Spiritual impressions


scottyg
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As I was reading D&C 3 this week (specifically verse 2) I was reminded of a past experience. About 7 years ago, my wife and I had our 3rd child. After the child was born, I received a strong spiritual impression that my family was complete - that 3 children were what was being sent to me by the Lord, and that our family as presently constituted would be my family for my duration on the earth. The impression was very specific, comforting, and clear - it was not my own thoughts. I was a bit taken aback by this as my wife and I hadn't ruled out having more children. We took each potential pregnancy one at a time, and had talked about possibly having up to 5 kids. Later, after talking with her about this she also said she felt like we were done having children, and that our family was complete. We were both happy with the impression and life was great.

Fast forward 5 years, and we ended up having a 4th child. We never felt like we needed another one, and we weren't trying to have one, but we also weren't preventing it per se. Now, I love my youngest, and we're very happy to now have 4 kids, but I have always pondered that impression I received. Does anyone have any thoughts as to why the Lord would send me a clear spiritual impression about my long-term family if He knew that our situation would be changing in a few years? Why not just let us continue our lives, and give us the impression to have another kid when the time was right if our family needed one? Neither of us were against having another child, and if that impression came, we would have done it wholeheartedly.

Yes, God's ways are not our ways, but He also doesn't say one thing and then do another. I have thought about if for a couple of years now and it still befuddles me; God is omniscient, so why would I receive an impression from Him that was contradictory to, or inconsistent with what would ultimately happen?

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13 minutes ago, scottyg said:

...why would I receive an impression from Him that was contradictory to, or inconsistent with what would ultimately happen?

Possibilities:

  • It was what you needed to hear at the time to allow for a bit of a gap between your 3rd and 4th because of other plans that the Lord had. 
    • (Morpheus: You need to know the difference between knowing the path, and walking it). 
    • "Impressions" are often not very specific instructions.  But they lead you in a direction.  You went that direction.  And the Lord blessed you with another child, a little later in your life.  So, good on you.  OR
  • It was a "commandment" rather than a prophecy.  And you failed because you didn't "prevent it per se." OR
  • It was not a message from the Lord.  It was all between you and your wife. And a beautiful life happened.

Apart from physical/health limitations I cannot fathom why the Lord would tell anyone to not have any more children in a loving, faithful household.  Have as many as you & your wife want, and what you think you can handle.

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An unorthodox idea straight out of left field:

Maybe your premortal family was reflected in your three-child family. It was complete. Maybe you added to that family with another child.

Not suggesting this is the case. Just a thought that came to me reading your post. Take it for what it's worth to you, or leave it altogether, as you see fit.

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

Maybe your premortal family was reflected in your three-child family.

I've never heard the concept of a premortal family other all of us being God's children. Is that something you picked up from somewhere or is it just the unorthodox thing? 

edit: I mean I guess Saturday's Warrior alluded to something akin...but.......??

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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2 hours ago, scottyg said:

Yes, God's ways are not our ways, but He also doesn't say one thing and then do another.

Who says you interpreted what He said correctly?

Maybe what He said was, "You're done, for now" and in your mortal weakness you just didn't understand the "for now" part.

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27 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I've never heard the concept of a premortal family other all of us being God's children. Is that something you picked up from somewhere or is it just the unorthodox thing? 

edit: I mean I guess Saturday's Warrior alluded to something akin...but.......??

The unorthodox thing. Though, who knows, maybe Saturday's Warrior influenced me. I don't think so. It just seems a perfectly reasonable conjecture that, seeing as how families are absolutely central to the entire plan of salvation, we may well have lived as families in our premortal existence, however many "phases" that may have consisted of.

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In D&C 19:6-7, the takeaway almost seems to be that the Lord will (if not lie to us) tell us things He knows we will construe in a particular (inaccurate) way if it leads us to actually doing what He wants done in a particular moment.

I don’t know how that squares with Enos’s description of God as being a god who cannot lie; but it’s food for thought.

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If I might offer my own thought.

Maybe the Lord was telling you and your wife that was all he 'required' of you.  That is easy enough to take as 'being done.'

But doing more then just what is 'required' is usually a good thing.

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1 hour ago, mikbone said:

My family felt complete @ 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 

Really complete @ 9

# 10 & 11 have been a blast.

Can’t imagine life without the caboose.

I must have been reading Palms 127:5

How do you do family travel / vacations? Do you have a 15 passenger van, or drive 2 separate vehicles?

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9 minutes ago, scottyg said:

How do you do family travel / vacations? Do you have a 15 passenger van, or drive 2 separate vehicles?

Nissan NV was very cozy.

