Word Of Wisdom

[crytsprospect]

It always seems funny to me when members get caught up in one little part of the Word Of Wisdom which is so much more. I have some questions,

?

1. How many eat meat sparingly that includes fowl, fish and poultry.?

2. Do you use every herb every fruit with prudence?

3. What happened to " To be sent as greeting: not by comandment or constraint, but by revelation" D&C 89:2

The word of wisdom is a wonderful guideline and we can all pick it apart but studies have shown the wisdom for not doing these things . You can pick apart the verbage but I think it is ,besides the obvious, up to us to realize the right choices. There is alot of conflict if you want to make it but for me it is very simple. I don't think the wow has to add illegal drugs etc for us to know they are not ment to be used. The WOW to me says to not do anything in excess. Anything that alters my perception, reasoning or ability to function shouldn't be used. Ok sayng that I take pain pills for a Chronic Pain situation , even this I watch and use with care knowing if I wasn't vigilant I might overuse or abuse without meaning to.

Should Father in Heaven said," Don't take anything into your bodies that could harm your ability to grow both mentally and phisically to be all you can be and you will be blessed"

I agree with the anything made by Hostess comment only by experience and overindulgence lol

Oh yes and don't forget ' Judge not least ye be judged ' something we humans are guilty of often

[sixpacktr]

So, you instead think it is ballet they are doing.

That's right, I'm just being silly by stating what church doctine is.

Go ahead, ridicule that which is correct since you obviously don't have the maturity to answer the statement in a constructive manner.

And 'hot drinks' was interpreted to mean coffee and tea. Again, we believe in continuous revelation, here a little and there a little. The WoW has since become doctrine and a requirement for temple attendance.

[the Ogre]

That's right, I'm just being silly by stating what church doctine is.

Go ahead, ridicule that which is correct since you obviously don't have the maturity to answer the statement in a constructive manner.

And 'hot drinks' was interpreted to mean coffee and tea. Again, we believe in continuous revelation, here a little and there a little. The WoW has since become doctrine and a requirement for temple attendance.

Whatever, like I was the first one being rude advising people to break commandments: "go ahead and smoke that dope, even if its not in the original text you'll be still be breaking it."

Everyone knows the tea and coffee bit (who really likes coffee anyway--it smells like a line of 20+ buttcracks at a truckstop looks).

No one is stupid here, what I'm trying to state is that what you've said is so well known it is almost trivial (even the guys I knew in the army who thought we were Amish knew we didn't drink tea, coffee, or booze and that pot, heroine, crack, meth, LSD, and green jello are generally off limits). If you, as a far more wise and intelligent member of this board, are going to add something, please add something new without being rude.

[Hemidakota]

Perhaps Elder McConkie should of applied it. [Jester] I do miss that Elder....:) I am with Bruce on this one...I do eat chicken, cow, pig, fish, and so forth.

[Hemidakota]

That's right, I'm just being silly by stating what church doctine is.

Go ahead, ridicule that which is correct since you obviously don't have the maturity to answer the statement in a constructive manner.

And 'hot drinks' was interpreted to mean coffee and tea. Again, we believe in continuous revelation, here a little and there a little. The WoW has since become doctrine and a requirement for temple attendance.

You are correct. It was the prophet who later remarked the hot drinks were indeed Coffee and Tea.

[Moksha]

Questions

Hey does any one know about the status of Coffee Nips candy? Sitting in the bowl at my friend's desk, they look like they were probably valient in the preexistance, but how can I be sure?

Also, what about mocha or expresso ice cream?

[sixpacktr]

Whatever, like I was the first one being rude advising people to break commandments: "go ahead and smoke that dope, even if its not in the original text you'll be still be breaking it."

Everyone knows the tea and coffee bit (who really likes coffee anyway--it smells like a line of 20+ buttcracks at a truckstop looks).

No one is stupid here, what I'm trying to state is that what you've said is so well known it is almost trivial (even the guys I knew in the army who thought we were Amish knew we didn't drink tea, coffee, or booze and that pot, heroine, crack, meth, LSD, and green jello are generally off limits). If you, as a far more wise and intelligent member of this board, are going to add something, please add something new without being rude.

:confused:what are you prattling on about? I didn't advocate anyone breaking the commandments, and even the example you use states go ahead, but there are consequences. So what is your point? That I (or someone else, I can't find that reference) told someone to break the WoW since it didn't specifically state it in scripture, or that I am too black and white?

And who was rude? You're the one that stated that I was advocating ballet over the waltz, when I stated that there really is no grey in the WoW.

And I know that most are not stupid here. But I also know that there are many that try to rationalize any little thing, thinking that somehow they are smarter than the rest because they 'understand' more. And there are LOTS of new members that come to a board like this to learn more, and instead find a lot of people that are constantly looking for ways to skirt that which is correct. Again, we all have our agency, but if someone states out and out false doctrine, and I am aware of what is right (as in this case, can we or can we not drink green tea and go to the temple?) then I will state it.

Sorry if this offends you. Well, not really...

[Hemidakota]

Questions

Hey does any one know about the status of Coffee Nips candy? Sitting in the bowl at my friend's desk, they look like they were probably valiant in the preexistence, but how can I be sure?

Also, what about mocha or expresso ice cream?

Follow the guidance or prompting of the spirit. Unless you are of the age of eight years old.

[prisonchaplain]

Everyone knows the tea and coffee bit (who really likes coffee anyway--it smells like a line of 20+ buttcracks at a truckstop looks).

Do not underestimate how much pleasure some take in prohibited acts/consumables--especially adult converts/investigators etc. Unless you've grown up being taught that consuming coffee is a violation of church doctrine, somewhere in the 12-20 range most discover this beverage and take a great liking to it. And, for such folk, telling them that part of conversion means giving up the delicious brew is yet one more reason to hesitate and say, "Did Joseph really hear from God?"

I say this not to encourage disobedience, but to recommend understanding for those who really really like the stuff.

[sixpacktr]

Do not underestimate how much pleasure some take in prohibited acts/consumables--especially adult converts/investigators etc. Unless you've grown up being taught that consuming coffee is a violation of church doctrine, somewhere in the 12-20 range most discover this beverage and take a great liking to it. And, for such folk, telling them that part of conversion means giving up the delicious brew is yet one more reason to hesitate and say, "Did Joseph really hear from God?"

I say this not to encourage disobedience, but to recommend understanding for those who really really like the stuff.

I personally wish there was candle or potpouri that was called 'brewing coffee'. I absolutely love the smell of fresh brewed coffee. The taste, though...ugh. I only had it once, when I was in Japan. When I was a greenie, and couldn't read thing so well yet, and had a companion that was mean to his greenie. Let's just say I thought I'd bought chocolate milk (the paper container was dark, and I did see 'milk' on it, so...) I thought I was going to have some chocolate milk, opened the container and proceeded to take a huge gulp, and immediately spit it out (thank goodness we were outside!). And Jelly Belly makes coffee flavored jelly beans. We buy the belly flops, which are a mixture of all their flavors that aren't good enough for sale, and they have mocha and coffee flavors mixed in. Sometimes I bite into one...ugh.

Now if they had iced tea flavored jelly beans, I'd be in heaven...but I'll settle for their juicy pear and buttered popcorn ones in the meantime...

[Aelswyth]

It always seems funny to me when members get caught up in one little part of the Word Of Wisdom which is so much more. I have some questions,

?

1. How many eat meat sparingly that includes fowl, fish and poultry.?

2. Do you use every herb every fruit with prudence?

I eat flesh foods sparingly, and mostly in winter when there aren't as many fresh veggies available locally. (I try to eat locally grown because it's better for the local economy and the environment.) In summer, we eat almost vegetarian because of the abundance of fresh produce available.

I certainly hope that I use the herbs, fruits and other plant foods I consume with prudence. I have a basic knowledge of herbology, including which herbs to avoid during pregnancy because they can act as abortifacients if consumed too often or by a susceptible woman. I have a basic understanding of which plant foods are best consumed raw and which are best cooked, including which greens can rob your body of essential minerals if eaten uncooked (spinach) and which plants contain toxins that need to be neutralized before consumption. I try to eat a good variety of fruits and veggies, to make sure I am getting the whole range of nutrients my body needs, and I always buy organic so that I am getting the most out of the produce and supporting sustainable agriculture. I also consume almost exclusively whole grains, except for the occasional meal with white rice (such as when we have sushi or eat at a Thai restaurant). I hope this constitutes "prudence" in God's eyes. :)

[crytsprospect]

Thats great . I just think people forget the whole and concentrate on coffee and tea and its so much more.

My mother gave me an old pinkish tupperware steamer and we have just had a great time steaming vegies . Right now asparagus is the one. We eat almost no processed foods, pizza is probably our downfall.

"I have a basic understanding of which plant foods are best consumed raw and which are best cooked, including which greens can rob your body of essential minerals if eaten uncooked (spinach) and which plants contain toxins that need to be neutralized before consumption."

??? I juice carrots apple and spinach with a clove of garlic is that wrong?

[Aelswyth]

Thats great . I just think people forget the whole and concentrate on coffee and tea and its so much more.

My mother gave me an old pinkish tupperware steamer and we have just had a great time steaming vegies . Right now asparagus is the one. We eat almost no processed foods, pizza is probably our downfall.

"I have a basic understanding of which plant foods are best consumed raw and which are best cooked, including which greens can rob your body of essential minerals if eaten uncooked (spinach) and which plants contain toxins that need to be neutralized before consumption."

??? I juice carrots apple and spinach with a clove of garlic is that wrong?

Mmm, I love asparagus. And yeah, pizza's one of our favorite "bad things", but we generally get the bake-at-home ones and make them as good as possible.

As for your juice, it's not bad, but depending on how much spinach you add and how frequently you drink it could cause a problem with calcium deficiency. The oxalic acid in raw spinach binds up calcium and prevents it from being absorbed. It can also tie up iron, magnesium and potassium. If your diet is rich in calcium and you don't drink the spinach juice too frequently, then it's probably not an issue. But if you're not sure about your calcium intake you might want to be careful. Also, if you have a family history of kidney or bladder stones, oxalic acid is a big contributor to those, so once again, be very careful of your intake. :)

[Maureen]

...I certainly hope that I use the herbs, fruits and other plant foods I consume with prudence. I have a basic knowledge of herbology, including which herbs to avoid during pregnancy because they can act as abortifacients if consumed too often or by a susceptible woman.

I remember when taking prenatal classes when I was expecting my daughter (many years ago), that the instructors emphazied the avoidance of herbal teas during pregnancy. I had no idea at the time myself and I'm sure that there are many that don't know what consumables are safe or not during pregnancy.

[the Ogre]

Sorry if this offends you. Well, not really...

Bah, don't worry about it. If you were as capable of being rude as being redundant, then I'd be concerned.

Have a good one Six.

[Elgama]

I remember when taking prenatal classes when I was expecting my daughter (many years ago), that the instructors emphazied the avoidance of herbal teas during pregnancy. I had no idea at the time myself and I'm sure that there are many that don't know what consumables are safe or not during pregnancy.

yeah this one bothers me right now ginger tea is advocated for Morning Sickness but Ginger has been used in herbal abortions for thousands of years, as its believed it sets your womb back to the original state

-Charley

[Aelswyth]

yeah this one bothers me right now ginger tea is advocated for Morning Sickness but Ginger has been used in herbal abortions for thousands of years, as its believed it sets your womb back to the original state

-Charley

A mild ginger tea is okay, and can help settle nausea; but it's probably a good idea not to make it really strong.

