Covid retrospective


NeuroTypical
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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Maybe it is because no one is counting them? 

No.
 

It’s because there is no evidence “early deaths” are increasing at all. Much less coming from vaccines.
 

But if anti vaxxers cared about evidence in the first place, they wouldn’t be anti vaxxers. So they’ll just make this up and believe it too. 

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4 hours ago, Ironhold said:

It's to the point now that whenever someone dies mysteriously or otherwise has a severe medical issue people are blaming the Covid vaccines

3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

With over 13 billion shots given to almost 70% of all the humans on earth, and no real noticeable jump in "mysterious deaths"

 

 

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I've read that 

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I keep hearing of

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

the theory has been floated

Anecdotes, rumors, theories, and vague passive voice opining do not make for a noticeable jump in mysterious deaths. 

 

I mean yes, we know quite a bit about excess deaths over and above what used to be a normal run-rate, starting in 2020.  The CDC even has stuff on their website about it.  A crapton of suicides, homicides, heart disease related things, fatal diseases, as well as domestic abuse and alcoholism and drug abuse, and depression and anxiety.   Seems likely a lot of that is due to lockdowns and quarantines, social isolation, and delays in medical care.  But hey, maybe vaccines make you drink and beat your wife more.  "The theory has been floated", but "it continues to be blown off as a conspiracy theory."  See how crazy that sounds?

The notion that fatal changes to our human condition are not being studied, is just plain old flateartherish nonsense.  People must spend energy to remain willfully blind, refusing to accept information, to keep an opinion like that.

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16 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Anecdotes, rumors, theories, and vague passive voice opining do not make for a noticeable jump in mysterious deaths. 

And what about the post-mortem reports from Germany that I posted?  Scientific facts.  Is the CDC even looking at that?

Remember that "anecdotes & rumors" aren't necessarily wrong.  They are only unconfirmed.  Not dependable until... they are backed up by facts.  Which they have been.  Still sound crazy when physical evidence is present that cannot be refuted?

Edited by Carborendum
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2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

And what about the post-mortem reports from Germany that I posted?  Scientific facts.  Is the CDC even looking at that?

When I was in my Moderna phase III trial program, I was required to submit every health thing that happened to me, to the study.  If I had died and they found what that youtube guy showed, Moderna would have the data.  Abso-friggin-lutely was everything being looked at.  It would be insane to not look, or ignore results they didn't like.  Can you guess why?

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1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

When I was in my Moderna phase III trial program, I was required to submit every health thing that happened to me, to the study.  If I had died and they found what that youtube guy showed, Moderna would have the data.  Abso-friggin-lutely was everything being looked at.  It would be insane to not look, or ignore results they didn't like.  Can you guess why?

Then explain why they are requiring people who have had the disease naturally to ALSO have a vaccine?  When in all of vaccine history has this EVER been the practice?

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On 1/25/2023 at 5:43 PM, LDSGator said:

No.
 

It’s because there is no evidence “early deaths” are increasing at all. Much less coming from vaccines.
 

But if anti vaxxers cared about evidence in the first place, they wouldn’t be anti vaxxers. So they’ll just make this up and believe it too. 

One of the problems is that proper terms are not being used.    Technically the COVID shot is not a vaccine but rather gene mRNA therapy.  The therapy is technically experimental.  In an emergency of a global pandemic – I believe the gene mRNA therapy is genius but let’s be clear it is NOT a COVID cure once a person has COVID.

Some people do not want to be experimented with (their body their choice – without affecting any other human body) and would rather wait for clinical trials to be completed and proven (including long term) – especially in light that the global pandemic seems to currently have diminishing effect.

Perhaps this thread should be linked to the “Requiring a COVID-19 Vaccine (shot/s)” thread in “Current Events”.

 

The Traveler

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9 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Some people do not want to be experimented with (their body their choic

That’s not issue with most pro vaccine people. You do you. Though yes, obviously I think people should be vaxxed. 
 

The issue is when they lie or spread false information about vaccines. That’s what bothers most vaccine supporters. 

Edited by LDSGator
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27 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

That’s not issue with most pro vaccine people. You do you. Though yes, obviously I think people should be vaxxed. 
 

The issue is when they lie or spread false information about vaccines. That’s what bothers most vaccine supporters. 

