Debussy's "Clair de Lune"

[Jamie123]

Call me a Philistine, but I've never understood what people see in this piece. To me, it sounds like the music they play in elevators. I daresay there are beauties there, as this girl points out...

...but they've always been inaudible to me.

(I'd better put on my flame retardant suit before any music-lovers arrive!)

P.S. After writing that, I've had Clare de Lune tinkling away in my head all morning, so I suppose there must be something about it.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Jamie123

[Carborendum]

4 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

Call me a Philistine, but I've never understood what people see in this piece. To me, it sounds like the music they play in elevators. I daresay there are beauties there, as this girl points out...

There's no problem here.  It is exactly what they play in elevators.  But what you need to consider is that it was originally composed, there was no such thing as "elevator music."  Elevators were still pretty new in that era.

The fact that it was the first of its kind should say something.  Also, if you hear it in a proper theatre (see what I did there?) on an orchestra grand piano by a master pianist, it simply sounds a  WHOLE lot better than from the speakers in an elevator.

[Vort]

6 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

Call me a Philistine

Philistine.

My understanding is that French occupies roughly the same place in British society that Spanish fills in American society, that of the fallback and stereotyped foreign language. The difference is that, with literally millions of undocumented workers in the US, the Spanish language has an almost "lower-class" feel in US society, while French has always been (and, I believe, continues to be) considered a language of class and good taste in British society. I find it sad and more than a bit ironic that the general American feeling is typically assigned to patriots and conservatives: first, because I don't believe it at face value—I personally have met more who call themselves "liberal" who are openly condescending to and clearly uncomfortable with minorities in general and Hispanics specifically than I have conservatives; and second, because, in my experience, the average illegal immigrant is religious, willing to work hard, and has social values that generally resonate much more with the Right than with the Left.

[Traveler]

8 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

Call me a Philistine, but I've never understood what people see in this piece. To me, it sounds like the music they play in elevators. I daresay there are beauties there, as this girl points out...

..but they've always been inaudible to me.

(I'd better put on my flame retardant suit before any music-lovers arrive!)

P.S. After writing that, I've had Clare de Lune tinkling away in my head all morning, so I suppose there must be something about it.

You have picked one of my all-time favorite piano pieces – The other for me is Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata.  I am a fan of Classical (especially impressionism) and Jazz.  If it is possible that magic exists – I would think that the genius of classical and jazz is an entire division of magic all by itself.

As I think of such things, I remember my father that was an artist.  He taught me that there is a difference between good art and poor art and that the difference has nothing to do with whether or not you like it.  He taught me that education is knowing the difference between what genius is and what is mundane.  If one intends to invest in art (in this case - music) one ought to be educated concerning what is good music.  Then invest in good music that you enjoy.

 

The Traveler

[Jamie123]

5 hours ago, Vort said:

French has always been (and, I believe, continues to be) considered a language of class and good taste in British society.

Some would put that down to (i) the Norman Conquest, and (ii) Henry II, but this is over-simplistic as French was adopted as the language of culture by many European countries which were never militarily conquered by France. (Not that England was conquered by the French either, but by a Franco-Norse colony that was a nominal satellite of France.) I suspect that if William of Normandy had lost (and consequently Henry II had never happened), pretentious people would still be dropping French words into their speech.

[Jamie123]

3 hours ago, Traveler said:

You have picked one of my all-time favorite piano pieces – The other for me is Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata.  I am a fan of Classical (especially impressionism) and Jazz.  If it is possible that magic exists – I would think that the genius of classical and jazz is an entire division of magic all by itself.

As I think of such things, I remember my father that was an artist.  He taught me that there is a difference between good art and poor art and that the difference has nothing to do with whether or not you like it.  He taught me that education is knowing the difference between what genius is and what is mundane.  If one intends to invest in art (in this case - music) one ought to be educated concerning what is good music.  Then invest in good music that you enjoy.

 

The Traveler

I actually do like Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata. There's just something about Clare de Lune that hits me as insipid. Maybe one day I'll get over that and understand the beauty other people hear in it.

(It's still plinkety-plonking in my head. Perhaps Debussy's ghost is getting his revenge!)

