Victories - Are Things Turning Around?


Carborendum
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11 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

That's good to hear.  ADF seem to be good people.

I'm still glad BYU (or the church in general) doesn't accept any government money or aid.

That's not entirely true.  At least, it wasn't when I worked there.  It is mostly true.  But...

As a student, I worked in the budget office.  I was a "tagger".  I tagged equipment with the "Property of BYU" stickers with inventory numbers on them.

We had three colors of stickers. 

  • Blue meant that it was BYU property, paid for by "normal" BYU funds. 
  • Some shade of red or orange or something... meant that it was a special project from outside BYU that had hired BYU to do something.
  • Green meant that it was paid for by the government.

The VAST majority of tags were blue.  I never got to tag anything with a red sticker (which is why I'm uncertain as to the color).  But I did tag two things with a green sticker.  They were HUGE machines of some sort in the technology building at the CET (College of Engineering & Technology). 

Funny Story:  The budget office liked to hire engineering students because we tended to understand a lot of what we were tagging.  Arts and humanities students hardly knew the difference between hardware and software.  They could have sent the mechanical engineering or the electrical engineering students they hired.  But no.  They sent me.  The one guy who had no idea what the heck these things (the giant pieces of equipment) were.

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21 minutes ago, Vort said:

Last I heard, BYU students still received Pell grants.

Yep, and subsidized student loans.  That’s enough to subject a university to Title IX.  BYU-Provo and BYU-Idaho were both represented among the alma maters of the LGBTQ plaintiffs.  

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11 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Whelp, I stand corrected.

Yes and no.  The Church subsidizes BYU so heavily anyways, that the cost of just waiving the tuition they do collect (instead of having students get federal loans) would probably be something under $380 million per year; whereas the average interest on the Church’s rainy day fund (assuming an average 5% annual yield over time) would be over ten times that amount. 

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On 1/20/2023 at 8:45 AM, Just_A_Guy said:

Yes and no.  The Church subsidizes BYU so heavily anyways, that the cost of just waiving the tuition they do collect (instead of having students get federal loans) would probably be something under $380 million per year; whereas the average interest on the Church’s rainy day fund (assuming an average 5% annual yield over time) would be over ten times that amount. 

That's a good thing to keep in mind.  While we may be open to accepting federal funds, we are not dependent on them.  And it seems that this setup means that the only reason BYU even bothers accepting them is that the students often need them and apply for them, not the Church.

Edited by Carborendum
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Man acquitted of FBI charges for standing outside of Planned Parenthood.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edpa/pr/bucks-county-man-indicted-federal-charges-assaulting-reproductive-healthcare-clinic

This was the guy who pushed a pro-abortionist for violent antics and threatening the defendant's child.

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3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Man acquitted of FBI charges for standing outside of Planned Parenthood.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edpa/pr/bucks-county-man-indicted-federal-charges-assaulting-reproductive-healthcare-clinic

This was the guy who pushed a pro-abortionist for violent antics and threatening the defendant's child.

I'm sure the press will report extensively on that.

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Gordan B. Hinckley and Boyd K. Packer were right: 

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-“The traditional family is under heavy attack. I do not know that things were worse in the times of Sodom and Gomorrah. … We see similar conditions today. They prevail all across the world. I think our Father must weep as He looks down upon His wayward sons and daughters. (President Gordon B. Hinckley, Worldwide Leadership Training Meeting, 10 Jan. 2004, 20)

-“We live in a season when fierce men do terrible and despicable things. We live in a season of war. We live in a season of arrogance. We live in a season of wickedness, pornography, immorality. All of the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah haunt our society. Our young people have never faced a greater challenge. We have never seen more clearly the lecherous face of evil.” (President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, Nov 2001, 4)

-“Nothing happened in Sodom and Gomorrah which exceeds in wickedness and depravity that which surrounds us now. Words of profanity, vulgarity, and blasphemy are heard everywhere. Unspeakable wickedness and perversion were once hidden in dark places; now they are in the open, even accorded legal protection. At Sodom and Gomorrah these things were localized. Now they are spread across the world, and they are among us.” (Elder Boyd K. Packer, Address to CES religious educators, Feb. 6, 2004, 4)

 

-http://richardsonstudies.com/2019/12/01/we-are-wicked-as-sodom-prophet-quotes/

 

 

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I do not know that things were worse in the times of Sodom and Gomorrah."

