus actually drank wine.  It was like calling any soda a "coke".  Did you really drink Coke? Or was it just another soft drink?

Unfortunately, many passages have some ambiguity.  However, the context in some cases (such as drinking at a wedding feast and the statement about the quality of the wine at the wedding at Cana) seems to lean towards it being alcoholic.  So, we're on pretty weak ground if we try to say that Jesus never drank alcohol.  One might as well say that Joseph Smith never drank alcohol.  Yet it was through him that Section 89 was delivered.

We need to remember that covenants are not just "good points of civil engagement" (such as the 10 commandments).  They are practices that set us apart from the world.  If the Lord only asked us to do that which would be considered "wise" by the wisdom of man, what's the big deal about covenants?  No, they're covenants because we're doing something "different" than the rest of the world that will bring us extra blessings beyond "health in the navel and marrow in the bones."  We receive treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures.  I take this to mean that we'll be more open to revelation.

The Law of Moses certainly had a lot of requirements that by man's understanding didn't really serve a practical purpose.  But it did set them apart from the rest of the world.  The Nazarite covenant also set people apart.  But not everyone was required to take on the Nazarite covenant.

[CrimsonKairos]

Numbers 6 explains the law for Nazarites (not Nazarenes) which forbade the drinking of wine, vinegar or even eating dried grapes, plus not cutting your hair.

Paul in the New Testament seems to have temporarily lived as a Nazarite (Acts 18:18).

This wouldn’t have been a church-wide mandatory “law” however.