Kapernick Interview About Being Raised by Racist Parents


Carborendum
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This CBS interview of Colin Kapernick https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colin-kaepernick-new-book-change-the-game-activism-nfl/  was an interesting look at his take on racism.

First, it was a real look at what he's like in a longer conversation rather than "the public image."  Was it completely genuine?  Maybe, maybe not.  But it was probably closer than the "image" we've seen in the past.

And it is more understandable why leftists are so easily taken in by the woke culture.  When they see it in this light, it seems so matter-of-fact.  It seems like the "everyman" would be woke -- if you consider an NFL star and the celebrity "face of Nike" to be an everyman.

I'd like to make a comment about one aspect which he and I share.  We're both minorities who were adopted/raised by white parents.  Some sites are saying that he "threw his parents under the bus" because they said/did some things that he considered racist.  Well, I don't think he did.  What he said in the interview were his observations about the mildly "racist" behavior of his parents.  The fact is that my parents did very similar things with me.  So, I absolutely believe he was offering an accurate portrayal.

It was interesting to hear that he wasn't actually calling them racists.  He asked "how do I navigate this?"  That's a fair question.  How do you think he did?  

It is easy to say that they were simply giving him good parenting advice.  And that would be true.  But from the woke perspective, this is "unconscious racism."  In a way, I understand that.  And maybe it is accurate.  Maybe.  But what does it matter?  Did they not love him as they would have if he were white?  Additional information:

https://stylecaster.com/colin-kaepernick-parents/

He says they loved him. But they just didn't understand what it was like for a black kid growing up.  They probably didn't.  But what struck me was that he felt like there were some things that were "inherently black" that he actually had a choice about.  Why did he choose those things?  Were they good choices that would produce good results?  Or were they simply preferences that accentuated differences?  The corn rows discussion seem to fall into the latter category.

Based on nearly zero information on his parents that seems to be publicly available, I'll go ahead and concede him a point.  His parents were products of their times and had some "harmless racist perspectives" that were part of mainstream culture of the time.  Why was that such a big deal? 

The fact is that everyone has mild racism.  It is because the human mind wants to categorize things in order to make sense of the world.  You're going to get some things right and some things wrong.  The same can be said about any type if categorizing method we use to make sense of anything.

By that token, my parents were also racist.  And they didn't try to hide it.  They seemed to want to accentuate it.  In later years, my father told me that he did that to prevent the "walking on eggshells" atmosphere regarding race in our household.  In a sense, it worked.  But it also showed me that he wasn't all that rational / logical of a human being.  For the most part I didn't even think about race growing up.  But they sure did.

I just did what I did because I seemed to gravitate towards things.  And what happened?  I'm now an Asian engineer.  Wow!  Didn't see that coming.

So, after listening to Kapernick talk about his upbringing, I realized that we had a lot of similar experiences -- or rather, parallel, experiences regarding racist parents.  But the difference is that I ended up just doing what I do because I followed my nature without thinking about race. He chose to do what he did by "blaming" all his success and fortune on a racist culture that hates him so much that it made him a multi-millionaire. 

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Guest Godless

Very well-said. I appreciate your perspective on this. I feel like the last bit could have been left out, though.

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

He chose to do what he did by "blaming" all his success and fortune on a racist culture that hates him so much that it made him a multi-millionaire. 

Is that what you think his activism was about? I see statements like this a lot about athletes (almost always black ones) who express concern about race issues in the US. It's always "ungrateful millionaires" this and "rich crybabies" that, with seemingly little consideration for the fact that a lot of these athletes come from very ordinary (at best) backgrounds, and a lot of them have friends and families who are still part of ordinary, or in some cases impoverished, communities. They hit the lottery, so to speak, and they want to look after the people who helped them get there.

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Here's a double standard I see sometimes:

1. Kapernick is a good guy doing his best, and his detractors are foolish, biased, wrong, and possibly racist for disagreeing.

2. Gina Carano's single Tweet means she's an ignorant racist twit and it was right of Disney to fire her, and people who disagree are hate-filled bigots.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Godless said:

Very well-said. I appreciate your perspective on this. I feel like the last bit could have been left out, though.

Is that what you think his activism was about? I see statements like this a lot about athletes (almost always black ones) who express concern about race issues in the US. It's always "ungrateful millionaires" this and "rich crybabies" that, with seemingly little consideration for the fact that a lot of these athletes come from very ordinary (at best) backgrounds, and a lot of them have friends and families who are still part of ordinary, or in some cases impoverished, communities. They hit the lottery, so to speak, and they want to look after the people who helped them get there.

*Shrug* His internal motivations are his internal motivations, and to some extent unknowable by the rest of us.  But the result of his actions seems to be primarily a) a demand that cops be more lenient with criminal suspects who are racial minorities than they would be with criminal suspects who are not racial minorities; and b) the demonization of ordinary Americans who were starting to suspect half a century after the Civil Rights Act and the end of government-permitted educational/employment discrimination, redlining, etc., that the lack of improvement in (and sometimes, deterioration of) the situation of the American black community in matters of criminal justice and economic, health, and social progress may be at least in part a result of ongoing attitudes and behaviors and life choices that have become common within the black community itself.

Going back to the OP a bit:  I think one of the problems of modern racial discourse is that the classical definition of “racism” (adverse treatment of an individual due to their racial/ethnic background) has been extended to people who quite naturally prefer that which is familiar to them in terms of culture/ values/ aesthetics; such that we treat a person who thinks cornrows look ridiculous on any kind of hair—or that maybe western-type linear thinking and competition are objectively conducive to innovation and scientific advancement—or that you shouldn’t have to like people getting up in your face all the time just because that’s how they, personally, were raised to handle conflict—as being Literally Hitler (or at least, George Wallace).  

We should be fair and open-minded and considerate and empathetic and thoughtful about possible new ways of thinking and doing; but we shouldn’t be afraid to sometimes (or even rather often) say “You know what? After careful consideration—I still think my way is better.”  And people should understand that human nature is such that the more outlandishly you behave, express yourself, groom yourself, etc., the more likely your surrounding culture is to treat you as a bit of an outlander; and that while that may be unfortunate—it doesn’t put you on par with the SS, the Klan, or the Boogaloo Boys.  It sounds like Kaepernik’s parents were sensibly telling him “look, if you make yourself look like a freak, you’re likely to be treated as something of a freak; and that’s not going to be fun for you.”  Maybe they didn’t handle it well; maybe the underlying assumptions were even a little bit off—but it’s too bad that he (or his hearers) chose to punish “the people who helped him get there” by tarring them with the “R” word.

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15 hours ago, Godless said:

Is that what you think his activism was about?

We have no way of knowing what his activism is "about".  We don't really know his motivations.  What we know is his history, his current status, and his current actions and words.  From there all we can do is interpret based on logic and reasoning.

15 hours ago, Godless said:

I see statements like this a lot about athletes (almost always black ones) who express concern about race issues in the US. It's always "ungrateful millionaires" this and "rich crybabies" that, with seemingly little consideration for the fact that a lot of these athletes come from very ordinary (at best) backgrounds, and a lot of them have friends and families who are still part of ordinary, or in some cases impoverished, communities. They hit the lottery, so to speak, and they want to look after the people who helped them get there.

Being an NFL star is always winning the lottery.  But it isn't completely random.  It is largely  based on merit.  And for some reason liberals think there is something wrong with hiring someone because they can perform well at a given job. (Side note: Due to wokeness, an Ivy League school just voted to drop standard test scores as a criterion for admission).

I haven't really been able to find what "poverty" he lived in as a child.  He was adopted in Wisconsin.  But they moved to Turlock, CA after four years.  Turlock has lower than average income.  But it is also home to some of the highest home prices in the country.  What part of Turlock did he grow up in?  I don't know. 

