Ezra's Eagle

[Ironhold]

35 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I like your post because I think it opens the door for some fun conversations.

The Traveler

Between what I got in college and what I got from the School of Hard Knocks, I've had a fair bit of training in psychological warfare. 

A big part of what I do now is try to explain to people the fact that there's a game, that they're playing the game even if they don't know it, and how they can make the rules work for them. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backmasking

Take, for example, the whole to-do over backmasking, the practice of hiding backwards messages in audio. 

Actual instances of backmasking were rare at first. Most alleged incidents were people hearing random noise & gibberish and their brain filling in the gaps. This led to a moral panic over just what was ostensibly "hidden" in music and other media. By the end of the 1980s, several individuals who had chosen to self-terminate claimed they'd heard messages in various popular music songs, leading to their families suing the bands. 

This moral panic led to a *spike* in actual incidents of backmasking as everyone from musicians to TV show producers decided to have their fun with everyone and prank anyone who was actually willing to risk damaging their equipment (this being the 1980s and all) by trying to listen in for what often wasn't there.

...Yes, TV show producers. A 1985 episode of the "G. I. Joe" cartoon has the villain Destro deciding that since modern conventional weapons weren't stopping the good guys, he'd go talk with his kin about summoning a demon from underneath the family castle. Sunbow, the production company, often inserted commentary about real-world issues into their cartoons, and so they couldn't pass up the opportunity this presented. As a result, the "chant" we hear is a reversed and mildly distorted rendition of Destro's voice actor reading the line "Anyone listening to this backwards for a secret occult message is a real dweeb". 👹

To this day, however, you'll still find people who truly believe things like "Revolution #9 has a reference to Paul secretly being dead" because they were primed to believe it's there and so they "hear" it when they listen to the supposed audio. 

 

[Traveler]

29 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Between what I got in college and what I got from the School of Hard Knocks, I've had a fair bit of training in psychological warfare. 

A big part of what I do now is try to explain to people the fact that there's a game, that they're playing the game even if they don't know it, and how they can make the rules work for them. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backmasking

Take, for example, the whole to-do over backmasking, the practice of hiding backwards messages in audio. 

Actual instances of backmasking were rare at first. Most alleged incidents were people hearing random noise & gibberish and their brain filling in the gaps. This led to a moral panic over just what was ostensibly "hidden" in music and other media. By the end of the 1980s, several individuals who had chosen to self-terminate claimed they'd heard messages in various popular music songs, leading to their families suing the bands. 

This moral panic led to a *spike* in actual incidents of backmasking as everyone from musicians to TV show producers decided to have their fun with everyone and prank anyone who was actually willing to risk damaging their equipment (this being the 1980s and all) by trying to listen in for what often wasn't there.

...Yes, TV show producers. A 1985 episode of the "G. I. Joe" cartoon has the villain Destro deciding that since modern conventional weapons weren't stopping the good guys, he'd go talk with his kin about summoning a demon from underneath the family castle. Sunbow, the production company, often inserted commentary about real-world issues into their cartoons, and so they couldn't pass up the opportunity this presented. As a result, the "chant" we hear is a reversed and mildly distorted rendition of Destro's voice actor reading the line "Anyone listening to this backwards for a secret occult message is a real dweeb". 👹

To this day, however, you'll still find people who truly believe things like "Revolution #9 has a reference to Paul secretly being dead" because they were primed to believe it's there and so they "hear" it when they listen to the supposed audio. 

 

Since I am dyslexic, I often think I hear (, read or see) something that does not make logical sense to me.  I have come to believe that if something does not logically fit its paradigm that it is not true or real.   Science tells us that we do not see anything but rather the brain takes information (electrically from nerves) and forms the images that we see.  Astronauts in space often bumped into tools floating around because their brains kept such things from view because we humans have learned that gravity does not allow heavy tools to float.

But again we must be careful because there is no difference to an individual between what they see or hear from what they think they see or hear. I believe that Satan is smart enough and has knowledge to use our individual follies against us.  This is why no one can resist temptation or deception without divine help.  For me this is the logical reason not to challenge, in any degree, the ability to be deceived by Satan.  I personally live with the possibility that somewhere, somehow – I have fallen into a demonic trap designed specifically for my arrogance.  This is another reason I like to see what others think of my thoughts and concerns. It is another check for something I did not consider.  Unfortunately, many take my questioning of logic as my determination that their logic as a threat – when I am just making sure I understood them correctly and that there is solid logic that I can relate to.

 

The Traveler

[ShanShan]

Anyone else coming to this thread after this week’s crazy events? (Trump’s assassination attempt, Biden getting pushed out, Cheatle resigning, Harris getting the immediate nomination, etc) Biden’s term certainly seems to be getting cut short. Secret combinations are definitely all within the government. I’m the opposite of a conspiracy theorist. I always try to reason through details and think the best of people. But this week?? This week stinks of secret combinations, evil plots, and evil up to no good!!! 

[pam]

42 minutes ago, ShanShan said:

Anyone else coming to this thread after this week’s crazy events? (Trump’s assassination attempt, Biden getting pushed out, Cheatle resigning, Harris getting the immediate nomination, etc) Biden’s term certainly seems to be getting cut short. Secret combinations are definitely all within the government. I’m the opposite of a conspiracy theorist. I always try to reason through details and think the best of people. But this week?? This week stinks of secret combinations, evil plots, and evil up to no good!!! 

I wasn't aware that Harris got an automatic nomination. I know some have endorsed her but I don't think she's official yet,

[mirkwood]

Biden stepping away from the nomination also does not fulfill Ezra's Eagle.  He will have to leave the Presidency early for it to match up with EE.

[zil2]

Welcome to ThirdHour, @ShanShan!

[ZealoulyStriving]

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

Biden stepping away from the nomination also does not fulfill Ezra's Eagle.  He will have to leave the Presidency early for it to match up with EE.

He's got 3 months to... You know... ⚰️

[Grenjelo]

Biden did not step away from the campaign benevolently though he claimed to in his staged speech this evening.  He was forced out by opposition in his own party and donors cutting off new funding.  They've rendered him a lame duck (different bird) after serving exactly 3.5 years (and lame enough that NORAD had to intercept a first ever combination of Russian and Chinese bombers near Alaska whose arrival coincided with his speech). When has a party done that to their own incumbent president?

He may still be in office, but his political power appears finished.

 

[Traveler]

On 7/23/2024 at 5:54 PM, mirkwood said:

Biden stepping away from the nomination also does not fulfill Ezra's Eagle.  He will have to leave the Presidency early for it to match up with EE.

Has he ever functioned as "THE PRESIDENT"?  With ambiguous symbology - it can be purty much be molded to fit any orifice – I mean office. 

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

On 7/23/2024 at 4:41 PM, ShanShan said:

Anyone else coming to this thread after this week’s crazy events? (Trump’s assassination attempt, Biden getting pushed out, Cheatle resigning, Harris getting the immediate nomination, etc) Biden’s term certainly seems to be getting cut short. Secret combinations are definitely all within the government. I’m the opposite of a conspiracy theorist. I always try to reason through details and think the best of people. But this week?? This week stinks of secret combinations, evil plots, and evil up to no good!!! 

Greetings @ShanShan and welcome to the forum.  In another life – after college I went to work for a company that contracted with the government.  Initially I worked for the Anti-submarine Warfare division then changed companies and moved to mostly Air Force projects. 

If you think about it – just about everything the government does meets the criterion of a conspiracy – especially when money is involved – directly or indirectly.  If anything looks fishy, strange, out of place or inconsistent, you can bet the farm there is a conspiracy far deeper, wider and more nefarious than you can imagine.

Consider the scripture – Doctrine and Covenants 121:39

Quote

39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

Never-the-less I got to love it that you default to thinking the best of people.  Looking forward to hearing more from you.

 

The Traveler

[cumorahcommons]

On 12/13/2023 at 4:33 PM, zil2 said:

No, I've not gone off the deep end!  

TL,DR: Has anyone actually read the original interpretation (by Michael B. Rush who appears to have originated it) of the vision contained in the apocryphal book 2 Esdras, chapters 11 and 12 about US presidents and used to predict the timing of the Second Coming?  If so, do you have any thoughts?

(Above chapter 11 link is an old book on the google play store that was scanned. I trust its translation more as some make no sense and confuse matters more. Other good ones seem to be the Bible Gateway one and Bible Society one.)

Long Version:

A Church member (sister) I know has been reading some books and watching some videos by this fellow, including the book in which he details his interpretation (which he said is inspired, and explains when / how that happened in the book - and in the excerpt at the above link).  Here is where he claims to be the originator (at same link) - at least, that's my interpretation:

Of course, brother Rush has written books and is selling them, along with making YouTube videos.  This is the first time I've heard of him.  And though I've heard the phrase "Ezra's Eagle" before, I had no idea what it was and never felt inclined to investigate.

Back to this sister.  She said her adult children have been giving her a hard time because she's reading the guy's books and asked if I'd be willing to read some portion of them (or perhaps all) and tell her what I think.  The short section on Ezra's Eagle (from the July 2020 edition of A Remnant Shall Return) was the first thing she wanted me to read.  So, I took the book.

First thing I did was google this site, and then the web.  I didn't find much in text (hate watching videos when I'm trying to learn details - wastes so much time).  But I found that it's from a vision in the apocryphal book of 2 Esdras 11 and 12.  So, I found that and read it.  It meant nothing specific to me, so then I turned to the book. (Later, I went back and read some of the book of Daniel 2, 7 and 8, because it's mentioned in 2 Esdras, but I couldn't find any obvious relation between the visions - though I don't suppose there has to be.)

Useful notes about me:

• I'm not a history buff. I think the US education system I grew up in was explicitly designed to cause children to be disinterested in history, and it succeeded with me.  I've only recently started changing my mind, so I'm ignorant as a stump.
• I'm not a "signs of the times" buff.  I know the scriptures, I know the basics of these signs, but I've always figured the Second Coming for me was more likely to happen at my death than at the Second Coming, and either way, my preparation ought to be the same - live the gospel, follow the prophets.
• I'm skeptical about folks claiming to have figured out interpretations of scripture (or apocryphal writings) that are new to the world, so I figure that makes me a good candidate to give this sister a reasoned opinion.
• But I also believe firmly that secret combinations are real, in operation at this moment, and present a real threat to our peaceful and prosperous existence in this country.  IMO, President Benson was no nut job.
• Back when Ordain Women was all over the news (but new to me), I decided rather than reading news stories about them, I'd go to their website and see what they said about themselves. As soon as the home page loaded, the Spirit communicated to me in no uncertain terms that this was a dangerous place.  It didn't tell me to leave, just gave me a sense that I needed to be on my guard. That experience has led me to trust that this can happen, to be open for such guidance, and to be skeptical and cautious when researching such things.  All this to say, I'm not in danger of going off the deep end after things like this.

Initial Impression

So, back to the book.  I read the first chapter - which was more about him, what he's doing, and why.  It raised some yellow flags (not orange or red, just yellow):

• Some phrases could be him setting the reader up to trust the author over prophets and over what they have already learned - maybe (or maybe they're just poorly worded - I would need to read more of his writings to figure out which).
• He seems to use scripture to discredit himself without realizing it.
• In the second chapter, he cites scripture that supports him, but skips over verses of the same passage that might encourage the reader to be skeptical of him (which makes me more skeptical).
• In some places, his wording is a bit condescending, assuming the reader doesn't know certain scriptures or understand their import, and telling the reader that he (the author) will educate the reader on these later. (This also made me wonder if he was trying to set up the reader to trust in the author more than themselves, prophets, the Church and its manuals, and/or the Holy Ghost - doesn't have to be the case, maybe the guy just thinks too much of himself, but it stood out to me.)
• And, when it comes to eagles as symbols, he doesn't even address Russia or Muscovy with its short-lived three-headed eagle (and I have no idea if there are others he missed).  Not sure that matters, but still.
• Mr. Rush is also in serious need of a (better) proofreader, editor, and typesetter / printer. (There's a chart / graph that is clearly missing key elements, and even if those elements were present, it would be meaningless without pages of citation to give the data points meaning.  It's kinda bizarre that it was left like that - and no fix or mention or anything on the website.)

Ezra's Eagle

And then I read the second chapter about Ezra's Eagle (have yet to read the third).  When I was done, there wasn't really anything that screamed "apostate" or "nut job" at me (though Mr. Rush comes off as both a Trump fan-boy and someone prone to over-the-top (to the point of absurd - seems to have been removed in his latest version found in the excerpt on the website) predictions about what might happen with Trump's presidency - which was on-going when the book was published (2015) and updated (2020)).  I didn't even find any particular reason to think he was wrong except (see the "mess up" comment next)...