But who decides what's "good" and "bad"? That varies between times and places. To give you one example, most high- brow academics in the UK turn their noses up at C.S.Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien, while American scholars hold them in high regard. There are a few exceptions like Alistair McGrath (whom my daughter is studying at the moment for her philosophy classes), but "The Lion Book of Christian Thought" (which is, I'm ashamed to admit, my main source of knowledge about the Church Fathers AND the reformers), despite having a section on Billy Graham does not mention C.S.Lewis once. Another book I once found in the library about "famous dates", in the entry on Kennedy's shooting, adds as an afternote that Aldous Huxley died the same day.  Not a word about Lewis dying on that day too. (Not that I don't like reading Huxley, but he's part of the great body of "good art", the existence of which the British intellectual snot-crowd are not ashamed to recognise.)

I'm right behind the Americans on this one!

I'm someone who enjoys the Pre-Raphaelites because of their vibrant colour and freshness. I love Holman Hunt and Maddox Brown. And I dislike "modern art" no matter how clever it supposedly is. (Like the piano nailed to the ceiling at the Tate Britain- I mean is that REALLY "good art"? I ask you!)

Edited May 2, 2023 by Jamie123
Duplicate word

[mikbone]

Forever linked.

I prefer adult alternative music, especially in the surgical suite.

[NeuroTypical]

7 hours ago, Vort said:

My understanding is that French occupies roughly the same place in British society that Spanish fills in American society, that of the fallback and stereotyped foreign language.

¡Filisteo!

[classylady]

20 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

Call me a Philistine, but I've never understood what people see in this piece. To me, it sounds like the music they play in elevators. I daresay there are beauties there, as this girl points out...

...but they've always been inaudible to me.

(I'd better put on my flame retardant suit before any music-lovers arrive!)

P.S. After writing that, I've had Clare de Lune tinkling away in my head all morning, so I suppose there must be something about it.

I’m not an accomplished pianist by any means, but I love playing the piano. I guess I would consider myself an advanced intermediate player. I had lessons as a kid and young teenager, but didn’t practice like I should have until I found music I loved. I then pretty much taught myself. For me, Clare De Lune is beautiful. I find it very calming and relaxing. It sounds deceptively simple. And, I can play it on the piano, but I found it to be a bit more difficult than what I anticipated, and never became as proficient with it as I wanted. It’s one of the songs that helped me get back into the piano after about a 14 year hiatus from the piano. (My oldest daughter played the piano beautifully, but after her death at 19 years of age, I couldn’t bring myself to touch a piano. When I could start playing again, I was playing about 2 to 3 hours a day, just trying to get my skills back. Plus it is my emotional outlet.)

I haven’t played Clare De Lune for several years. I think I’ll pull the music out and try it again.  Maybe I can improve my level of skill with it. And I’ll pull out my music for Midnight Sonata too.

[Just_A_Guy]

On 5/2/2023 at 3:26 AM, Jamie123 said:

Call me a Philistine, but I've never understood what people see in this piece. To me, it sounds like the music they play in elevators. I daresay there are beauties there, as this girl points out...

...but they've always been inaudible to me.

(I'd better put on my flame retardant suit before any music-lovers arrive!)

P.S. After writing that, I've had Clare de Lune tinkling away in my head all morning, so I suppose there must be something about it.

I totally agree, except that to me it can’t stay in my head because it has virtually no discernible melody or rhythm.  It’s not memorable.

The whole thing comes off to me like a mishmash of random phrases/combinations of chords, none of which tie into each other—like a kid with ADHD sat down to practice his piano because his parents told him to, and isn’t really practicing but is just making noise to make Mom think he’s practicing.

[Carborendum]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I totally agree, except that to me it can’t stay in my head because it has virtually no discernible melody or rhythm.  It’s not memorable.

The whole thing comes off to me like a mishmash of random phrases/combinations of chords, none of which tie into each other—like a kid with ADHD sat down to practice his piano because his parents told him to, and isn’t really practicing but is just making noise to make Mom think he’s practicing.

Gee, you say that like it's a bad thing.