Another parallel.  Not only was I raised for several years in Korea (which was much poorer than the vast majority of the US), but I also spent the first few years in America sleeping in an attic with living conditions that probably wouldn't meet residential code today.  Then my parents had saved enough to move into a "real" (middle class) home less than a mile away in the same city.  And that's where I grew up.

It seems that Colin had a similar upbringing.  The major difference was that his natural talents were in his body, while mine were in my head.  And we were placed in an environment where we were both allowed to hone those talents to our benefit.  And because we could develop our God-given talents, we became top dogs in our chosen fields.

There is no evidence that there was any kind of "black community" which he identified with growing up.  The city has less than 1% black people.  Given the overall population at the time he was in high school, there weren't even enough black people to call a "community."  So, just where did he get these friends who were so "oppressed"?  Who was he fighting for?  Who were the impoverished black people who helped him get there?  All I can tell is that his parents worked really hard to give him a better life, and he took advantage of that.  That's what intact families do.

The same result would have been possible regardless of his race or the race of his parents.  It is the intact family with the goal of generational growth and prosperity that got him where he is.  A mother and a father who were both dedicated to making sacrifices for their children's fuutre that got him where he is.

And that is why I have to wonder why, after all this time, he's still complaining about corn-rows when his parents sacrificed for him in order to get him where he is today. 

 

Vignette: I believe I posted about this a long time ago, but it bears repeating.

I was in a specific location where a bunch of "white boys" were being extremely rowdy at late hours.  I yelled at them to shut it down and go home.  Most of them felt enough shame to leave without complaint.  One boy yelled back, "Why don't you just go back Japan where you belong!"  The thing about that was that I was more upset that he got the wrong nation than I was about the racism.  I figured that both issues were about stupidity more than about hate. 

Later, one of the boys came to me personally and apologized for the comment the other boy made.  He wanted me to know that this other boy was the only one who felt that way, and all the others told him so.

Racism in this scenario is just plain stupidity.  You can't legislate against stupidity. And you can't really erase it from society.  And the truth is that every single individual is guilty of some kind of stupid behavior.  Are we really supposed to get up in arms and have protests and activism whenever anyone is just being stupid?  We'd spend our entire lives in a never-ending state of anger.

There are plenty of examples where it goes beyond just plain stupidity.  And the vast majority of the time, it is prosecuted by law as it should be.  But it seems that most of the time, people get up in arms about simple stupidity -- or less.

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38 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

We have no way of knowing what his activism is "about".  We don't really know his motivations.  What we know is his history, his current status, and his current actions and words.  From there all we can do is interpret based on logic and reasoning.

Being an NFL star is always winning the lottery.  But it isn't completely random.  It is largely  based on merit.  And for some reason liberals think there is something wrong with hiring someone because they can perform well at a given job. (Side note: Due to wokeness, an Ivy League school just voted to drop standard test scores as a criterion for admission).

I haven't really been able to find what "poverty" he lived in as a child.  He was adopted in Wisconsin.  But they moved to Turlock, CA after four years.  Turlock has lower than average income.  But it is also home to some of the highest home prices in the country.  What part of Turlock did he grow up in?  I don't know. 

Another parallel.  Not only was I raised for several years in Korea (which was much poorer than the vast majority of the US), but I also spent the first few years in America sleeping in an attic with living conditions that probably wouldn't meet residential code today.  Then my parents had saved enough to move into a "real" (middle class) home less than a mile away in the same city.  And that's where I grew up.

It seems that Colin had a similar upbringing.  The major difference was that his natural talents were in his body, while mine were in my head.  And we were placed in an environment where we were both allowed to hone those talents to our benefit.  And because we could develop our God-given talents, we became top dogs in our chosen fields.

There is no evidence that there was any kind of "black community" which he identified with growing up.  The city has less than 1% black people.  Given the overall population at the time he was in high school, there weren't even enough black people to call a "community."  So, just where did he get these friends who were so "oppressed"?  Who was he fighting for?  Who were the impoverished black people who helped him get there?  All I can tell is that his parents worked really hard to give him a better life, and he took advantage of that.  That's what intact families do.