Thanks for your response.  I do not see or understand why someone that is not at risk should be vaxxed (especially forced to have experimental gene therapy by mandate).   I can understand why certain vaccines ought to be required because of society risk.  For example, the polio vaccine was required for children but not for adults because healthy adults were not at risk.  This vaccine requirement for children ended polio until illegal immigration of children has once again created risk of polio for children in the USA.

Like you I am somewhat concerned with the spread of misinformation (lies) – such as - that the gene therapy is a cure for COVID once someone is infected.  Or that T-cell immunity against COVID is not as good as the experminental gene therapy and that therefore experimental gene therapy must be required for everyone.

 

The Traveler

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31 minutes ago, Traveler said:

This vaccine requirement for children ended polio

Absolutely correct.

Ronald Reagan said those who advocate for abortion rights are those who have already been born. He was right. 

Hmm…I wonder why you don’t  hear anti vaxxers raging from iron lungs. Fascinating, but the anti vax crowd is incapable of understanding that.

Edited by LDSGator
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22 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Hmm…I wonder why you don’t  hear anti vaxxers raging from iron lungs. Fascinating, but the anti vax crowd is incapable of understanding that.

Your sweeping generalization are always amazing to me when it comes to "anti-vaxxers." The majority of anti-vaxxers I know use the iron lung as an example to not trust "scientists" and medical practitioners who say they have a cure.

In that light, your general sweep of the anti-vax crowd is incapable of understanding that seems to be a lie, which bring irony seeing that you call out "lies", or something a person will "make up" to continue in their erroneous belief. Something you seem to be doing here, making something up.
 

Edited by Anddenex
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2 hours ago, Anddenex said:

Your sweeping generalization are always amazing to me when it comes to "anti-vaxxers." The majority of anti-vaxxers I know use the iron lung as an example to not trust "scientists" and medical practitioners who say they have a cure.

In that light, your general sweep of the anti-vax crowd is incapable of understanding that seems to be a lie, which bring irony seeing that you call out "lies", or something a person will "make up" to continue in their erroneous belief. Something you seem to be doing here, making something up.
 

Oh, no worries. Anti vaxxers amaze me with their ignorance and inability to understand basic science, so we can both walk away amazed at one another.

But yup, you got me. I have zero respect for their beliefs. I try to make it obvious so I’m glad you noticed. I do make sweeping generalizations about “them” because, once again, I don’t have great respect for them. I feel so strongly about it that if I could make the world listen to one Ted Talk, it would be how about much vaccines save lives. 

I also save some great memes and jokes about them too.  “They” don’t respect my views either, so I feel no obligation in respecting theirs. Nor am I going to “lie” and tell you “I respect the people who have them.” Not really. I’m sure there are people you don’t respect either.  
 

Guilty as charged.  Frankly I view it as a badge of honor and not an insult in the least to he viewed as “anti anti vax.” So thank you, and I mean that in all seriousness. 

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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Oh, no worries. Anti vaxxers amaze me with their ignorance and inability to understand basic science, so we can both walk away amazed at one another.

But yup, you got me. I have zero respect for their beliefs. I try to make it obvious so I’m glad you noticed. I do make sweeping generalizations about “them” because, once again, I don’t have great respect for them. I feel so strongly about it that if I could make the world listen to one Ted Talk, it would be how about much vaccines save lives. 

I also save some great memes and jokes about them too.  “They” don’t respect my views either, so I feel no obligation in respecting theirs. Nor am I going to “lie” and tell you “I respect the people who have them.” Not really. I’m sure there are people you don’t respect either.  
 

Guilty as charged.  Frankly I view it as a badge of honor and not an insult in the least to he viewed as “anti anti vax.” So thank you, and I mean that in all seriousness. 

Having zero respect for someone's beliefs isn't the issue here. The issue is the logical fallacy of a sweeping generalization. If your good with "making things up" in order to bolster your viewpoint about anti-vaxxers that is your prerogative.

People can disrespect other points of view without making up things to bolster their viewpoint. You don't like "anti-vaxxers" that's fine, no skin off anyone's back. When you knowingly iterate untruths with a sweeping generalizations that isn't on the anti-vaxxer -- that is on you.

Vaccines do save lives, they also take lives. If we want to be good with sweeping generalizations, I could easily say all promoters of vaccines are murderers as they don't care about the "few" that do have bad reactions to vaccines that can kill them if not treated.