“Nothing happened in Sodom and Gomorrah which exceeds in wickedness and depravity that which surrounds us now."

 

Personally, I think there are some things that our world is doing today that those people would have found abhorrent. It is remarkable how quickly and how far man can fall.

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1 hour ago, scottyg said:

I do not know that things were worse in the times of Sodom and Gomorrah."

“Nothing happened in Sodom and Gomorrah which exceeds in wickedness and depravity that which surrounds us now."

 

Personally, I think there are some things that our world is doing today that those people would have found abhorrent. It is remarkable how quickly and how far man can fall.

At the core of each of us, we are basically animals who want to survive. The loss of a moral code in our hearts will turn us into monsters that are barely human. 

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3 hours ago, scottyg said:

I do not know that things were worse in the times of Sodom and Gomorrah."

“Nothing happened in Sodom and Gomorrah which exceeds in wickedness and depravity that which surrounds us now."

Personally, I think there are some things that our world is doing today that those people would have found abhorrent. It is remarkable how quickly and how far man can fall.

No, S&G did all the same things we see in the world today.  And they reveled in it.  Today they're simply committing the oldest sins in the newest ways.

This is why I'm having difficulty figuring out exactly what Elder Packer was talking about.  The sin and depravity we see today was still not really accepted in 2004.  Obama actually spoke against transgender use of bathrooms, for instance.  I believe he even said that he would not support transgender sports accommodations.

Packer spoke of vulgarity and profanity. Perversions. kept in dark places, but now open and afforded legal protections.  He undoubtedly spoke of homosexual sins.  But transgender issues were not as they are today (the past few years).  He never got to hear a Presidential candidate support the transgender use of bathrooms, for instance.  And guess, what folks!  It was the Republican President that said that out loud first.

And now, they are not only afforded legal protection, they are given preferential treatment under the law.

I simply don't believe that such evils were not had in abundance in S&G.  The only difference is technology (surgeries, hormone treatments, etc.).  But it is not the tool that matters.  It is the use of available tools. No, I did not intend any hidden meanings.

So, I can only guess that Elder Packer was using mild hyperbole.

Edited by Carborendum
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3 hours ago, scottyg said:

I do not know that things were worse in the times of Sodom and Gomorrah."

“Nothing happened in Sodom and Gomorrah which exceeds in wickedness and depravity that which surrounds us now."

I'm interested in why behaviour that resulted in the destruction of two cities does not result in the destruction of cities when the same behaviour or worse occurs at a different time and place. Its probable there are many possible explanations but it would be nice to know which of the many possible explanations are more likely and which ones are less likely. 

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47 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

I'm interested in why behaviour that resulted in the destruction of two cities does not result in the destruction of cities when the same behaviour or worse occurs at a different time and place. Its probable there are many possible explanations but it would be nice to know which of the many possible explanations are more likely and which ones are less likely. 

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Genesis 18:32

And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake.

Are there 10 righteous people in, say, San Francisco?  New York City?  Los Angeles, Washington DC?  Your town? :D 

Seems like the presence of righteous people delays destruction of the wicked.

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1 hour ago, zil2 said:

Are there 10 righteous people in, say, San Francisco?  New York City?  Los Angeles, Washington DC?  Your town? :D 

Los Angeles, yes. New York City, yes. San Francisco. maybe. Washington DC - let me get back to you on that one. My town? At least one. :)

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9 hours ago, scottyg said:

I do not know that things were worse in the times of Sodom and Gomorrah."

“Nothing happened in Sodom and Gomorrah which exceeds in wickedness and depravity that which surrounds us now."

 

Personally, I think there are some things that our world is doing today that those people would have found abhorrent. It is remarkable how quickly and how far man can fall.

Most people have an idea what was going on in Sodom – just by its name but according to Hugh Nibley Gomorrah was up to something quite different.  They wanted to tax and charge all people in their city for using things that G-d provided – like rain, sunshine and stuff that grew wild or came from the wilderness. 

