Only Begotten


mikbone
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2 hours ago, CV75 said:

It does not seem to matter that Elizabeth required Zacharias' seed to conceive, while Mary did not when she also was acted upon by the power to make all things possible (D&C 88: 6, 13, 17, 40, 41, 67).

Its never a problem for men to produce sperm.  Men are good to go.  Women produce all their eggs even before they are born.  And usually every month they mature and drop a single egg from one ovary.  At menopause the ovaries run out of eggs and stop producing the hormones that make the uterus a fertile field.

I always assumed that God rejuvenated Elizabeth’s womb.  Just like Sarah (Genesis 11:30), Rebekah (25:21), and Rachel (29:31).

The virgin’s womb was fertile.  Just needed a seed.

 

Doctors have already taken post-menopausal women given them the correct hormones (rejuvenating the uterus) and successfully implanted a viable embryo.  

https://people.com/human-interest/utah-grandmother-gives-birth-son-daughter-in-law-baby-feeling-so-blessed/

As far as I know a virgin has never born a child other than Jesus' mother.

Although, there is this interesting tale…

https://www.almanac.com/content/first-case-artificial-insemination-bullet

Edited by mikbone
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From a Medical point of view, strictly based on the technical definitions:

Fertilization - the union of sperm from the father and Ovum (egg) from the mother, combining the genetic material, if successful this creates a viable embryo

Begotten, beget - To Father, Sire

Conception - Implantation of the fertilized egg or embryo into the Uterine wall.

Born, Birth - Delivery of the child from the mother's uterus to the outside world. 

Alma 7:10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and concieve by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.

As I read this: 

1) Mary delivered the child Jesus. 

2) Mary was a virgin (no coitus). 

3) Mary was a precious and chosen vessel (objectively, this suggests that Mary was a surrogate mother).

4) The Holy Ghost assisted in the conception of the embryo (the Holy Ghost delivered the embryo of Christ onto the wall Mary's Uterus). 

5) Christ is the Son of God. (Elohim begat or sired Jesus by providing the genetic material within the zygote / embryo).

One final defination...

Surrogate Mother - A woman who bears a child for another person, either through artificial insemination or by carrying until birth another woman's surgically implanted fertilized egg.

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2 hours ago, mikbone said:

Its never a problem for men to produce sperm.  Men are good to go.  Women produce all their eggs even before they are born.  And usually every month they mature and drop a single egg from one ovary.  At menopause the ovaries run out of eggs and stop producing the hormones that make the uterus a fertile field.

I always assumed that God rejuvenated Elizabeth’s womb.  Just like Sarah (Genesis 11:30), Rebekah (25:21), and Rachel (29:31).

The virgin’s womb was fertile.  Just needed a seed.

 

Doctors have already taken post-menopausal women given them the correct hormones (rejuvenating the uterus) and successfully implanted a viable embryo.  

https://people.com/human-interest/utah-grandmother-gives-birth-son-daughter-in-law-baby-feeling-so-blessed/

As far as I know a virgin has never born a child other than Jesus' mother.

Although, there is this interesting tale…

https://www.almanac.com/content/first-case-artificial-insemination-bullet

Stem or stem-like cells have been discovered within human ovaries, suggesting that women may actually produce new eggs in their lifetime.

The existence and potential of germline stem cells in the adult mammalian ovary - PMC (nih.gov)

Ovary does harbor stem cells - size of the cells matter! | Journal of Ovarian Research | Full Text (biomedcentral.com)

The controversial existence and functional potential of oogonial stem cells - PubMed (nih.gov)

Of course, this is a very new area of research (the oldest, third link has a list of papers indicating the two opposing fields of thought). But imagine what a virgin’s stem cell of any kind (or any other kind of cell, for that matter) can become when acted upon by the power of God – a new “egg” with divinely programmed DNA that acts like a “sperm” cell -- some men do have a problem producing compatible sperm.

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1 hour ago, CV75 said:

Of course, this is a very new area of research (the oldest, third link has a list of papers indicating the two opposing fields of thought). But imagine what a virgin’s stem cell of any kind (or any other kind of cell, for that matter) can become when acted upon by the power of God – a new “egg” with divinely programmed DNA that acts like a “sperm” cell -- some men do have a problem producing compatible sperm.

Yup, scientist are certainly tinkering.  Luckily current regulations in the USA prohibit ex vivo cell manipulation in the USA.  Likely why Dr. Fauci was associated with the Wuhan Lab...

There are orthopaedic surgeons (quacks, selling snake oil). Who are harvesting adipose tissue from patients because 1:2,000 cells are mesenchymal stem cells.  Mesenchymal stromal cells are 500x more prevelant in adipose tissue than bone marrow. They are then charging the arthritis patients thousands of dollars to inject the 'stem cells' fatty mixture back into the patients knees.  People are paying for this garbage!  The current evidence is that it is totally worthless.  But a very expensive placebo.  Likely the cost of the placebo makes the placebo effect more effective.  

https://boneandjoint.org.uk/article/10.1302/0301-620X.101B4.BJJ-2019-0013.R1

God is so much more advanced than we are.  He no doubt can make an embro (or gametogenesis) with all the qualities that he disires without harvesting stem cells. 

