CrimsonKairos Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Okay, say I have cancer and it has spread to the lymph nodes. My doctor says I should do radiation and chemo and I have about a 70% chance to live. So I pray about it, and my answer is "I don't need those things to survive". This whole hypothetical proceeds on the assumption that everyone who has cancer should get better.It may not be God's will for you to recover. That may be why you might get the "forget chemo and all that jazz" answer to prayer. I know we're talking hypotheticals, but there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WANDERER Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 · Hidden Hidden I drink mint and ginger tea... for stomach upsets. A handful of fresh mint leaves steeped in water or some grated ginger is just as effective without the teabag component...but then you are launching into hot drinks and the whole semantics of what tea is (I make it with a teapot, I use a strainer and I drink it out of a teacup, not at boiling...I get odd looks when I mix half water from the tap a habit I picked up for safety with children and have grown to like and *yay* it's not that odd after all LOL). I'd probably go the idea that it isn't 'tea' otherwise all cooking in water would become complicated. Edit: realised that it might come under 'herbal infusion'... Link to comment
Aphrodite Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 I agree with 'Bill'. The WOW is a personal thing and should be interpreted by the individual. If ou feel its ok to drink coffee-go ahead. It is personal feeling and choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_jason Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 I agree with 'Bill'. The WOW is a personal thing and should be interpreted by the individual. If ou feel its ok to drink coffee-go ahead. It is personal feeling and choice.Uh, wrong. Things that "feel good" are rarely good. The prophets have repeatedly admonished the obedience to the Word of Wisdom. It is not merely a suggestion, but a commandment. A person cannot worthily hold a temple recommend if they do not adhere to this law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphrodite Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Things that "feel good" are rarely good. Hmm so in that case only things that feel bad are right. The spirit is supposed to feel good. So the spirit's not good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_jason Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Hmm so in that case only things that feel bad are right. The spirit is supposed to feel good. So the spirit's not good?Did I say that? That's not even close to what I said. Go back and read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Aphrodite, if your Bishop knows you drink coffee, you cannot go to the temple. The WOW is explicit about a few substances we are to avoid. The rest (caffeine, etc.) is up to our judgment and our personal body's ability to handle substances like caffeine. The principle is don't become addicted to a substance and don't take anything into your body that interferes with your spiritual sensitivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Um, whether the Bishop knows or not Father knows. You can easily lie to the Bishop and then to the Stake Presidency, but ultimately there is no way to lie to Father. Example: A person lies to their Bishop and Stake President about drinking frappachino's- 6 to 8, 6 oz. bottles a day!. This person gets their temple recommend. This goes on for years and years. There is a lot of vicarious work that they have done, unworthily. Unworthily meaning they are unworthy, not the work. At the end of the day - Father's Day that is - This person will stand at judgment and all the people that this person did vicarious work for will be standing there too as witness's. All the baptisms, endowments, sealings, etc. will still be valid. Christ is a just God- He will not punish all of those souls because this one person lied every time they went before their Bishop and Stake Presidency to get their Temple Recommend renewed. But this one person who lied, that person will be judged accordingly. Can't say what will happen, but I know it is going to be just. I sure don't want to be standing in front of Christ and admit that I have been lying to Father every time I went to get my Temple Recommend renewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Yes, Iggy, I agree. It just sounded like Aphrodite thought that coffee wasn't explicitly forbidden in our current practice of the WoW, and I wanted to make sure she knew the standard involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Yes, Iggy, I agree.It just sounded like Aphrodite thought that coffee wasn't explicitly forbidden in our current practice of the WoW, and I wanted to make sure she knew the standard involved.We agree:eek: WOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lds_sister2 Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 I didn't read all of the posts...so it might be answered like this already...but Ill just give the answer anyway... The WoW specifically says that we are not to drink coffee and teas....and the teas they mean are the unnatural/nonherbal teas. Green tea is NOT natural...I know this for a fact because I was very into Wicca for a number of years before getting baptized. I know my teas. Whatever you are drinking the green tea for, I can guarantee you that there is something else you can drink, a herbal tea, that would be better for you. Green tea is bad for your digestive system...which is why it is part of the WoW. Do some research of your own into what herbs would be good for your condition...I drink and eat certain herbal remedies because I have hyperthyroidism and certain herbs help keep my thyroid levels undercontrol... Even go into the Witchcraft section of the bookstore and find a herbal remedies book...they are the best ones to find this information...I'm not saying look into spell books and such...there are a number of great books that only talk about herbal remedies...no magic stuff in there what so ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawman Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I disagree with the green tea is against the word of wisdom theory. It is black tea, hot or cold, that's it. Anything beyond black tea is just speculation, and you should use your judgment. Who knows why black tea is banned? Don't know, but it could be fermentation. The use of grains is encouraged, unless fermented and turned into alcohol. Yes, green tea is the leaves of the tea plant, but every other herbal tea that I know of is also made of the leaves of the plant. Besides, when has anything that is good for you been restricted? You want to avoid harmful substances, stay away from anything made by Hostess. So I say, go ahead and drink your green tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthearmsofsleep Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I thought I remembered one of the general authorities saying that green tea was on that list as well... maybe it was just my stake president, I'm not sure. I just remember them announcing it at a conference. My opinion is just to avoid it anyway... it's better to not risk losing touch with the spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Ogre Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 This whole hypothetical proceeds on the assumption that everyone who has cancer should get better.It may not be God's will for you to recover. That may be why you might get the "forget chemo and all that jazz" answer to prayer. I know we're talking hypotheticals, but there you go.CK: everyone in chemo gets that answer. Who wants to go