After reading this chapter, wherein he seemed to mess up his counting of wings, feathers, and presidents - off by 1, I decided to go back to 2 Esdras and diagram what I read for myself, without regard for or consulting brother Rush's book. 

For those who don't know, the vision describes an eagle which has 3 heads, 12 wings (or large feathers), and 8 feathers (or small or "under" wings).  The interpretation describes the heads, wings, and feathers as "kings" that will rule the kingdom represented by the eagle.

Biggest problem - vagueness in sequence of the various wings/feathers ruling:

• Chapter 11 makes it clear that three of the larger wings rule first.
• After that, it suggests that the other 9 rule...
• But in v22 we see that the 12 wings (large feathers) and 2 feathers (little wings) are gone, so 2 of the 8 ruled in there somewhere, but that previous suggestion might make you think it was after the 9 wings.
• Then in chapter 12, in the interpretation, in v14 and 16, it says 12 kings - the 12 wings (large feathers) rule one after another.
• But then it says in v19 that the 8 "under wings" (little feathers) are kings who will reign for a short time.  "And two of them shall perish, when the middle time approacheth: four shall be kept for a while until the time of the ending thereof shall approach: but two shall be kept unto the end."  Which suggests that two of these kings who rule for a short time will be interspersed in with the 12 wings, despite it saying the 12 will rule "one after another".

None of that is insurmountable.  I wouldn't even consider it unusual for an ancient prophecy to not have details in order as we might expect them today.  One could be justified in arguing either way - 12 large rule, then the 8 small (forget the three heads for now); or 2 of the little are intermixed with the 12 large, then the rest of the little.  Neither is unreasonable.

Technical problem: in 11:13-17, but especially v17, it says of the second feather which ruled for a long time, "There shall none after thee attain unto thy time, neither unto the half thereof."  Brother Rush argues that this is FDR, who served 4 terms (but only 12 years, not 16).  Other presidents since him have served 2 terms, 8 years, which is more than half of 12.  And if you count 4 terms, they served 2, which is half as many, and the verse says they won't even get to half.  Brother Rush overcomes this by saying that Webster's 1828 dictionary defines "attain" "as exceeding or surpassing". The Webster's 1828 website doesn't agree. (But, "gain, overtake, arrive at" is the definition in Johnson's 1828 dictionary - Webster includes overtake, but also as a secondary possibility, barely mentioned.)

Now, I'm taking brother Rush's assertion that the first wing to rule this eagle is Herbert Hoover (see the excerpt for why - secret organization), and starting there.  For some reason, Rush himself screws up after wing #12 / president #14 (Barack Obama):

Duration	President	Wing / Feather
4	Herbert Hoover	Wing 1 of 12
12	Franklin D. Roosevelt	Wing 2 of 12
8	Harry S. Truman	Wing 3 of 12
8	Dwight D Eisenhower	Wing 4 of 12
2	John F. Kennedy	Feather 1 of 8
6	Lyndon B. Johnson	Wing 5 of 12
5	Richard M. Nixon	Feather 2 of 8
45	years to the middle
2.5	Gerald R. Ford	Wing 6 of 12
4	Jimmy Carter	Wing 7 of 12
8	Ronald Reagan	Wing 8 of 12
4	George Bush	Wing 9 of 12
8	Bill Clinton	Wing 10 of 12
8	George W. Bush	Wing 11 of 12
8	Barack Obama	Wing 12 of 12
1	Donald J. Trump	Feather 3 of 8
3	Joseph R. Biden	Feather 4 of 8
46.5	years since the middle

 

Maybe he screwed it up because he was using one of the weird translations.  Anywho, this screw up is why I stopped after chapter 2 and went back to 2 Esdras 11-12 to map it out for myself.  Ignoring that, let us start with Obama, the last wing.  At this point, all 12 wings and 2 of 8 feathers have ruled, leaving us 6 feathers.  Here's what the vision says about those:

• 11:24: two of the 6 remaining go and move under the head on the right (presumably ally themselves politically).  These are the two saved to the end (see above).
• Of the remaining 4, they wanted to rule (11:25)
• 11:26: (feather 3 of 😎 "there was one set up, but within a while it appeared no more" - this is no different from previous language.  But the translation Rush is using says "there was one set up, but shortly it appeared no more."  He takes the "shortly" to mean the presidency would be cut short - Trump's presidency.  No, "shortly" hasn't been used before, but had he gone to the interpretation, that makes it clear that all the little feathers will rule for a shorter time (12:20).  So Trump's rule didn't have to be cut short for "shortly" to apply. (Alternately, Rush somehow skipped this feather.)
• 11:27: (feather 4 of 😎 "A second also, and it was sooner away than the first."  This suggests that Biden's presidency will end before its full 4 years are up (if Rush's interpretation is correct, once his own error is fixed).  Rush actually completely misses either feather 3 or feather 4 - it's impossible to tell which - if he thinks Trump is feather 4, he misses #3; if he thinks Trump is feather 3, he misses 4.
• Having jumped over one feather without addressing it, he goes straight to feathers 5 and 6 (and this is where he poses some absurd scenarios that I'm not even going to bother addressing - we're past that anyway with Biden being feather 4).  Truly baffled that he could screw this part up even before Biden was elected.
• Note that feathers 3, 4, 5, and 6 are "kept for a while until the time of the ending thereof shall approach" (ending of the eagle).  This would suggest we're nearing the end.
• Feathers 7 & 8 will be "kept unto the end".

Anywho, if brother Rush is correct (after I've corrected his mistake), here's what's going to happen:

• Biden's presidency will be cut short - shorter than Trump's.
• Feathers 5 & 6 - two folk who want to rule (11:28) will be "eaten up" when the three heads awake with the larger one ruling and the two smaller ones its allies.
• The large head rules "with much oppression" and more power than any of its predecessors. "For these (the three heads) are they that shall accomplish her (the eagle's) wickedness, and that shall finish her last end."  (Whether this will be the next president after Biden or something else due to government collapse, heaven knows.)
• Suddenly the big giant head (sorry, couldn't resist) will die in its bed in pain (11:33 and 12:26)
• Then the right and left heads will rule together, but the right head will kill the left with the sword (11:34-35, 12:27-28)
• Then the right will also die by the sword (12:28) after being condemned by the Lord (11:36-12:2)
• Then the last two feathers (7 & 😎 will rule together "and their kingdom was small (likely means short), and full of uproar" (12:2)
• These two will be burned up along with the entire eagle (12:3, 29-33)

But don't worry, "For the rest of my people shall he deliver with mercy, those that have been preserved throughout my borders, and he shall make them joyful until the coming of the end, even the day of judgement, whereof I have spoken unto thee from the beginning."

Well, I guess I'll go read chapter 3 now.  Final thought: If brother Rush is seeking to set himself up above prophets or to lead people astray, starting the book with an interpretation of a vision from the apocrypha, where there's nothing from any prophet to contradict him, is a clever move to gain the reader's trust in his authenticity and insight.  (I'd be more convinced were it not for the glaring "feather 3/4 error" and the absurdities of what might happen if Trump's presidency were cut short.)

Anywho, FWIW, and curious if anyone else has thoughts.  If you made it this far, you deserve a milkshake - go get one!

I enjoy Rush's books. I've read all them except his most recent book that just came out. Admittedly, they're a little far out, but who is to say that the second coming won't be far out. I suspect reality is far more like science fiction than our day to day lives lead us to think. 

A few insights I found:

You can read this in the Vulgate (https://www.biblestudytools.com/vula/2-esdras/11.html). In v. 17, time is tempus which can mean opportunity, which could refer to term in office. The latin is singular in v. 16-17, which means it would be referring to specifically to FDR. "neither unto the half thereof" is "sed nec dimidium eius" could be more poetic in that the voice is saying nobody will come close to FDR in opportunities for the presidency. Prophecy is poetry, not prose. 

It is interesting that the three short feathers were all targets of intelligence agencies: JFK, Nixon, and Trump. Between Biden's July 2024 debate and the coup that forced his announcement to not seek re-election, even Joe Biden (proposed short feather 4) had fallen out of favor with the intel agencies for his stubbornness to run even though he had a very low chance of winning after the media and DNC turned on him.

Fortunately, we won't have to wait too long to see what happens with this. Then, when all of us Christians are being shipped off to the gulags, Michael Rush can say, "HA! I told you so!" 

[zil2]

Well, lest @Vort suffer from excess happiness:

8 minutes ago, Vort said:

@mikbone, I have to hand it to you. When you started this thread right after the first assassination attempt, I thought you were jumping the gun. The superstitious side of my brain almost felt like you were jinxing things. But your prophecy came true. Congrats. As a reformed Never-Trump-er, I'm quite happy about that.