Healing an adult paraplegic with atrophy from a childhood spinal cord injury or allowing someone to see who was blind from birth is much more complicated than gametogenesis.  Apparently 'we' have already cloned 22 different species.  Still no hope for complete spinal cord injuries.  

Edited by mikbone
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10 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Yup, scientist are certainly tinkering.  Luckily current regulations in the USA prohibit ex vivo cell manipulation in the USA.  Likely why Dr. Fauci was associated with the Wuhan Lab...

There are orthopaedic surgeons (quacks, selling snake oil). Who are harvesting adipose tissue from patients because 1:2,000 cells are mesenchymal stem cells.  Mesenchymal stromal cells are 500x more prevelant in adipose tissue than bone marrow. They are then charging the arthritis patients thousands of dollars to inject the 'stem cells' fatty mixture back into the patients knees.  People are paying for this garbage!  The current evidence is that it is totally worthless.  But a very expensive placebo.  Likely the cost of the placebo makes the placebo effect more effective.  

https://boneandjoint.org.uk/article/10.1302/0301-620X.101B4.BJJ-2019-0013.R1

God is so much more advanced than we are.  He no doubt can make an embro (or gametogenesis) with all the qualities that he disires without harvesting stem cells. 

This was the case over 40 years ago when I was a grad student doing policy research for the Church on the subject of in vitro fertilization, part of which entailed the sealing status of children born under various egg and sperm donor permutations. Of course, this involved forays into much more complicated artificial reproduction processes than in vitro fertilization. The Church was well aware of some very, very fringe science going on overseas and was "futuring" on matters that are becoming problematic today, and yet to be actualized enough to be problematic.

I recall a physician (who was to become CDC Director and then a general authority) opining on this project, "God doesn't care how we got here," indicating that he felt nothing would prevent children from being sealed to adoptive/surrogate parents; the project considered the dilemma of using donated cells from spouses other than the sealed couple. The guidance we developed back then remains in today's version of the Handbook.

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11 hours ago, mikbone said:

At menopause the ovaries run out of eggs

Far be it from me to lecture a practicing physician, but...

I believe the average young woman has around 300,000 viable ova at puberty. If she had 24 (!) periods per year for 100 (!!) years, releasing ten (!!!) ova per menstrual cycle, she would not make a significant dent in her supply of ova.

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4 minutes ago, Vort said:

Far be it from me to lecture a practicing physician, but...

I believe the average young woman has around 300,000 viable ova at puberty. If she had 24 (!) periods per year for 100 (!!) years, releasing ten (!!!) ova per menstrual cycle, she would not make a significant dent in her supply of ova.

All of them don’t make it…

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9 minutes ago, Vort said:

Sounds like a miraculously convenient excuse...

Thats what I was thinking.  If the couple was close enough for the immaculate bullet… 

Maybe they knew each other prior to misfortunate accident.

Unlikely that a sperm survives a ride on hot lead.

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10 minutes ago, mikbone said:

All of them don’t make it…

No, but isn't a girl born with like 3,000,000 ova? I don't think menopause is caused by a woman's ovaries running out of eggs. The fact that a post-menopausal woman could become fertile again from hormone treatments suggests that she still has potentially viable ova. Unless 60+-year-old women who get pregnant do so solely through IVF.

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11 minutes ago, Vort said:

No, but isn't a girl born with like 3,000,000 ova? I don't think menopause is caused by a woman's ovaries running out of eggs. The fact that a post-menopausal woman could become fertile again from hormone treatments suggests that she still has potentially viable ova. Unless 60+-year-old women who get pregnant do so solely through IVF.

https://www.cnyfertility.com/how-many-eggs-do-women-have/

Eggs have a way better probability of making it to an embryo than each sperm.

A healthy male can produce half a trillion sperm in a lifetime.

Edited by mikbone
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21 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

The video omits the ending which indicates that parthenogenesis in humans simply doesn't happen.

No, no these dudes thinks its possible.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987717302694

Never mind the insane cost, invasion of privacy, and potential for future Dr. Mengele type studies.

Look up images for a teratoma with teeth (only if you have a strong stomach).  The outcome will not create a perfect being.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, mikbone said:

It doesn't really matter who thinks it is "possible."  We need only answer two questions:

1. Has there ever been any documented case of it happening?  No.
2. Will there ever be a case of a successful human being born from such?  Probably not.

Not a lot of difference between "impossible" vs statistically improbable to the point where we may as well consider it impossible.  Otherwise, we may as well start developing the improbability drive to solve all the world's woes.

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11 hours ago, Vort said:

Far be it from me to lecture a practicing physician, but...

I believe the average young woman has around 300,000 viable ova at puberty. If she had 24 (!) periods per year for 100 (!!) years, releasing ten (!!!) ova per menstrual cycle, she would not make a significant dent in her supply of ova.

Boy am I glad it isn't 24 per year.  12 was enough for me.  :P  

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On 3/20/2023 at 1:20 AM, mikbone said:

Thats what I was thinking.  If the couple was close enough for the immaculate bullet… 

Maybe they knew each other prior to misfortunate accident.

Unlikely that a sperm survives a ride on hot lead.

Not that I believe the story.  But after a musket ball went through several inches of flesh, it wouldn't be so hot as to denature proteins. :D (see what I did there?)

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