through that stuff, but if your doctor says to get on with it, do what he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Ogre Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 There was an important part of this thread that went missing: what happens to a woman who is married in the temple and then goes though a civil divorce? Can the woman remarry? The answer is yes, but it takes a bit of work. The bishopric is the place to start and from there being sincere about the second marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JcDean78 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Red Wine was considered good for your heart if drank in moderation. Now we have studies that say Red Wine does not help and can in fact hurt. Which do we believe? Our knowledge of Medicine changes so often of whats good and bad for us that its hard to keep up. Through all of it the Gospel has been rock steady for us with the message of Heavenly Father. Also I always hear and see a lot of posts saying "go to your bishop" when any issue comes up but really I personally disagree with that unless it is something that requires official paper work, confessions, or ordanances. The Temple divorce would be a great example. I believe when we rely too much on a Bishop to guide us, that we take away a big part of why we are given the Holy Ghost and our opportunity to overcome our challenges. We essentually pass off the process to somebody else who is not as connected to what we are dealing with as we are. The Bishop is not the Prophet. Now I am not saying that people should not go to the Bishop when they need help but rather that they should not lean on them for ALL their problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpacktr Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I disagree with the green tea is against the word of wisdom theory. It is black tea, hot or cold, that's it. Anything beyond black tea is just speculation, and you should use your judgment. Who knows why black tea is banned? Don't know, but it could be fermentation. The use of grains is encouraged, unless fermented and turned into alcohol. Yes, green tea is the leaves of the tea plant, but every other herbal tea that I know of is also made of the leaves of the plant. Besides, when has anything that is good for you been restricted? You want to avoid harmful substances, stay away from anything made by Hostess.So I say, go ahead and drink your green tea.Sorry, but you are way off for even stating that. I lived in Japan for many years. In Japanese, black tea or any of the others 'leaf teas' is 'kocha'. Green tea is 'ocha'. During the TR interview, you are specifically asked if you drink ocha or kocha. Green tea is forbidden if you want to have a TR. When I taught the WoW as a missionary, we specifically taught that you couldn't use tobacco, coffee, or ocha/kocha. Part of the lesson plan.So quit speculating or thinking that somehow you are getting thru a loophole. It is verboten and that is that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelswyth Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 There's been a lot of replies saying that the WoW specifically forbids tea and coffee. Um, no it doesn't. It generally forbids "hot drinks". The interpretation of those hot drinks as being tea and coffee is later guidance provided by leaders of the Church. Just wanted to clarify that.Black tea and green tea are from the exact same plant. They are both real tea, as is white tea, which is is made from the youngest leaves. Any other "tea" is not actually tea, but a herbal tisane. If you are drinking green tea for the health benefits it can provide, I suggest looking into "red tea", otherwise known as rooibos or redbush tea. It is a tisane made from a plant native to parts of Africa, does not contain any caffeine, is low in the tannins that make coffee and tea bitter, and contains high levels of antioxidants comparable to the levels in green tea. There is also honeybush tea, which is very similar to rooibos but slightly sweeter, contains less than 0.01% caffeine, and also contains high levels of flavones and isoflavones (antioxidants). These two teas can provide the same benefits as green tea, without the dubious standing vis-a-vis the WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Ogre Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Personally, I see most of this discussion as trying to find out how many angels waltz on pinheads and if it really is the waltz and not really the fox-trot, the polka, or crumping. Smoking pot and shooting up are against the WoW, but neither are mentioned in the scripture. Pull out your personal Liahona and move-on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpacktr Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Personally, I see most of this discussion as trying to find out how many angels waltz on pinheads and if it really is the waltz and not really the fox-trot, the polka, or crumping.Smoking pot and shooting up are against the WoW, but neither are mentioned in the scripture. Pull out your personal Liahona and move-on.Um, no, church leaders have added drugs as part of the WoW. When someone tries to tell others that something is right when in fact it is wrong then it needs to be addressed and correct doctrine stated. As I said long ago: if you want to drink green tea, go for it. But it is against the WoW. Period. And there are consequences to not following that law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Ogre Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Um, no, church leaders have added drugs as part of the WoW. When someone tries to tell others that something is right when in fact it is wrong then it needs to be addressed and correct doctrine stated. As I said long ago: if you want to drink green tea, go for it. But it is against the WoW. Period. And there are consequences to not following that law.So, you instead think it is ballet they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowTheWhisp Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 So how about Dr. Pepper? Some people say it is forbidden because it contains caffeine but it isn't hot and it isn't alcohol. I drink Barleycup or Caro, they are served at church socials and both of those are hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelswyth Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 The thing with the Word of Wisdom is, if God meant "tea and coffee", He could have said that. If He meant drinks containing caffeine, He could have said that. He could have been as specific as He wanted to be. But what he said was, no hot drinks. Iced tea has been around since the early 1800s, before the WoW revelation was received by Joseph Smith, yet God did not forbid it; only "hot drinks". I think God said what He meant to say. So I don't drink hot beverages. In winter I will occasionally have what I call "lukewarm chocolate" instead of hot chocolate. :) For me, the tea and coffee issue is moot, because I react badly to caffeine whether hot or cold. So that's not anything I have to be concerned about. But I don't drink hot herbal tea, either. I prepare it and then drink it at room temperature or iced. I take God's word at face value and trust that He said what He meant and meant what He said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Sometimes if my memory serves me right, there was a report about the cause and effects of ingesting hot drinks [liquids]. The report goes on to talk about the toxicity in both plants. Oh well.... LATE EDIT: Improvement Era 1903 Improvement Era 1917 Word and Wisdom: A Modern Interruption [Hot Drinks], Elder John A. Widtsoe Joseph Smith, Seasons and Time 3:799-801 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts