The Folk Prophet Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 (edited) 2 hours ago, Carborendum said: Understood. I have been without internet for the past two days. There was some major outage in the area. Fixed now. It appeared to have happened just as I read this post of yours. I wrote an entire response that was about as long as your post. Then I couldn't post it. Now it's all gone. I spent a lot of time on it to get just the right wording. What a waste. So, I spent some time pondering what would be some bullet points I could distill out of what I said. The ancient "sense" of reward is a bit different than how we see it today. While I think that reward is probably a correct translation, it loses some connotation. It always included an idea of cause and effect. Wages for a days work was not simply a contract between parties (although, it was, indeed practiced that way). It was understood that wages were the natural result of a days work. If we can make a distinction between "reward" and "result" we begin to understand what the ancient meaning was. I think it would be incorrect to see it simply as "result" just as much as I think it is incorrect to see it as "reward". It seems to be something in between. It is an old notion that we "earn" our eternal "reward". And in a sense I don't disagree. But in another sense, I think it to be incomplete. Brad Wilcox phrased it as "No, we are not earning heaven. We are learning heaven." We prepare for it as if we are preparing for a wedding (feast). But we never "earn the right" to go there. Any more than we "earn" the right to go to a wedding feast. We are invited. Romans 4:4 To "earn a reward" is great imagery which is often used in scriptures and has been taught throughout history. And it works with the mentality that we mortals are used to understanding. But when we understand that the economy of God works differently than that of man, we have to accept certain truths while still working with that imagery. AoF 2-4: We dig ourselves into a pit through sin. And there is no way for us to get out by ourselves. Through the Atonement, the Savior sends down a ladder (of principles & ordinances) and tells us to climb up. We're still required to do the minimal work of climbing the ladder. Never in such a circumstance would we say that we "earned" our way out of the pit. We'd completely give credit to the one who provided the ladder to us. Perhaps it is just perspective and attitude. But beyond principles, ordinances, and obedience, our "eternal reward" does require attitude and perspective. That tells us that the changes are not just outward, but that the Lord has effected a miraculous change of heart. Do we have the perspective to recognize that NOTHING would be possible without the Atonement? Do we have the attitude of believing we only made it by relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save? I hate it when that happens. But, man alive, the forum's been dead for the last 2 days. Maybe others had the same outage. I don't believe I used the word "earn". So I'm not sure where you're reading that into what I said. Whether we "earn" it or not isn't relevant to my point. But...the point I'd like you to answer and discuss is the one I made about being eternally "telestial" and that just being revealed vs. choosing whether we are tel/terr/celestial. Are we just fish? Or do we choose to be fish? Edited March 9 by The Folk Prophet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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