I'll just note here that the three heads have about 2.5 months to wake up...

[mirkwood]

Yep, this is still in play as I understand it until Trump is sworn in.

[person0]

13 hours ago, mirkwood said:

Yep, this is still in play as I understand it until Trump is sworn in.

What do the verses say.  Could they be interpreted differently?

[zil2]

10 minutes ago, person0 said:

What do the verses say.  Could they be interpreted differently?

My OP has a link to Esdras II chapter 11 - that's for the google play book version (it's a free book that you can read in a browser or google's play books app).  I like that version the best as I find some of the other translations seem inconsistent with how we interpret OT language.  The prophecy continues into chapter 12.

The verses alone won't tell you any of this.  You have to go by the interpretation that Micheal B. Rush proposed (with corrections - see my OP).  In that variation, after Biden's shortened presidency (11:27) (which is easily conceded - dude's all but disappeared), there are two who seek power, but before they can obtain it, the eagle's three heads wake up and "eat" them (11:28-31).

Within the context of Micheal B. Rush's interpretation, the only valid alternatives are that Trump and Vance (I guess, since Vance would be president if Trump were killed before entering office) are killed, or that they are otherwise "eaten" by the three heads - however one wishes to interpret "eaten".  To me, the way the following verses read, these three heads then rule the whole world "with much oppression".  So it seems like it would be pretty obvious that it's not the US President in charge of the US, but something else.  Then there's in-fighting between the three heads until only the one on the right remains.  This one is confronted by a lion (the lion of Judah? see 12:31-34 - reads like Christ to me, or at least someone sent by Him) and (this third head) disappears.  Then the final two feathers set up a small kingdom "full of uproar".  Then they disappear and the body of the eagle is burned "so that the earth was in great fear".  And that's the end of the dream.  Chapter 12, starting in verse 10, then gives an interpretation of the vision.  Of interest are verses 23-24 which describe the three heads of the eagle as three kingdoms

[person0]

2 hours ago, zil2 said:

Within the context of Micheal B. Rush's interpretation, the only valid alternatives are that Trump and Vance (I guess, since Vance would be president if Trump were killed before entering office) are killed, or that they are otherwise "eaten" by the three heads - however one wishes to interpret "eaten".

I think that's where I am going.  Could it be that eaten simply means that everything they try to do to improve the situation is swallowed up and blocked by bureaucracy such that Trump remains president but his plans don't matter because they are prevented?  If so, could that open the door to as much as a Trump 2nd term (possibly shortened somehow), then a Vance 1st term before a period of global control and oppression?  Some translations refer to the next two as 'wings that planned to reign'.  Could it be something like Trump saying, "I planned to do all these things, but they stopped me" (e.g. he is making and announcing many plans already right now).

Perhaps this isn't a viable alternative interpretation, but it seems like it could be. 🤷‍♂️

[Carborendum]

The Hebrew word for "eagle" refers to an unclean bird of prey.  Another meaning of "unclean" is "foreign."  Based on the symbolism, the three eagles represent three other superpowers that would take over the US. 

If superpowers, I'm guessing China, Russia, & India.  No other nations seem powerful enough to qualify.

If Russia doesn't seem like a superpower anymore, then that would probably be the first to get eaten. Strange, considering a common symbol of Russia is also a three-headed eagle.

However, the eagle heads are actually part of the eagle's body.  So, it may refer to a domestic power (or three of them).  If so, the deep state is one possibility.

Why three?  Why the Triumvirate of Rome?  The deep state cannot remain unified by altruism.  It must be united by the principle of mutual assured destruction.

It may also be that, due to chaos from a non-peaceful transfer of power in an already fractured nation, the nation itself divides into three nations.  But based on the imagery, that balance of power won't last long.

[zil2]

35 minutes ago, person0 said:

I think that's where I am going.  Could it be that eaten simply means that everything they try to do to improve the situation is swallowed up and blocked by bureaucracy such that Trump remains president but his plans don't matter because they are prevented?  If so, could that open the door to as much as a Trump 2nd term (possibly shortened somehow), then a Vance 1st term before a period of global control and oppression?  Some translations refer to the next two as 'wings that planned to reign'.  Could it be something like Trump saying, "I planned to do all these things, but they stopped me" (e.g. he is making and announcing many plans already right now).