The same result would have been possible regardless of his race or the race of his parents.  It is the intact family with the goal of generational growth and prosperity that got him where he is.  A mother and a father who were both dedicated to making sacrifices for their children's fuutre that got him where he is.

And that is why I have to wonder why, after all this time, he's still complaining about corn-rows when his parents sacrificed for him in order to get him where he is today. 

I wasn't necessarily talking about Kaepernick specifically in that part of my post. A better "rags to riches" story would be Lebron James, raised in a poor household by a single mother who was 16 when he was born. And there are a myriad of other professional athletes with similar backgrounds. If nothing else, Kaepernick has probably used the life experiences of some of his NFL peers to hone his views on race. He may not share the life experiences of his peers, but that doesmean he can't learn from them.

And as far as community goes, the black community is one that's sometimes defined by nothing else than skin color. People who cheekily ask why there's no "White History Month" take for granted the fact that their heritage is often well-documented going back several centuries. For many black Americans, their known family and cultural history begins on a Southern plantation. Some of their oldest geneological documents are records from slave auctions. THAT'S something that Kaepernick likely has in common with his peers. Obviously that doesn't fully define him now, it seems he's trying to make an honest attempt at honoring his racial identity despite his privileged upbringing. I get that it doesn't make much sense to the outside observer, myself included, but I think it's important to respect the cultural identity of people who had their culture ripped away from them in the early days of our country's history.

38 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Racism in this scenario is just plain stupidity.  You can't legislate against stupidity. And you can't really erase it from society.  And the truth is that every single individual is guilty of some kind of stupid behavior.  Are we really supposed to get up in arms and have protests and activism whenever anyone is just being stupid?  We'd spend our entire lives in a never-ending state of anger.

There are plenty of examples where it goes beyond just plain stupidity.  And the vast majority of the time, it is prosecuted by law as it should be.  But it seems that most of the time, people get up in arms about simple stupidity -- or less.

I'd argue that there's probably at least a small amount of correlation between racism borne of stupidity and racism borne of genuine malice and hate. Ignorance and stupidity are often the seeds that grow into hate and prejudice, and I think it could be argued that the former often encourages and enables the latter. It's true that stupidity and racism will never be erased from society, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to correct it when we see it.

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2 hours ago, Godless said:

I wasn't necessarily talking about Kaepernick specifically in that part of my post. A better "rags to riches" story would be Lebron James, raised in a poor household by a single mother who was 16 when he was born. And there are a myriad of other professional athletes with similar backgrounds. If nothing else, Kaepernick has probably used the life experiences of some of his NFL peers to hone his views on race. He may not share the life experiences of his peers, but that doesmean he can't learn from them.

I would have a lot less of a problem with Lebron James saying it than Kapernick.  But how often does he thank America for the blessings he enjoys today.  Maybe he had a few more obstacles than another.  But he made it and he enjoys it.  Maybe if he spent as much time pointing out, "Hey, it took a lot to get where I am today. But I made it.  You can too."  The world might be a better place.

2 hours ago, Godless said:

And as far as community goes, the black community is one that's sometimes defined by nothing else than skin color.

That's a problem no matter where you're coming from.  If you keep making things about race, then there is no hope of ever being rid of it.

Quote

WALLACE: How are we going to get rid of racism until ...?

FREEMAN: Stop talking about it. I'm going to stop calling you a white man. And I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman. You're not going to say, "I know this white guy named Mike Wallace." Hear what I'm saying?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/morgan-freeman-on-black-history-month/

The logic is really pretty simple.  If you keep making race the central issue of any exchange, then it will always be an issue.  It seems logical to me.

2 hours ago, Godless said:

People who cheekily ask why there's no "White History Month" take for granted the fact that their heritage is often well-documented going back several centuries.

My position echo's Mr. Freeman's opinion on Black History Month.  And it was not about what genealogy we should do or anything like that.