5 are out of the house now.  So we have a Ford supercab truck and a Kia Telluride.

We can get everyone into the Truck but its only comfortable for the driver.  😀

We usually take 2 cars.  Once you get a driving child and are finished with diapers its gets lots easier.

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3 hours ago, Vort said:

The unorthodox thing. Though, who knows, maybe Saturday's Warrior influenced me. I don't think so. It just seems a perfectly reasonable conjecture that, seeing as how families are absolutely central to the entire plan of salvation, we may well have lived as families in our premortal existence, however many "phases" that may have consisted of.

Strikes me as highly unlikely. But who knows.

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When receiving inspiration it's so easy to attach our own conclusions to what God says that it can be difficult to distinguish between where the inspiration stops and where our own thinking starts. And if our conclusions (even the incorrect ones) don't interfere with "the plan" then there really isn't a need to correct us.

Not saying that's the case in this instance but I'm sure I've experienced this before.

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11 hours ago, scottyg said:

As I was reading D&C 3 this week (specifically verse 2) I was reminded of a past experience. About 7 years ago, my wife and I had our 3rd child. After the child was born, I received a strong spiritual impression that my family was complete - that 3 children were what was being sent to me by the Lord, and that our family as presently constituted would be my family for my duration on the earth. The impression was very specific, comforting, and clear - it was not my own thoughts. I was a bit taken aback by this as my wife and I hadn't ruled out having more children. We took each potential pregnancy one at a time, and had talked about possibly having up to 5 kids. Later, after talking with her about this she also said she felt like we were done having children, and that our family was complete. We were both happy with the impression and life was great.

Fast forward 5 years, and we ended up having a 4th child. We never felt like we needed another one, and we weren't trying to have one, but we also weren't preventing it per se. Now, I love my youngest, and we're very happy to now have 4 kids, but I have always pondered that impression I received. Does anyone have any thoughts as to why the Lord would send me a clear spiritual impression about my long-term family if He knew that our situation would be changing in a few years? Why not just let us continue our lives, and give us the impression to have another kid when the time was right if our family needed one? Neither of us were against having another child, and if that impression came, we would have done it wholeheartedly.

Yes, God's ways are not our ways, but He also doesn't say one thing and then do another. I have thought about if for a couple of years now and it still befuddles me; God is omniscient, so why would I receive an impression from Him that was contradictory to, or inconsistent with what would ultimately happen?

Perhaps the sperm that beat out the competition was left in the dark about the revelation?  And remember, as tiny as that little rascal was he was still an intelligence capable of independent action (see Doctrine and Covenants 88). Never lose sight of the fact that he was just trying to fulfill the measure of creation. You could learn much from his valiant, heroic example.

Edited by Jersey Boy
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23 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

In D&C 19:6-7, the takeaway almost seems to be that the Lord will (if not lie to us) tell us things He knows we will construe in a particular (inaccurate) way if it leads us to actually doing what He wants done in a particular moment.

I don’t know how that squares with Enos’s description of God as being a god who cannot lie; but it’s food for thought.

My own current opinion is that we don't understand anything of Godliness, so God speaks to us in a way that we comprehend the fundamental truths most clearly. I have come to think that God does not much care what our specific ideas or opinions are, because they're always wrong. When Christ healed the man at the pool, he didn't bother telling the man that the belief that an "angel" "troubled" the waters, and that the "troubled" waters held some magical healing ability, was superstition and nonsense. Instead, he just healed the man of his physical ailment. This seemed to be the mortal Savior's way: Heal people's afflictions, urge them strongly to sin no more, and don't worry about politics or social ideas or strange, superstitious beliefs, because they're irrelevant.

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Many times, the Lord gives us instruction without explaining the details as to why His recommendations or commandments should be followed. At times we may not understand this information or His intentions. He is not required to immediately correct our incorrect assumptions. But he does know what we are thinking. He can use our misconceptions and failures for our growth and benefit. And this can be an extremely powerful learning experience. 


One of the greatest things that we can learn in life, is to trust and obey our Father.

Edited by mikbone
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On 2/23/2023 at 1:55 PM, The Folk Prophet said:

I've never heard the concept of a premortal family other all of us being God's children. Is that something you picked up from somewhere or is it just the unorthodox thing? 

edit: I mean I guess Saturday's Warrior alluded to something akin...but.......??

I have been unable to reconcile “Agency” as the number one doctrine of our intelligent pre-existence with even the slightest idea that we come to this life without any pre-directions or plans concerning our most important eternal choices to be made in this life.