Perhaps this isn't a viable alternative interpretation, but it seems like it could be. 🤷‍♂️

The way the prophecy reads, these two "feathers" never have power.  To me, them being in charge, but ineffective doesn't really fit.  These sorts of things fit:

• They're killed and something external rules over the whole world (thing WHO or WEF or something)
• They're actually part of that external something (or become part of it or are controlled by it)

The rule of the three heads doesn't seem shadowy in the prophecy - it seems like we all know it and are oppressed by it (very WEF-y, frankly).

27 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Based on the symbolism, the three eagles represent three other superpowers that would take over the US. 

Not three eagles.  Three heads of the same eagle.  Otherwise, yeah, something external to the normal US government.

28 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Strange, considering a common symbol of Russia is also a three-headed eagle.

The two-headed was common.  The three-headed was original, brief, and supposedly changed because of this prophecy.  (Though the third head's crown remains.)

30 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

However, the eagle heads are actually part of the eagle's body.  So, it may refer to a domestic power (or three of them).  If so, the deep state is one possibility.

Yes, lots of speculation about this, particularly involving the CIA and FBI.  Having re-read it just prior to answering @person0, it didn't seem that way - it seemed like an external entity, but that could be all me.  I mostly think that because whoever it is, they're described as ruling over the whole world, not just a kingdom (everyone else gets a kingdom...).

32 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But based on the imagery, that balance of power won't last long.

Yeah, once the three heads wake up, things seem to devolve quickly.   Hooray!

[person0]

1 hour ago, zil2 said:

The way the prophecy reads, these two "feathers" never have power.

Perhaps, but I think when looking at the whole thing, it may not.  For example: In theory, Biden would have to be one of the underwings that thought to set himself up to rule, but he really didn't; he was just a puppet, ruled and controlled by others.  During Trump's first term, he was led, sometimes by bad actors, to make appointments, etc, that he wouldn't now make.  I'm not arguing this so much to suggest I believe this theory to be accurate, but more to point to how I think this could live on for many people even in the wake of Trump actually taking office, and actually making a difference for the first few months before being throttled, overturned, etc.

On another note, it is entirely possible the prophecy is legit but that human errors and interpolations have made it such that it won't match up but we will get a corrected and revised version after the second coming and be like, "Oh yeah!  That's exactly what happened.", haha.

[person0]

@zil2, Exhibit A:

 

[zil2]

4 hours ago, person0 said:

@zil2, Exhibit A:

I should know better than to be disappointed.  I saw a Candace Owens interview yesterday with a former CIA analyst.  I'm sure most people will dismiss it all as absurd, but I have no trouble believing his claims.  Fortunately, one day the world will end.   And when it does, we'll learn the truth.  (I also like to think about how shocked Richard Dawkins will be to find himself in the spirit world. )

[Carborendum]

I've finally done an in-depth reading of the eagle prophecy.  We've been looking at it all wrong.

The eagle is not the United States.  It is the machine, the deep state, the global cabal... whatever you want to call it.  The United States is simply a tool that it uses for its own ends.  The Presidents are manipulated.  And what happens afterward is not what we've been led to believe.

I'll put it all together in a more coherent format verse by verse and image by image if I have to.

But much of this prophecy has been misrepresented.

[zil2]

27 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I've finally done an in-depth reading of the eagle prophecy.  We've been looking at it all wrong.

The eagle is not the United States.  It is the machine, the deep state, the global cabal... whatever you want to call it.  The United States is simply a tool that it uses for its own ends.  The Presidents are manipulated.  And what happens afterward is not what we've been led to believe.

I'll put it all together in a more coherent format verse by verse and image by image if I have to.

But much of this prophecy has been misrepresented.

Note that my point was not to discuss what the prophecy meant or might mean, but Brother Rush's interpretation thereof.  The minute you remove his interpretation, you open up all sorts of possibilities.

[Carborendum]

On 11/11/2024 at 9:54 AM, zil2 said:

Brother Rush's interpretation thereof.

I just came across another video of Rush's interpretation.  I was surprised to find that he also said that the eagle heads reflect the deep state (or something like that).  It was just a fleeting mention.  So, I don't know if I align with him or not.

I'm still working some things out and continue to gather opinions.  But I think that the previous statements that I'd heard from both Rush and Prout were missing the mark.

One curiosity was the Lion.  Prout said it was England.  That sounded reasonable with the background he gave.  But when I read the text myself, I thought that was out of left field.