Last Days' Timeline

[pam]

6 minutes ago, laronius said:

One particular sign that I've been interested in, both for what it means but also as a pretty good mile marker, is the following:

D&C 24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. 25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; 26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord

I've heard various interpretations of what the Lord means by "my house." Some say it is specifically the temples, others the Church in general and yet others to the United States or even the Promised Lands in general. I'd be curious to know other people's interpretation and what you think it means.

But regardless, it seems to be a pretty significant milestone and a lead into much of what we might refer to as the "scary" signs of the last days.

What section is this referring to?

 

[pam]

Ahhh I found it. Section 112

[pam]

This is from my favorite reference that I use regarding verse 25:

"As I read the scriptures, I often reflect upon the chilling implications of what the Apostle Peter meant when he said, 'Judgment must begin at the house of God.' (1 Pet. 4:17.) In our own day, the Lord has said, 'Vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth. ... And upon my house shall it begin.' (D&C 112:24-25; italics added.) What kind of judgments does the Lord have in mind? Why do the scriptures say that the cleansing will begin with the Church, rather than with the wicked?

"The scriptures reveal that the Lord will save his greatest wrath and condemnation for those who outwardly appear religious but who are actually full of evil within. Speaking to Jewish religious leaders, the Savior said, 'Cleanse first that which is within the cup. ... Ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.' (Matt. 23:26-27.) Similarly, the great Book of Mormon leader, Moroni, wrote, 'God has said that the inward vessel shall be cleansed first.' (Alma 60:23.)

"President Ezra Taft Benson left little room for doubt that these warnings apply to us. He declared, 'All is not well in Zion. ... We must cleanse the inner vessel, beginning first with ourselves, then with our families, and finally with the Church.' (Ensign, May 1986, p. 4)

"There are two methods of cleansing the inner vessel. The first is repentance. But if we do not repent, the Lord will invoke the second method of cleansing-from without. One way or another, the vessel will be cleansed." (Larry Tippetts, "Cleansing the Inner Vessel: The Process of Repentance," Ensign, Oct. 1992, 21)

[laronius]

31 minutes ago, pam said:

This is from my favorite reference that I use regarding verse 25:

"As I read the scriptures, I often reflect upon the chilling implications of what the Apostle Peter meant when he said, 'Judgment must begin at the house of God.' (1 Pet. 4:17.) In our own day, the Lord has said, 'Vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth. ... And upon my house shall it begin.' (D&C 112:24-25; italics added.) What kind of judgments does the Lord have in mind? Why do the scriptures say that the cleansing will begin with the Church, rather than with the wicked?

"The scriptures reveal that the Lord will save his greatest wrath and condemnation for those who outwardly appear religious but who are actually full of evil within. Speaking to Jewish religious leaders, the Savior said, 'Cleanse first that which is within the cup. ... Ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.' (Matt. 23:26-27.) Similarly, the great Book of Mormon leader, Moroni, wrote, 'God has said that the inward vessel shall be cleansed first.' (Alma 60:23.)

"President Ezra Taft Benson left little room for doubt that these warnings apply to us. He declared, 'All is not well in Zion. ... We must cleanse the inner vessel, beginning first with ourselves, then with our families, and finally with the Church.' (Ensign, May 1986, p. 4)

"There are two methods of cleansing the inner vessel. The first is repentance. But if we do not repent, the Lord will invoke the second method of cleansing-from without. One way or another, the vessel will be cleansed." (Larry Tippetts, "Cleansing the Inner Vessel: The Process of Repentance," Ensign, Oct. 1992, 21)

Sorry for the incomplete reference. 

Those are some good references. My personal opinion incorporates Pres Benson's interpretation but I think it involves others as well. Following the cleansing of the Church I think the United States is next in line. Partly because it will have swung the farthest from good to evil but also to prepare a place for literal Zion to be established. From there it will spread to the rest of the world. 

[pam]

4 minutes ago, laronius said:

Partly because it will have swung the farthest from good to evil 

We sure are seeing that right now aren't we?

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 5/30/2023 at 8:23 AM, mirkwood said:

 

I think it is the best book on the topic of the Last Days.

I would also suggest, Prophecy and Modern Times by Cleon Skousen. 

I would avoid, Prophecy: Key to the future by Duane Crowther.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

23 hours ago, Maverick said:

The only definitive timeframe that we have been given is that the Lord’s return is very near, even at the doors. 