 

The Traveler

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On 2/23/2023 at 11:54 AM, scottyg said:

As I was reading D&C 3 this week (specifically verse 2) I was reminded of a past experience. About 7 years ago, my wife and I had our 3rd child. After the child was born, I received a strong spiritual impression that my family was complete - that 3 children were what was being sent to me by the Lord, and that our family as presently constituted would be my family for my duration on the earth. The impression was very specific, comforting, and clear - it was not my own thoughts. I was a bit taken aback by this as my wife and I hadn't ruled out having more children. We took each potential pregnancy one at a time, and had talked about possibly having up to 5 kids. Later, after talking with her about this she also said she felt like we were done having children, and that our family was complete. We were both happy with the impression and life was great.

Fast forward 5 years, and we ended up having a 4th child. We never felt like we needed another one, and we weren't trying to have one, but we also weren't preventing it per se. Now, I love my youngest, and we're very happy to now have 4 kids, but I have always pondered that impression I received. Does anyone have any thoughts as to why the Lord would send me a clear spiritual impression about my long-term family if He knew that our situation would be changing in a few years? Why not just let us continue our lives, and give us the impression to have another kid when the time was right if our family needed one? Neither of us were against having another child, and if that impression came, we would have done it wholeheartedly.

Yes, God's ways are not our ways, but He also doesn't say one thing and then do another. I have thought about if for a couple of years now and it still befuddles me; God is omniscient, so why would I receive an impression from Him that was contradictory to, or inconsistent with what would ultimately happen?

There is more than one source of our spiritual impressions.  Part of the intent of our fallen mortal experience is to learn through experience how to realize the source of our spiritual impressions.

 

The Traveler

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4 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I have been unable to reconcile “Agency” as the number one doctrine of our intelligent pre-existence with even the slightest idea that we come to this life without any pre-directions or plans concerning our most important eternal choices to be made in this life.

This comment makes no sense to me. Perhaps you can clarify.

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21 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

This comment makes no sense to me. Perhaps you can clarify.

I do not believe that Agency can exclude knowledge and intelligence.  In other words, we cannot choose something to which we are ignorant.  Such is a guess and not really a choice.  Agency requires knowledge and intelligence – otherwise the cause of what results is not a power within us but of necessity is reliant on “things” outside of our abilities to determine.  

I cannot imagine a more important exercise of our agency than who we select and are sealed to eternally.  This would mean that part of our experience of this life would enhance and support our choices and determinations made from the light and intelligence we obtained in our pre-existence.

I find no resistance to the possibility that G-d knows and has a plan for our life as well as for all of his children.  Because I believe our Father in Heaven is a G-d of light and truth – I do not believe that he could withhold any light and truth from us and still grant us the gift of Agency – which was so important to cause the war in heaven.  I do not believe that anything can happen in this life without our giving permission (agency/choice) in the pre-existence.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler
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3 hours ago, Traveler said:

I do not believe that Agency can exclude knowledge and intelligence.  In other words, we cannot choose something to which we are ignorant.  Such is a guess and not really a choice.  Agency requires knowledge and intelligence – otherwise the cause of what results is not a power within us but of necessity is reliant on “things” outside of our abilities to determine.  

I cannot imagine a more important exercise of our agency than who we select and are sealed to eternally.  This would mean that part of our experience of this life would enhance and support our choices and determinations made from the light and intelligence we obtained in our pre-existence.

I find no resistance to the possibility that G-d knows and has a plan for our life as well as for all of his children.  Because I believe our Father in Heaven is a G-d of light and truth – I do not believe that he could withhold any light and truth from us and still grant us the gift of Agency – which was so important to cause the war in heaven.  I do not believe that anything can happen in this life without our giving permission (agency/choice) in the pre-existence.

 

The Traveler

Are you suggesting that choices we made in the preexisting about our mortal family structure negate the ability to make choices about it here? 

Also, why do you believe who we are sealed to eternally is important? 

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1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Are you suggesting that choices we made in the preexisting about our mortal family structure negate the ability to make choices about it here? 

Also, why do you believe who we are sealed to eternally is important? 

I believe your questions are excellent questions – I have asked them myself and pondered such concepts much.  Here is my prominent logic at this point – I am very open to discussion and especially new information.   To me a discussion may include what I have already considered but mostly I would be interested in information that I have not considered that would change the logical conclusion. 

First – If G-d knows from the pre-existence (which can also be referred to as “in the beginning?” – as expressed in Genesis) what choices we will make – does G-d’s knowledge negate our ability to make choices in this life?  If he knows our choices in this life (especially important and critical choices) – why would he not let us know and participate in such decisions and choices before we came to earth?  The D&C tells us that Agency is the means that manifests that which was from the beginning (or determined in the pre-existence).