Your attitude and sweeping generalization is why my niece almost died from the vaccine. After the vaccine she was majorly sick. She went to see her doctors who blew her off because it COULDN'T BE the vaccine. She was becoming sick enough my brother flew her home, and got her checked right away. The doctors there, who actually didn't fall under these sweeping generalization of "vaccines NEVER cause harm" immediately took her in, knew she had a bad reaction from the vaccine, and gave her the medicine necessary to help her. If she stayed here, with the ignorant moronic doctors, she may have died or had severe after affects until the ignorant moronic doctors finally said something isn't right with the vaccine!

So, I'm good with anybody not respecting views. All good there. Making up things to bolster our viewpoints and to brag about it just seems a little off -- especially coming from someone who constantly says don't judge, be loving, and is always seeking to show compassion -- unless your an anti-vaxxer -- then all gloves are off and we can make up whatever we want to feel better about our position.

Edited by Anddenex
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1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

especially coming from someone who constantly says don't judge, be loving, and is always seeking to show compassion -- unless your an anti-vaxxer -- then all gloves are off and we can make up whatever we want to feel better about our position.

First off, you are more right than wrong. I’m not going to pretend to be sympathetic to anti vaxxers. Correct.  
 

I don’t recall telling anyone to show compassion or don’t judge. If I did say that, fine. I don’t say it constantly though. I wish I did say it more. It’s fairly obvious that you think I’m saying that far more often because you have a preconceived notion that’s how I think, not how I actually think.
 

Because anti vaxxers are so destructive with their views, you are right again. Same with pyramid schemes and mlm scams. All true. 
 

My gloves are absolutely off when I encounter them. Yup. Again, no argument here. Yes. Judge them harshly, show them as much compassion as they show to strangers who have immune disorders or are elderly. 
 

You are tying to accuse me of things that I’ll not only admit, but am very proud of. So far I agree with most of what you are saying. I’ll admit it to anyone. 

Edited by LDSGator
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42 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Having zero respect for someone's beliefs isn't the issue here. The issue is the logical fallacy of a sweeping generalization. If your good with "making things up" in order to bolster your viewpoint about anti-vaxxers that is your prerogative.

People can disrespect other points of view without making up things to bolster their viewpoint. You don't like "anti-vaxxers" that's fine, no skin off anyone's back. When you knowingly iterate untruths with a sweeping generalizations that isn't on the anti-vaxxer -- that is on you.

Vaccines do save lives, they also take lives. If we want to be good with sweeping generalizations, I could easily say all promoters of vaccines are murderers as they don't care about the "few" that do have bad reactions to vaccines that can kill them if not treated.

Your attitude and sweeping generalization is why my niece almost died from the vaccine. After the vaccine she was majorly sick. She went to see her doctors who blew her off because it COULDN'T BE the vaccine. She was becoming sick enough my brother flew her home, and got her checked right away. The doctors there, who actually didn't fall under these sweeping generalization of "vaccines NEVER cause harm" immediately took her in, knew she had a bad reaction from the vaccine, and gave her the medicine necessary to help her. If she stayed here, with the ignorant moronic doctors, she may have died or had severe after affects until the ignorant moronic doctors finally said something isn't right with the vaccine!

So, I'm good with anybody not respecting views. All good there. Making up things to bolster our viewpoints and to brag about it just seems a little off -- especially coming from someone who constantly says don't judge, be loving, and is always seeking to show compassion -- unless your an anti-vaxxer -- then all gloves are off and we can make up whatever we want to feel better about our position.

Sorry to hear about your niece.

I often get pigeon-holed simply because I'm "skeptical" of some vaccines.  I voice such an opinion and I'm automatically "Anti-Vax."  Actually, I do believe vaccines save lives.  And I also believe they can be very dangerous.  So, which am I?  Pro-vaccine or anti-vaccine?

I happen to ask questions that really should be asked, but I haven't heard any answers.  But just because I ask questions, I'm automatically <fill in the blank>.  I often sit there wondering why people get so upset at asking questions that need to be asked. I do NOT just assume something is bad and expect someone to prove it is good.  I just exercise curiosity.  But when people are reticent to provide answers, or throw epithets at me and make accusations for simply asking the questions, that is where I begin to become suspicious.  I've never heard any real answers to the questions I've posed.  The only answers are basically some variant of "trust the experts."

Why am I expected to just "trust the experts" just because I'm not an expert?  Do we trust "Philosophers of Biology" to judge why a pre-pubescent girl should get a hysterectomy and a double mastectomy when she shows signs she likes playing with trucks more than dolls?