A number of years ago Utah had a surplus of monies and sought suggestions.  I wrote my suggestion that perhaps the state should repeal either the flood or drought tax.

 

The Traveler

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5 hours ago, zil2 said:

Are there 10 righteous people in, say, San Francisco?  New York City?  Los Angeles, Washington DC?  Your town? :D 

Seems like the presence of righteous people delays destruction of the wicked.

It is my opinion that the primary reason G-d will step in and stop evil is to preserve innocent children from suffering abuse from adults.   The Book of Enoch said that the reason for the flood was for two reasons.  First - that children were conceived for corrupt purposes and second that the order of marriage was changed.

If we apply this to a specific city – I guess we could ask if there were at least 10 people that would not abuse children for their own desire and pleasure and allow (respect) marriage according to G-d’s law (between a man and a woman).

 

The Traveler

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On 1/31/2023 at 2:33 PM, Carborendum said:

No, S&G did all the same things we see in the world today.  And they reveled in it.  Today they're simply committing the oldest sins in the newest ways.

This is why I'm having difficulty figuring out exactly what Elder Packer was talking about.  The sin and depravity we see today was still not really accepted in 2004.  Obama actually spoke against transgender use of bathrooms, for instance.  I believe he even said that he would not support transgender sports accommodations.

Packer spoke of vulgarity and profanity. Perversions. kept in dark places, but now open and afforded legal protections.  He undoubtedly spoke of homosexual sins.  But transgender issues were not as they are today (the past few years).  He never got to hear a Presidential candidate support the transgender use of bathrooms, for instance.  And guess, what folks!  It was the Republican President that said that out loud first.

And now, they are not only afforded legal protection, they are given preferential treatment under the law.

I simply don't believe that such evils were not had in abundance in S&G.  The only difference is technology (surgeries, hormone treatments, etc.).  But it is not the tool that matters.  It is the use of available tools. No, I did not intend any hidden meanings.

So, I can only guess that Elder Packer was using mild hyperbole.

I think we get just a taste of the actual evil being commited when we realize what Epstein was doing, for the elites; and when we see that there are tens of thousands of missing adults and children that go missing every year and are never found. It does not take a genious to realize what happens to these people. 😔

I think it is best summarized by this, and remember this was in 1839. How far have we tumbled in the last 184 years?

Quote

 

D&C 123

7 It is an imperative duty that we owe to God, to angels, with whom we shall be brought to stand, and also to ourselves, to our wives and children, who have been made to bow down with grief, sorrow, and care, under the most damning hand of murder, tyranny, and oppression, supported and urged on and upheld by the influence of that spirit which hath so strongly riveted the creeds of the fathers, who have inherited lies, upon the hearts of the children, and filled the world with confusion, and has been growing stronger and stronger, and is now the very mainspring of all corruption, and the whole earth groans under the weight of its iniquity.

8 It is an iron yoke, it is a strong band; they are the very handcuffs, and chains, and shackles, and fetters of hell.

9 Therefore it is an imperative duty that we owe, not only to our own wives and children, but to the widows and fatherless, whose husbands and fathers have been murdered under its iron hand;

10 Which dark and blackening deeds are enough to make hell itself shudder, and to stand aghast and pale, and the hands of the very devil to tremble and palsy.

11 And also it is an imperative duty that we owe to all the rising generation, and to all the pure in heart—

12 For there are many yet on the earth among all sects, parties, and denominations, who are blinded by the subtle craftiness of men, whereby they lie in wait to deceive, and who are only kept from the truth because they know not where to find it—

13 Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven—

14 These should then be attended to with great earnestness.

15 Let no man count them as small things; for there is much which lieth in futurity, pertaining to the saints, which depends upon these things.

16 You know, brethren, that a very large ship is benefited very much by a very small helm in the time of a storm, by being kept workways with the wind and the waves.

17 Therefore, dearly beloved brethren, let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power; and then may we stand still, with the utmost assurance, to see the salvation of God, and for his arm to be revealed.

 

It is so easy for evil people to snatch away a person, never to be seen again. Good people need to be aware and stand for good. Like Operation Underground Railroad, remain vigilant, listen to the spirit and act when you see something wrong. Notice that everyone of these stories "had a feeling."

 

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