From my studies I have concluded that there are still quite a few things that need to happen before the Lord’s return in glory in the clouds of heaven. My current belief is that something major is going to happen to really set things in motion and then most of the prophesied events that still need to happen will occur in pretty rapid succession.

The nagging question that I have is what exactly is next on the horizon for the church and the world at large? There are many events still to come, but what is next? 

Ezra Taft Benson once gave a talk entitled “Prepare for the days of Tribulation." 
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1980/10/prepare-for-the-days-of-tribulation?lang=eng

Is the tribulation of the saints as prophesied in Revelation, Daniel, Isaiah, and other places in the scriptures what comes next, or are there still other things that will precede it?

Many of the needed events could happen over a very short amount of time. But, I would remind everyone that the Lord said he would come as a thief in the night. I believe the world will be going along as it always has up until the day, or few days of the second coming. Beware of putting limits on the Lord's timetable.

[pam]

6 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

I would also suggest, Prophecy and Modern Times by Cleon Skousen. 

I would avoid, Prophecy: Key to the future by Duane Crowther.

Why should we avoid the one out of curiosity?

[pam]

5 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Many of the needed events could happen over a very short amount of time. But, I would remind everyone that the Lord said he would come as a thief in the night. I believe the world will be going along as it always has up until the day, or few days of the second coming. Beware of putting limits on the Lord's timetable.

But yet we know that there are certain things that have been prophesied to happen before He comes again.

[mirkwood]

13 minutes ago, pam said:

Why should we avoid the one out of curiosity?

Prophecy: Key to the future by Duane Crowther uses a number of spurious (questionable) sources.

Edited May 31, 2023 by mirkwood

[Maverick]

1 hour ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Many of the needed events could happen over a very short amount of time. But, I would remind everyone that the Lord said he would come as a thief in the night. I believe the world will be going along as it always has up until the day, or few days of the second coming. Beware of putting limits on the Lord's timetable.

My current conclusion is that the prophesied tribulation and destruction of the wicked prior to the Lord's return in glory are what will come as a thief in the night. And then the righteous who remain will be anxiously awaiting his return in the clouds of heaven.

[Maverick]

2 hours ago, laronius said:

One particular sign that I've been interested in, both for what it means but also as a pretty good mile marker, is the following:

D&C 24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. 25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; 26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord

I've heard various interpretations of what the Lord means by "my house." Some say it is specifically the temples, others the Church in general and yet others to the United States or even the Promised Lands in general. I'd be curious to know other people's interpretation and what you think it means.

But regardless, it seems to be a pretty significant milestone and a lead into much of what we might refer to as the "scary" signs of the last days.

In my mind there is no question that the day of burning and vengeance beginning upon the Lord's house is referring specifically to the active membership of the church. Who else could possibly be part of the Lord's house, who profess to know his name but really have not known him and are therefore blaspheming against him in the midst of his house? 

This prophecy appears to be connected to the parable of the 10 virgins, the parable of the sheep and the goats, and parable of the wheat and the tares, etc. All of which in my opinion are specifically directed at the Lord's covenant people in the last days. 

 

[JohnsonJones]

19 hours ago, Maverick said:

In my mind there is no question that the day of burning and vengeance beginning upon the Lord's house is referring specifically to the active membership of the church. Who else could possibly be part of the Lord's house, who profess to know his name but really have not known him and are therefore blaspheming against him in the midst of his house? 

This prophecy appears to be connected to the parable of the 10 virgins, the parable of the sheep and the goats, and parable of the wheat and the tares, etc. All of which in my opinion are specifically directed at the Lord's covenant people in the last days. 

 

It may or it may not.  There are a lot of inactives and there a lot of others who claim to be LDS do not practice the beliefs taught in the Church itself.  I think a minority of the membership would be left if only the active were spared.

Overall, I do not know. 

It could be though, that in the last days there will be a war against the Saints.  The Saints will be terribly outnumbered.  It is possible that there will be many Saints slain during this...and that could be from the active Saints who go to Church regularly.  If the Book of Mormon is anything to rely on (and I feel it is) then there will be war made on the Saints.  Even apostles might be killed (such as the one that Nephi raised).  From the sounds of it, the persecution that Nephi and the Saints endured were quite extensive, even from the brief mentions that indicate it in 3rd Nephi. 

I do not know how things will happen.  I feel that the Book of Mormon is a guide for US in these days and is a direct type and shadow of what will happen before, during, and after the second coming.

[Maverick]

9 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

It may or it may not.  There are a lot of inactives and there a lot of others who claim to be LDS do not practice the beliefs taught in the Church itself.  I think a minority of the membership would be left if only the active were spared.

My suspicion is that only a small minority of the membership will be spared. A believe that those who profess to know the Lord, but really don't and are therefore blaspheming him in the midst of his house are predominantly active members. Many active members are mostly just going through the motions and aren't very committed to the gospel at all. I would say that only a minority of the active members truly know the Lord. That's just my opinion from what I have observed. 

As far as the Lord's house in D&C 112 referring to the church membership, here are a few scriptures which I believe show this to be the case:

22 Therefore let my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., say unto the strength of my house, my young men and the middle aged—Gather yourselves together unto the land of Zion, upon the land which I have bought with money that has been consecrated unto me.

30 It is my will that my servant Parley P. Pratt and my servant Lyman Wight should not return to the land of their brethren, until they have obtained companies to go up unto the land of Zion, by tens, or by twenties, or by fifties, or by an hundred, until they have obtained to the number of five hundred of the strength of my house.

34 But verily I say unto you, a commandment I give unto you, that ye shall not go up unto the land of Zion until you have obtained a hundred of the strength of my house, to go up with you unto the land of Zion.

D&C 103:22, 30, 34

16 Behold, I have commanded my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., to say unto the strength of my house, even my warriors, my young men, and middle-aged, to gather together for the redemption of my people, and throw down the towers of mine enemies, and scatter their watchmen;

27 And I will soften the hearts of the people, as I did the heart of Pharaoh, from time to time, until my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and mine elders, whom I have appointed, shall have time to gather up the strength of my house,

D&C 105:16, 27

10 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

It could be though, that in the last days there will be a war against the Saints.  The Saints will be terribly outnumbered.  It is possible that there will be many Saints slain during this...and that could be from the active Saints who go to Church regularly.  If the Book of Mormon is anything to rely on (and I feel it is) then there will be war made on the Saints.  Even apostles might be killed (such as the one that Nephi raised).  From the sounds of it, the persecution that Nephi and the Saints endured were quite extensive, even from the brief mentions that indicate it in 3rd Nephi.

There's no doubt in my mind that there will be a war against the Saints (active membership) in the last days. This is spoken of in Daniel, Revelation, and other places in the scriptures. See for example:

19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

JST Daniel 7:23-25

1 And I saw another sign in the likeness of the kingdoms of the earth, a beast rise up out of the sea and stood upon the sand of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

JST Revelation 13:1-2, 6-7

10 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I do not know how things will happen.  I feel that the Book of Mormon is a guide for US in these days and is a direct type and shadow of what will happen before, during, and after the second coming.

Of course I don't know how things will happen either. The thought has also occurred to me that the events preceding and following the coming of the Savior to the ancient inhabitants of America, as recorded in the Book of Mormon, could be a type and shadow of the events associated with the Second Coming, but I believe better types are found in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the 12 minor prophets. 

If the destruction in 3 Nephi is a type for the destruction in the last days, then that gives me hope that many will be spared for being "more righteous" than the truly wicked. 

[laronius]

The majority of the righteous casualties in 3 Nephi were spiritual in nature, not physical. A dead saint is a saved saint. That doesn't mean some righteous won't die but Satan knows that only puts them beyond his reach. It's the war against the souls of men that we should worry about.

In the parable of the 10 virgins, half were prepared and half weren't. If we use that as any kind of indicator, which I kind of lean towards, then that may give us an idea of what to expect. Also, when the call came that the bridegroom was coming all of the virgins were asleep. I don't think we can use any current measurements of faithfulness to know who will and who won't be ready. There's is yet much preparedness the Lord has in store for us.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 5/31/2023 at 9:24 AM, pam said:

Why should we avoid the one out of curiosity?

He quotes a lot of spurious revelations such as the white horse prophecy, something that has been debunked on many occasions by the leadership of the church.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 5/31/2023 at 10:34 AM, Maverick said:

My current conclusion is that the prophesied tribulation and destruction of the wicked prior to the Lord's return in glory are what will come as a thief in the night. And then the righteous who remain will be anxiously awaiting his return in the clouds of heaven.

You may be right. No warning for the wicked.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 6/1/2023 at 6:20 AM, JohnsonJones said:

It may or it may not.  There are a lot of inactives and there a lot of others who claim to be LDS do not practice the beliefs taught in the Church itself.  I think a minority of the membership would be left if only the active were spared.

Overall, I do not know. 

It could be though, that in the last days there will be a war against the Saints.  The Saints will be terribly outnumbered.  It is possible that there will be many Saints slain during this...and that could be from the active Saints who go to Church regularly.  If the Book of Mormon is anything to rely on (and I feel it is) then there will be war made on the Saints.  Even apostles might be killed (such as the one that Nephi raised).  From the sounds of it, the persecution that Nephi and the Saints endured were quite extensive, even from the brief mentions that indicate it in 3rd Nephi. 

I do not know how things will happen.  I feel that the Book of Mormon is a guide for US in these days and is a direct type and shadow of what will happen before, during, and after the second coming.

I probably has more to do with the parable of the reaping. The wicked will be gathered and burned. I think most people have it backward when it says "Once shall be taken and the other left" the wicked will be the ones taken.

Quote

"41 But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the flood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;

43 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the last days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left;

45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;

46 And what I say unto one, I say unto all men; watch, therefore, for you know not at what hour your Lord doth come." -JS Matt 1

 

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

18 hours ago, Maverick said:

My suspicion is that only a small minority of the membership will be spared. A believe that those who profess to know the Lord, but really don't and are therefore blaspheming him in the midst of his house are predominantly active members. Many active members are mostly just going through the motions and aren't very committed to the gospel at all. I would say that only a minority of the active members truly know the Lord. That's just my opinion from what I have observed. 

As far as the Lord's house in D&C 112 referring to the church membership, here are a few scriptures which I believe show this to be the case:

22 Therefore let my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., say unto the strength of my house, my young men and the middle aged—Gather yourselves together unto the land of Zion, upon the land which I have bought with money that has been consecrated unto me.

30 It is my will that my servant Parley P. Pratt and my servant Lyman Wight should not return to the land of their brethren, until they have obtained companies to go up unto the land of Zion, by tens, or by twenties, or by fifties, or by an hundred, until they have obtained to the number of five hundred of the strength of my house.

34 But verily I say unto you, a commandment I give unto you, that ye shall not go up unto the land of Zion until you have obtained a hundred of the strength of my house, to go up with you unto the land of Zion.

D&C 103:22, 30, 34

16 Behold, I have commanded my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., to say unto the strength of my house, even my warriors, my young men, and middle-aged, to gather together for the redemption of my people, and throw down the towers of mine enemies, and scatter their watchmen;

27 And I will soften the hearts of the people, as I did the heart of Pharaoh, from time to time, until my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and mine elders, whom I have appointed, shall have time to gather up the strength of my house,

D&C 105:16, 27

There's no doubt in my mind that there will be a war against the Saints (active membership) in the last days. This is spoken of in Daniel, Revelation, and other places in the scriptures. See for example:

19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

JST Daniel 7:23-25

1 And I saw another sign in the likeness of the kingdoms of the earth, a beast rise up out of the sea and stood upon the sand of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

JST Revelation 13:1-2, 6-7

Of course I don't know how things will happen either. The thought has also occurred to me that the events preceding and following the coming of the Savior to the ancient inhabitants of America, as recorded in the Book of Mormon, could be a type and shadow of the events associated with the Second Coming, but I believe better types are found in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the 12 minor prophets. 

If the destruction in 3 Nephi is a type for the destruction in the last days, then that gives me hope that many will be spared for being "more righteous" than the truly wicked. 

We can gain comfort from knowing that if we are living the gospel honorably, then the Lord will protect us until our time has come. We need not fear, but trust in the Lord's timetable.

[Maverick]

On 6/1/2023 at 5:15 PM, laronius said:

The majority of the righteous casualties in 3 Nephi were spiritual in nature, not physical. A dead saint is a saved saint. That doesn't mean some righteous won't die but Satan knows that only puts them beyond his reach. It's the war against the souls of men that we should worry about.

Obviously if righteous individuals are killed by the wicked in the last days or allowed to die in other ways by God, they will of course not lose their eternal reward. 

There's an interesting prophecy in JST Revelation 20:4:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This would suggest that there will be those in the last days who are at least living at a terrestrial level who will be put to death for refusing to deny Christ and worship the beast during the time that he conquers the whole world and overcomes the saints. 

On 6/1/2023 at 5:15 PM, laronius said:

In the parable of the 10 virgins, half were prepared and half weren't. If we use that as any kind of indicator, which I kind of lean towards, then that may give us an idea of what to expect. 

I agree that the parable of the 10 virgins gives us an idea of how things will play out. So this begs a few questions:

Who do the 10 virgins represent? Is it the entire church membership, the active membership, those members who have temple recommends and are in good standing in the church, or somebody else?

I believe that it refers to those members of the church who have temple recommends and are in good standing in the church.

Who else can truly be considered a virgin, who at least outwardly appears to be pure and holy and can legitimately be anticipating becoming the bride of Christ when he comes? I don't believe that the inactive, less active, and those who don't even meet the minimum standards of worthiness would be referred to as virgins who are awaiting the coming of the bridegroom by Christ.

If this is correct and it turns out to be roughly a 50/50 split between the wise and foolish virgins, then less than half of the active church membership will make the cut and be invited to the marriage feast, which in turn is only a small percentage of the overall membership. 

On 6/1/2023 at 5:15 PM, laronius said:

Also, when the call came that the bridegroom was coming all of the virgins were asleep. I don't think we can use any current measurements of faithfulness to know who will and who won't be ready.

I think the question is also worth asking, what does it mean that they are asleep? Does this mean that they aren't paying complete attention and are surprised by the Lord's coming? I don't think it means that we can't look at the faithfulness or lack thereof among the active church membership as an indicator of will or won't be ready. But I agree that we need to be very careful in how we judge others. People often put up a façade of righteous who really aren't and there are also those who may be rough around the edges or overlooked for whatever reason who are truly the salt of the earth. 

On 6/1/2023 at 5:15 PM, laronius said:

There's is yet much preparedness the Lord has in store for us.

I think this remains to be seen. I don't personally feel comfortable counting on this. 

[Maverick]

7 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

We can gain comfort from knowing that if we are living the gospel honorably, then the Lord will protect us until our time has come. We need not fear, but trust in the Lord's timetable.

I agree.

Though I do wonder to what extent physical preparedness will be a factor in addition to spiritual preparedness. 

[Maverick]

7 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

The wicked will be gathered and burned. I think most people have it backward when it says "Once shall be taken and the other left" the wicked will be the ones taken.

For a long time I understood this prophecy the way that you do, but after further study I concluded that I had it wrong. I believe that the verses you quoted are referring to the righteous being gathered out before the great tribulation and destruction of the wicked commences. 

If we look at the same prophecy you quoted from JS-Matthew (JST Matthew 24) from Luke 17, we get a clearer picture:

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, the disciple who shall be on the housetop and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away; and he who is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot’s wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
35 Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord, shall they be taken?
37 And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is gathered, or in other words, whithersoever the saints are gathered, thither will the eagles be gathered together, or thither will the remainder be gathered together.
38 This he spake, signifying the gathering of his saints, and of angels descending and gathering the remainder unto them, the one from the bed, the other from the grinding, and the other from the field, whithersoever he listeth.

JST Luke 17:26-38

My belief is that this prophecy refers to a righteous remnant of the Latter-day Saints being gathered out to build the New Jerusalem, while the wicked are left to endure the tribulation and destruction during the reign of the great beast. 

A second witness is how the Joseph Smith Translation of the parable of the wheat and the tares switches the order of events from the tares first being bound and burned and then the wheat being taken into the barn to the wheat first being taken into the barn and then the tares are bound in bundles and burned. 

Matthew 13:30

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Compare JST Matthew 13:29

29 Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the time of harvest, I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the wheat into my barn; and the tares are bound in bundles to be burned.

[laronius]

13 hours ago, Maverick said:

Obviously if righteous individuals are killed by the wicked in the last days or allowed to die in other ways by God, they will of course not lose their eternal reward. 

There's an interesting prophecy in JST Revelation 20:4:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This would suggest that there will be those in the last days who are at least living at a terrestrial level who will be put to death for refusing to deny Christ and worship the beast during the time that he conquers the whole world and overcomes the saints. 

I agree that the parable of the 10 virgins gives us an idea of how things will play out. So this begs a few questions:

Who do the 10 virgins represent? Is it the entire church membership, the active membership, those members who have temple recommends and are in good standing in the church, or somebody else?

I believe that it refers to those members of the church who have temple recommends and are in good standing in the church.

Who else can truly be considered a virgin, who at least outwardly appears to be pure and holy and can legitimately be anticipating becoming the bride of Christ when he comes? I don't believe that the inactive, less active, and those who don't even meet the minimum standards of worthiness would be referred to as virgins who are awaiting the coming of the bridegroom by Christ.

If this is correct and it turns out to be roughly a 50/50 split between the wise and foolish virgins, then less than half of the active church membership will make the cut and be invited to the marriage feast, which in turn is only a small percentage of the overall membership. 

I think the question is also worth asking, what does it mean that they are asleep? Does this mean that they aren't paying complete attention and are surprised by the Lord's coming? I don't think it means that we can't look at the faithfulness or lack thereof among the active church membership as an indicator of will or won't be ready. But I agree that we need to be very careful in how we judge others. People often put up a façade of righteous who really aren't and there are also those who may be rough around the edges or overlooked for whatever reason who are truly the salt of the earth. 

I think this remains to be seen. I don't personally feel comfortable counting on this. 

I agree that there will be those who put their life on the line for standing as a witness of Christ. That has always been the case. My point was simply we don't know how prevalent that will be in the future. Will it happen? Yes. To what degree? Not sure.

As far who the 10 virgins represent, the only official definition I've seen is that they are members of the Church. I don't know that general authorities have ever been more specific than that, but it's possible. An interesting point though to consider is which members of the Church is it talking about in terms of timing. The parable begins with the warning that the bridegroom was coming. So does this parable only deal with those who are alive at the second coming or is it all of those who are alive beginning when the warning is given? And when did/will that start? It could be argued that the 10 virgins represent all members of the Church since the beginning of the restoration. If that is the case then almost all members have been in good standing at some point and could potentially meet your definition of who is a "virgin." 

My point about how more preparation is coming was mainly about the refiner's fire the last days will surely be for members of the Church. The Lord is clear that He wants a people prepared to meet Him when He comes and part of the purpose of the trials preceding His coming is for that very purpose. It will weed out some but it will also "make fit" some who have yet to fully commit, which to one degree or another accounts for most of us. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by laronius

[Maverick]

4 hours ago, laronius said:

As far who the 10 virgins represent, the only official definition I've seen is that they are members of the Church. I don't know that general authorities have ever been more specific than that, but it's possible. An interesting point though to consider is which members of the Church is it talking about in terms of timing. The parable begins with the warning that the bridegroom was coming. So does this parable only deal with those who are alive at the second coming or is it all of those who are alive beginning when the warning is given? And when did/will that start? It could be argued that the 10 virgins represent all members of the Church since the beginning of the restoration. If that is the case then almost all members have been in good standing at some point and could potentially meet your definition of who is a "virgin." 

You raise an interesting question. I suppose there could be a secondary interpretation to this parable in which all members who have ever been on the rolls of the church since 1830, could be compared to the virgins, but I think it's pretty clear that the parable is specifically speaking about the time of the last days marriage feast when Christ comes to make the faithful saints (wise virgins) his bride. The parable actually doesn't begin with warning that the bridegroom is coming. It begins by stating what the parable is being compared to.

1 And then, at that day before the Son of Man comes, the kingdom of heaven shall be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

And then later, while all 10 virgins are asleep, there is a cry that goes out that the bridegroom is literally coming, at which point the time to prepare is up. I don't think that those members who aren't even meeting the minimum standard of worthiness (at least outwardly) are among the 10 virgins mentioned when the parable is literally fulfilled. Nor do I think any members who have died in the past are included at that time either. I believe it's just referring to those members who are alive and can reasonably be expecting to be worthy to become the bride of Christ when he returns. 

4 hours ago, laronius said:

My point about how more preparation is coming was mainly about the refiner's fire the last days will surely be for members of the Church. The Lord is clear that He wants a people prepared to meet Him when He comes and part of the purpose of the trials preceding His coming is for that very purpose. It will weed out some but it will also "make fit" some who have yet to fully commit, which to one degree or another accounts for most of us. 

It is my belief that there will be those among the foolish virgins who will have to endure the reign of the great beast who will be refined by the experience and will ultimately be permitted to join the wise virgins during the millennium. I believe that one such example is those who are beheaded for refusing to deny Christ and worship the beast mentioned in Revelation 20:4. I also believe that others will be refined by the experience without having to lay down their lives. It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out.  

[askandanswer]

I've always been a little puzzled about the fact that the Nephites, but not the Jews, were given a definite time, on several occasions, about when Christ would come, but we in the latter-days are given less specific possibilities.