I say this with a lot of consideration.  I'm actually considered a pretty good engineer.  But there are so many I've come across in my profession that makes me wonder how they got their degree, much less their license.  They somehow passed the tests.  But in practical application, they're missing a LOT of fundamentals.  If that happens in my profession, I'd imagine that happens a lot in other professions as well.

Why is it so wrong to ask questions?

Edited by Carborendum
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12 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Sorry to hear about your niece.

Why is it so wrong to ask questions?

Thank you.

And that is my belief also. What is wrong with questions? Really nothing is wrong with questions, except since 2020 asking questions was a bad thing! If you asked correct and important questions, showing other sources of remedy -- silenced.

But that is why we are where we are today and this question even surfaces -- "Do we trust "Philosophers of Biology" to judge why a pre-pubescent girl should get a hysterectomy and a double mastectomy when she shows signs she likes playing with trucks more than dolls? "

One thing for sure that I'm seeing is the fulfillment of prophecy regarding the nature of humankind before the second coming. I used to wonder Carborendum, how a civilization could become like Sodom and Gomorrah? I don't ask this question anymore, I now know the answer.

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2 hours ago, Anddenex said:

...What is wrong with questions? Really nothing is wrong with questions, except since 2020 asking questions was a bad thing! If you asked correct and important questions, showing other sources of remedy -- silenced.

It is sad to see so many people say that the church has problems with their members who ask questions, and you aren't allowed to ask them...and yet every question is answered by the church. I see no organization as open about their history and addressing the hard topics as our church does. Then, when they don't like the answer given, they say that it isn't true, that things are still being hidden, and they keep asking the same question over and over.

Then, those same people have the gall to rake anyone over the coals that dares question the only tried and true covid treatment...the "vaccine". "It is the brazen serpent on a pole, and members are showing their lack of faith by not taking it!" Remember Ivermectin? It was ridiculous that it was roundly and soundly defeated as a therapy BEFORE anyone did any studies on it. What was more bizarre is that so many with the ability and resources to test it refused to do so for months and months..."just take the vaccine" they said. "Do what we say...because we say it". "If you don't take this shot that we say is best then you hate your fellow men". Maybe Ivermectin had a secondary effect that damaged or slowed the virus...or, maybe it wasn't effective in the slightest. But we don't know if we aren't allowed to ask the question.

It all comes down to what question you're asking, and since the majority of celebrities and mass media lean left, your questions better forward their platform, or be considered unacceptable.

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On 1/28/2023 at 11:21 AM, LDSGator said:

Absolutely correct.

Ronald Reagan said those who advocate for abortion rights are those who have already been born. He was right. 

Hmm…I wonder why you don’t  hear anti vaxxers raging from iron lungs. Fascinating, but the anti vax crowd is incapable of understanding that.

For one thing the polio vaccine was never made political, there was no evidence that it was man made, was fully transparent to criticism, completed all the trials before being open to the public, was never released to the public as an experiment, there was no known reliable cure and despite all the danger of polio it was never mandated.

To my knowledge – no one who had contracted polio and recovered was called a murder if they refused the vaccine.  And lastly the eventer was not made a billionaire for his efforts.  

 

The Traveler

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3 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

So now conservatives have a problem with people making a profit? All this time I thought the right was the party of free enterprise?

No. No one has a problem with profit-making. People have a problem with conflict of interest, with those who make money from a project also being the decision-makers for what is supposedly the public's best interest.

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20 minutes ago, Vort said:

No. No one has a problem with profit-making. People have a problem with conflict of interest, with those who make money from a project also being the decision-makers for what is supposedly the public's best interest.

Oh, okay. Now I get it. You are mistaken, because the right has developed a strong populist/anti elite stance.  But I understand the reasoning now. Pfizer is making money, I don’t like why, so I’ll create this reason so I can dislike them and still be in favor of free enterprise. 
 

I do love watching the left embrace “big pharma” while suddenly the right gets very nervous with “woke” complies making money. The pendulum has swung, that’s for sure. 

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10 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Oh, okay. Now I get it. 
 

I do love watching the left embrace “big pharma” while suddenly the right gets very nervous with “woke” complies making money. The pendulum has swung, that’s for sure. 

When there is a direct connection between those mandating the experimental gene therapy and those making money producing the experiment - that is not capitalism - it is cronyism at a foundation of a corrupt government.  It is akin (the same kind of thing) to government mandated religion.

For a better explanation I recommend the book “Capitalism and Freedom” by the world acclaimed and Nobel prize winning economist, Milton Friedman.

 

The Traveler

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