The main herbs to avoid during pregnancy are the ones that promote menstruation or are uterine stimulants. These include both Blue and Black Cohosh, Angelica, Borage, Motherwort, Mugwort, Pennyroyal, Rue and Yarrow. Also, nutmeg can cause miscarriage in large doses and should be used sparingly. Pennyroyal in particular is very, very powerful, and should not even be handled by pregnant women. Women have been known to begin menstruating from sitting on a Pennyroyal plant. AVOID IT!

GOOD HERBS for pregnancy are Burdock Root, Chamomile (good combined with a little ginger), Dandelion, Nettle and Red Raspberry Leaf.

[VisionOfLehi]

The Word of Wisdom says no "hot drinks", which Joseph Smith said meant "coffee and tea".

But plenty of LDS people drink herbal tea. Why is this?

I know the Word of Wisdom also says:

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

But how do you reconcile that with "no tea"? I've searched, and no talk given by the First Presidencies or Apostles ever mentions "herbal tea." They all say "no tea."

Would this not mean to use the herbs, but not as tea or drink?

Searching the scriptures, the talk about herbs is always about EATING them, not about DRINKING them...

I'm sorry, I'm confused about all of this. I know people who drink herbal tea are allowed in the temple, and that the Prophets, Seers, and Revelators have not spoken directly against it, but it does not make any sense to me to be okay with drinking it.

Does anyone have any scripture, or Presidency/Apostolic talk about the subject that talks about herbal tea? Or even a CES manual that mentions it?

Edit: To further add to my questioning... As I understand, most herbs used in teas have medicinal value. All of those just listed by Aelswyth, with the exception perhaps of Red Raspberry, all have medical effects. Shouldn't we be avoiding intaking medicines and drugs unless we need them? I can self-diagnose a headache or sinus problem and take an Advil or Sudafed, but those are FDA approved and come with directions/dosages on them. I don't find the same thing on a pack of tea...

[WANDERER]

Rhubarb has oxalic acid in it...like spinach... it came up on a plant discussion on monsteria deliciosa (sp) ..a tropical fruit. Unripe deliciosa can be a bit lethal.

I came across a reference to someone that wouldn't drink soup as part of the WOW...but this is probably not common? If you were to extend it to foods that are cooked in hot water that would rule out a lot.

[VisionOfLehi]

See, Joseph Smith clarified that "hot drinks" meant Coffee and Tea. I'm good with that. We have iced coffee and tea, and those aren't heated by any means, but I don't drink them either. (I was once told that "hot drinks" was an expression similar to "strong drinks" and back then people understood what "hot" meant, and it wasn't necessarily a heat thing, but the fact that the beverages were stimulating and whatnot.)

So, I don't think eating the spices/herbs and stuff is wrong... We're told to... with PRUDENCE. But drinking tea regularly doesn't seem very prudent. And drinking it just on occasion... what's the point? Why risk receiving these blessings?:

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Edit: To further add to my questioning... As I understand, most herbs used in teas have medicinal value. All of those just listed by Aelswyth, with the exception perhaps of Red Raspberry, all have medical effects. Shouldn't we be avoiding intaking medicines and drugs unless we need them? I can self-diagnose a headache or sinus problem and take an Advil or Sudafed, but those are FDA approved and come with directions/dosages on them. I don't find the same thing on a pack of tea...

Again I must emphasise that this is only the Gospel According to Willow but how I see it the use of herbal remedies or drinking herbal teas for their health properties is more in keeping with the WOW than taking chemical concoctions bought over the counter.

I see it as being in the same context as using tobacco as prescribed in the WOW. Tobacco isn't a forbidden substance, smoking it is a forbiddden use of it. Like glue - it's useful for sticking things together with but can be lethal if inhaled. It isn't meant to be inhaled.

I prefer to go with the natural way of trying to stay healthy as much as I possibly can, although I do admit that there are things for which we also need to take prescribed medications.

As far as my experience goes the Church approves of drinks such as Caro and Barleycup which are made in exactly the same way as instant coffee. Just as herbal 'teas' are made in the same way as tea - all use boiling water poured over the substances in order to extract the flavours. If Caro and Barleycup etc are OK then I figure so are the herbal brews.

[VisionOfLehi]

I'm on a different boat... I believe medical and technological advances are gifts given and inspired by the Lord. But, as all things, they should be used properly. I still don't like using medicine unless I have to, though.

If a doctor prescribed me an herb as such, and told me how much to use and how often, then I'd more inclined to use it... But, still... "tea" says "tea" and not "non-herbal tea".

I guess the point I'm getting at is... How can I be sure it's alright to drink even herbal tea and still receive all the blessings prescribed in D&C 89, and that the whole "Herbal tea is okay" thing isn't just a working of Satan, having used his guile and persuasion to deprive many of those blessings?

Edit: My goal is to not go through life being overly uptight and avoidant, and restrict myself unnecessarily in the name of the Lord... I'm sure the WoW/tea thing won't be the last thing to confuse me. I've seriously been wondering about herbal tea for about 6 months now.

[Elgama]

Like Willow I see them more in keeping with the Word of Wisdom than not - I make my own by drying herbs and putting them in a little muslim, I find they relax, calm and warm me and are less fattening than juice (which has its place), a change from water and overall a lot healthier than hot chocolate which I see as an occasional treat not a pre bedtime drink.

-Charley

[VisionOfLehi]

What makes Camellia sinensis, the tea plant, different than, say, Chamomile? Aside from caffeine?

[Elgama]

I'm on a different boat... I believe medical and technological advances are gifts given and inspired by the Lord. But, as all things, they should be used properly. I still don't like using medicine unless I have to, though.

If a doctor prescribed me an herb as such, and told me how much to use and how often, then I'd more inclined to use it... But, still... "tea" says "tea" and not "non-herbal tea".

I guess the point I'm getting at is... How can I be sure it's alright to drink even herbal tea and still receive all the blessings prescribed in D&C 89, and that the whole "Herbal tea is okay" thing isn't just a working of Satan, having used his guile and persuasion to deprive many of those blessings?

Edit: My goal is to not go through life being overly uptight and avoidant, and restrict myself unnecessarily in the name of the Lord... I'm sure the WoW/tea thing won't be the last thing to confuse me. I've seriously been wondering about herbal tea for about 6 months now.

Maybe it is right for you to avoid them for some reason, noone knows your health better than the Lord and I will take a strong prompting or blessing over medical advice any day. With my daughter I switched to a formula I felt prompted to use, she had an allergy to breastmilk and most formulas, because she was prem it was advised that she went on a curd based milk only after she reached 8-9lbs, I chose to use it and she improved straightaway, put on weight etc, when my little dog aged 17 came down with seal flu I was advised to put her to sleep, it didn't feel right, a blessing told me to give her a shower, and let her lie on the sofa, and feed her a milky pudding on my finger - I did that for 3 weeks, and she got much better and went on to live another 3.5 years she could only jump about 2ft in the air after that (as opposed to nearly 4 before), and it did weaken her a little, but she was in pretty good shape for her age.

Because of my illness I had to take the WoW very seriously down to only eating meat in the winter

I know I receive the blessings in the WoW not many people with Fibromyalgia have it for over 10 years as severely as mine and still have it as their only diagnosis, most by this point will have a form of arthritis, maybe a mental disorder, asthma, and many other problems, I am only about 9lbs overweight about half of which is water retention that in itself is an achievement, and yesterday I walked about 11 miles in total, today I am a little achy but not dead, I can't do that when my illness is bad but I haven't needed a wheelchair in many years.

-Charley