Quote

WALLACE: Black History Month, you find ...

FREEMAN: Ridiculous.

WALLACE: Why?

FREEMAN: You're going to relegate my history to a month?

WALLACE: Come on.

FREEMAN: What do you do with yours? Which month is White History Month? Come on, tell me.

WALLACE: I'm Jewish.

FREEMAN: OK. Which month is Jewish History Month?

WALLACE: There isn't one.

FREEMAN: Why not? Do you want one?

WALLACE: No, no.

FREEMAN: I don't either. I don't want a Black History Month. Black history is American history.

,

2 hours ago, Godless said:

For many black Americans, their known family and cultural history begins on a Southern plantation.

I have an Asian history that goes back exactly zero generations before me.  I have no way of obtaining records beyond that.  Korea was still recovering from the Korean War when my parents were married.  I don't even know if they have birth certificates.  My birth certificate was created by court order.  I have no way of really knowing if my birthdate is accurate.  We know my sister has the wrong year on her birth cert.  We believe it has the wrong day.

My adopted family has records.  And I research those for my family tree.

Kapernick chose his history that he wanted to care about.  His birth mother was white.  He could easily honor both lines of his family tree (or all four, if you see what I mean).  He chose differently than I did.  If you look nothing other than what choices we made regarding our personal history, which of us do you think is more grateful for what we have and who we are?

What genealogy has he done?  What do they do with that history?  What does it mean to them?

I thought it was funny to hear there was an Asian Awareness Month.  I still don't know which month that is.  I think they may have done away with it.  I've never personally met anyone who cares.  And Asians sure have a lot more emphasis on family history and honoring one's ancestors than most other demographics.

If I were firmly in the same camp as Kapernick about my personal history, I'd be highly offended that they would lump Chines, Japanese, and Koreans all in the same group.  Both Chinese and Japanese spent a lot of the 20th century enslaving Koreans and using the prettier women as comfort women.  There's even a big to do over it right now (current news).  The last few survivors of Japanese slave labor camps have been asking for Japanese reparations for WWII.  

Why wouldn't the children of those slaves be asking for reparations?  Because even after enslavement, individuals and families picked up the pieces and began rebuilding.  And it wasn't easy given the Chinese desire to unify all of the Asian race under one Chinese banner (Korean War).  But they moved on.  How?  America defended them and supported them financially.  The Koreans used that money and relative peace to get on their own feet.  The nation and the people had that mentality.  That's what saved them.  In the past 20 years South Korea has gone up and down from #15 to #8 (I think they're #12 now) largest economy in the world. 

The American Black community has had a very different and varied story.  A large portion of Black America mirrored what the South Koreans did.  And their levels of success are just as promising as South Korea. 

Much of the remaining community voluntarily took on the mentality of North Korea, with somewhat similar results.

2 hours ago, Godless said:

Some of their oldest geneological documents are records from slave auctions. THAT'S something that Kaepernick likely has in common with his peers. Obviously that doesn't fully define him now, it seems he's trying to make an honest attempt at honoring his racial identity despite his privileged upbringing. I get that it doesn't make much sense to the outside observer, myself included, but I think it's important to respect the cultural identity of people who had their culture ripped away from them in the early days of our country's history.

I cannot say that there is any we can compare to the history of black slavery in America. It was among the worst travesties and abominations in history.

I can certainly have sympathy for the people enduring the shameful history of slavery in this country -- the country that promised the world that all men are created equal.  And I share some level of anger for those people 200 years ago.  And I'll grant that it took a couple generations to get away from it even after the abolition of slavery.  But if you're aware of the history from the 30s onward, you'll find that the past slavery was only a small portion of what defines the poverty of the Black America today.

Do I respect the cultural identity of Korea?  Absolutely.  Do I announce it and bring it up at parties?  Sure.  It's interesting history.  And as a student of language and cultures, I like delving into that sort of thing.  But I did not experience WWII or the Korean War.  I was not alive during that time.

I felt only a few years of the poverty that Korea was still getting out of.  But we didn't have to worry about war (at least, I didn't as a child).

I can certainly have a lot of sympathy for those who did.  But I think it is presumptuous of me to believe that I can "identify" with their suffering.  If I were to meet that generation and say that I was one of them, they would think I'm completely out-of-touch.  There's no way I could identify with them.  How could I possibly know or even properly empathize with their tragedies?

That is where I think Kapernick's "identifying" is completely irrational.

It's a "balanced" perspective between two extremes:

  • If you're not a woman you have no right to even have an opinion on the plight of women in this world.
  • If you're a privileged woman who has never felt need in her entire life, you're still in our group because all women are oppressed.

Instead I'd look at it this way:

  • You can have sympathy and an intellectual understanding of someone who's gone through an experience.
  • You cannot "identify" with them because you haven't experienced the troubles they have.
2 hours ago, Godless said:

I'd argue that there's probably at least a small amount of correlation between racism borne of stupidity and racism borne of genuine malice and hate. Ignorance and stupidity are often the seeds that grow into hate and prejudice, and I think it could be argued that the former often encourages and enables the latter. It's true that stupidity and racism will never be erased from society, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to correct it when we see it.

Of course.  We do our best.  I believe the level of outrage must fit the crime.

If I were to meet with someone who fought the Japanese and the Chinese, I believe the one message I could give to them was that because they laid down the groundwork, I was able to make something of myself.  And it is all because you made the sacrifices, whether voluntarily or not.  You made the sacrifice for me.  And I am grateful.

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4 hours ago, Godless said:

I'd argue that there's probably at least a small amount of correlation between racism borne of stupidity and racism borne of genuine malice and hate. Ignorance and stupidity are often the seeds that grow into hate and prejudice, and I think it could be argued that the former often encourages and enables the latter. It's true that stupidity and racism will never be erased from society, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to correct it when we see it.

If you truly feel this way, then why on earth aren't you leading the charge against the anti-white, anti-male, anti-conservative-values, anti-Christian hatemongers surrounding us today?

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2 hours ago, Vort said:

If you truly feel this way, then why on earth aren't you leading the charge against the anti-white, anti-male, anti-conservative-values, anti-Christian hatemongers surrounding us today?

For starters, because I don't believe that a lot of that is anything more than privileged people freaking out because their privilege is slowly crumbling. There's a culture war raging in the US right now, and I'll gladly recognize that people on both sides of it have gotten overzealous in recent years. Liberals, like conservatives, never get everything 100% right. But I generally think that the right doth protest too much on a lot of issues.

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3 minutes ago, Godless said:

There's a culture war raging in the US right now, and I'll gladly recognize that people on both sides of it have gotten overzealous in recent years

I think the culture wars have fundamentally changed.  Conservatives sort of gave up on gay marriage and while they’ll still whine about what Rihanna wore at the Super Bowl- you won’t see a massive outcry with letter writing campaigns, calling the FCC, etc. Those people absolutely exist but have gotten much much smaller. 
 

Everything I said about the right can be said about your side and guns. Oh sure, you’ll still see gun control activists but even the left has realized that's sort of a losing battle for them. 

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27 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Everything I said about the right can be said about your side and guns. Oh sure, you’ll still see gun control activists but even the left has realized that's sort of a losing battle for them. 

True. I also think that MAGA culture pushed quite a few liberals into leftist territory and they discovered that leftists like guns.

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2 hours ago, Godless said:

For starters, because I don't believe that a lot of that is anything more than privileged people freaking out because their privilege is slowly crumbling.

So in other words, you disbelieve that there are anti-white, anti-male, anti-conservative-values, anti-Christian hatemongers surrounding us today?

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3 minutes ago, Vort said:

So in other words, you disbelieve that there are anti-white, anti-male, anti-conservative-values, anti-Christian hatemongers surrounding us today?