Second – I am not sure we can conclude that our fallen experience does not extend beyond death – this is why vicarious work for the dead is done in the temples of G-d.  The concept of the resurrection is the concept of restoring.  The Book of Mormon goes into great detail in suggesting that even seemingly insignificant things like a single hair will not be lost.  Why would anything be lost that the children of G-d, covenanted with G-d in the presents of the light and truth of the pre-existence to be restored – even if our choices in this life (without such light and truth) were somehow made in contrary to G-d’s knowledge?  Repentance is aligning ourselves with G-d and His knowledge.  We are also told in Alma that there is a time between death and the resurrection to complete our repentance (alignment with G-d’s light).

 

As to your final question – if it was not important who we are individually sealed to – why not just be sealed to Christ alone as most all Christian sects suggest or think.  I assume that since we are sealed eternally to an individual in marriage and also to parents (one specific man and one specific woman) – that every sealing is therefore eternally important and should be respected as such.  I honestly cannot come to any logic that who we are sealed to is of no importance or consequence in eternity.  I have attempted to rationalize this logic – but cannot make any sense of it.

 

Are you interested in discussing these things in more detail?

 

The Traveler

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10 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I believe your questions are excellent questions – I have asked them myself and pondered such concepts much.  Here is my prominent logic at this point – I am very open to discussion and especially new information.   To me a discussion may include what I have already considered but mostly I would be interested in information that I have not considered that would change the logical conclusion. 

First – If G-d knows from the pre-existence (which can also be referred to as “in the beginning?” – as expressed in Genesis) what choices we will make – does G-d’s knowledge negate our ability to make choices in this life?  If he knows our choices in this life (especially important and critical choices) – why would he not let us know and participate in such decisions and choices before we came to earth?  The D&C tells us that Agency is the means that manifests that which was from the beginning (or determined in the pre-existence).

Second – I am not sure we can conclude that our fallen experience does not extend beyond death – this is why vicarious work for the dead is done in the temples of G-d.  The concept of the resurrection is the concept of restoring.  The Book of Mormon goes into great detail in suggesting that even seemingly insignificant things like a single hair will not be lost.  Why would anything be lost that the children of G-d, covenanted with G-d in the presents of the light and truth of the pre-existence to be restored – even if our choices in this life (without such light and truth) were somehow made in contrary to G-d’s knowledge?  Repentance is aligning ourselves with G-d and His knowledge.  We are also told in Alma that there is a time between death and the resurrection to complete our repentance (alignment with G-d’s light).

Does that mean you believe everyone willfully chose whether they will be in the the Telestial, Terrestrial, or Celestial kingdoms prior to mortality? And does that further mean that you believe that this life is not a test?

13 minutes ago, Traveler said:

As to your final question – if it was not important who we are individually sealed to – why not just be sealed to Christ alone as most all Christian sects suggest or think.

Can we procreate with Christ?

14 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I assume that since we are sealed eternally to an individual in marriage and also to parents (one specific man and one specific woman) – that every sealing is therefore eternally important and should be respected as such.

What do you believe the important part of being "sealed" is?

14 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I honestly cannot come to any logic that who we are sealed to is of no importance or consequence in eternity.

It doesn't logically resonate with you that one perfect, exalted, all-knowing, all-loving being might be no different than another perfect, exalted, all-knowing, all-loving being?

18 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Are you interested in discussing these things in more detail?

Have you forgotten that we've gone the rounds on this many, many times, with many frustrated feelings following?

I'll pose my responses as questions. You can justify your position in response as you like. But I'll forgo countering those positions.

Anyhow, I'd be surprised if you cannot recall my view on these matters. I've expressed it to you in great detail.

 

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On 2/23/2023 at 2:04 PM, The Folk Prophet said:

Who says you interpreted what He said correctly?

Maybe what He said was, "You're done, for now" and in your mortal weakness you just didn't understand the "for now" part.

Or maybe it was "you're done" without the "for now" because they were to feel complete and content and treat their 3 that way.  If the Lord also told them "for now" things wouldn't feel the same, which might influence their relationships and appreciation for their current state.

With that feeling, they didn't need to wonder or worry if they'd have another baby.  They could be content.  The spacing was good and perhaps necessary for their children.

If they wanted or expected another child for a couple of years there likely would have been stress and heartache until the baby finally arrived. Many parents and many who long to be parents have felt that hardship.  It's nice they didn't have to go through that.

After a season of being a family of 5, it became time to advance to another stage of life and you were blessed with another. Congrats!

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