Generally, yes. Do the people you're describing exist? Sure, but I think you're giving their influence too much credit. And I'll reiterate, greater equity for one (or more) group(s) doesn't mean oppression for others. Fighting for racial justice isn't anti-white. Fighting for women's rights isn't anti-male. Fighting for LGBTQ rights isn't anti-straight. Fighting for secular ideas isn't anti-Christian. Sure, bigots exist in those movements, and they're no better than the bigots they're fighting against. But I'd hardly say that they "surround" anyone, though to be fair I've never been to your hippie corner of the PNW. Maybe it's worse there. 🤷‍♂️

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9 minutes ago, Godless said:

And I'll reiterate, greater equity for one (or more) group(s) doesn't mean oppression for others. Fighting for racial justice isn't anti-white. Fighting for women's rights isn't anti-male. Fighting for LGBTQ rights isn't anti-straight. Fighting for secular ideas isn't anti-Christian.

Why are you reiterating this? Did someone here suggest something to the contrary?

Let me reiterate: Stomping on puppies is bad.

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24 minutes ago, Godless said:

Sure, but I think you're giving their influence too much credit.

In reality, I’ve always thought there was far less racism then both sides think there is. Down here we all live together in the same communities-Asians, African Americans, Hispanics, Caucasians. If we all hated each other there would be a race war daily. 
 

Both sides make grave mistakes on race. The left loves to wage class and race warfare because it’s how they get votes. The right gives lip service to racism being a thing but then downplays or dismisses even the most legit claims of racism. 
 

Open racism is also not tolerated. Yes, even down here (actually especially down here) mixed race marriages are pretty common. Even the boomers down here no longer stare at a white guy dating a black girl. 
 

It just gets harder to hate someone based on their skin color when you see one another every day. 

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10 minutes ago, Vort said:

Why are you reiterating this? Did someone here suggest something to the contrary?

Let me reiterate: Stomping on puppies is bad.

 

Your original question seemed to suggest that you believe that we are, in fact, surrounded by those hateful anti-'s. I wanted to make sure I was clear about how I feel on the matter. But yes, I suppose I was being a tad redundant.

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3 minutes ago, Godless said:

Your original question seemed to suggest that you believe that we are, in fact, surrounded by those hateful anti-'s.

Indeed I do. What does that have to do with what you wrote?

3 minutes ago, Godless said:

I wanted to make sure I was clear about how I feel on the matter.

That's fine, but how you feel has nothing to do with what I asked. I asked if you disbelieved that anti-white, anti-male, anti-conservative-values, anti-Christian bigotry surrounded us. You answered that thus-and-such doesn't constitute bigotry. That's non sequitur. Unless, of course, you meant implicitly to accuse me of taking such things as bigotry, in which case I will call you out on your false statement and misrepresentation of my beliefs.

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Guest Godless
1 minute ago, Vort said:

That's fine, but how you feel has nothing to do with what I asked. I asked if you disbelieved that anti-white, anti-male, anti-conservative-values, anti-Christian bigotry surrounded us. You answered that thus-and-such doesn't constitute bigotry.

I said that I generally disbelieve that anti-xyz bigotry surrounds us. I probably expounded more than I needed to, but I gave you a clear answer up front.

1 minute ago, Vort said:

That's non sequitur. Unless, of course, you meant implicitly to accuse me of taking such things as bigotry, in which case I will call you out on your false statement and misrepresentation of my beliefs.

We bash heads a lot on here and while I don't know you personally, I have no reason to believe that you're so close-minded to believe that any form of liberal social activism is bigotry. You clearly believe that the zealots/bigots on my side are more numerous and influential than I do. That's fine. You have your life experiences and I have mine. I apologize if I overthought your line of questioning.

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I'm sure everyone here knows my feelings about Kapernick.  I've pretty much ignored him for years now.  I just heard today someone say this was about his parents and his hairdo.  His hairdo?!  My parents hated my hairstyle at that age too.  Just like I say about AOC, just when I think he can't get any dumber...

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