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Mike201

Do you get saved?

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I have been visited for over a week now with some Elders from our local ward. They are nice guys and we have learned a lot. Tonight they left a movie called "The Restoration" and we watched it. It seems there is more empasis on getting baptized than getting saved. I was brought up in a Baptist church and it is very important for you to get saved. The elders have scheduled a date for us to get baptized but there is no mention of us getting saved. Why?

Mike

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The proper method whereby individuals come into the fold of Christ is baptism. Through baptism, we take upon us the name of Christ and make a covenant to always remember Him and keep His commandments. This ordinance is the gate into the kingdom of God on earth.

In Acts 2, we can read of those that heard the preaching of Peter and the manner whereby they were saved into the fold of Christ. Verses 37-41 say: 'Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.'

The LORD's final words to the Apostles at His ascension are recorded by Matthew as: 'Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.' (Matt 28:19-20)

Mark tells us more: 'Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out edevils; they shall speak with new tongues;

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them: they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.' (Mark 16:15-18)

In short, the instance of getting saved has always been from the beginning: baptism by those in authority.

-a-train

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The ordinance of baptism IS being saved. As you are buried in the water, the sinner dies. As you arise, you do so saved from your previous life. You come forth like the resurrection, to a new life, a life in Christ.

Paul explained: 'Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.' (Rom 6:3-11)

-a-train

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Guest AutumnBreez

When is your baptism date? I know that as you continue to study that you will find truth and many things will begin to connect.

I have been in many churches/religions through the years. I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I fell away due to my own issues-divorce from an abusive nonmember, married an inactive, 12 years later I finally grew up- I returned! I know that the Spirit teaches me the truth when I am reading the scriptures. Things come to me in a perspective I normally don't see otherwise. Daily prayer and living the gospel the best you can everyday, in everyway, you can tell a difference when you don't tighten down. A-Train gave you scripture, showing that the instructions are from our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.

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I think most LDS confuse the heck out of Evangelical people with term's like salvation. Evangelical people are primarily concerned about people getting saved from hell. LDS tend to focus only on further specialized type of salvation which is different than salvation from hell. It's basically an idea of that a person can qualify for degree's of rewards, and kingdom's in the afterlife.

LDS tend to speak of two bad places hell and outerdarkness which is considered different. With the resurrection LDS scripture teache's salvation from those place's to a kingdom for anybody that passes the final judgement's is already a done deal. So when talking to perspective new member's LDS ignore what's done easily and focus on getting the person to qualify for salvation in particular places like the Celestial kingdom.

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I think the term 'saved' has not been confused by the LDS at all.

Jesus said: 'And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.' (Matt 10:22) Now, if that is the salvation we are talking about, we won't get it until enduring to the end.

Peter said of himself and the apostles: 'But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.' (Acts 15:11)

Paul said of the believers in Christ: 'Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.' (Rom 5:9-10)

Now, the confusion doesn't come from our modern evangelicals either. Paul also said: 'For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.' (1 Cor. 1:18)

Peter also said:'baptism doth also now save us' (1 Pet. 3:21)

So there is an apparent ambiguity within the scriptures that translates to trouble in our modern conversation. I personally see a scriptural basis here for saying we are saved in one sense and shall be saved in another. I have little hesitation, having been baptized into Christ, having taken upon myself His name, and having received the gift of the Holy Ghost, in saying that I am saved. But I also acknowledge that the salvation that requires enduring to the end will not come until I do so and will not come at all if I fail to so endure.

-a-train

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I think they hear uncertainty when LDS don't immediately answer "Yes." to the question "Are you saved?" They think LDS are trying to earn salvation from outer darkness. The concern LDS are trying to get into living with God with a bunch of brownee point's is common.

You can't satisfy them you believe salvation in the Celestial kingdom is by grace alone. So getting there after all you can do make's it so you could not say you are instantly saved the abode of God as they do. But with the lesser kingdom idea most LDS can affirm a probable "Yes." to the salvation from outer darkness.

In LDS belief LDS not living Celestial law arn't threatened with outer darkness. Unless a person is not living terrestrial, or telestial law they will still be saved to a kingdom of glory. All the scripture's that speak of falling from grace would be a total falling from grace and have the person unsaved from outer darkness.

I think LDS law of the kingdom's is a very grace filled idea.

Not abiding in Celestial law is not necessarily the same as not enduring to the end in any law. The angel's in LDS belief though not god's still endure to the end abiding in the law by which they are saved.

Is baptism needed for salvation in the lower kingdom's in LDS belief? I understand LDS belief was only that it was needed for the Celestial kingdom.

I ran into some good article's at Catholic Answer's that answered the instant salvation to the abode of God idea. I see faling from grace as the truer doctrine. I think one can affirm salvation in the present tense, but it's also a future condition conditional on not ever totally falling from grace. (Ephesians 2:8-10) So i think it's ok to affirm salvation in the present tense but only if you affirm with caution the future tense is not yet certain.

---

I am Community of Christ/RLDS. Not commenting on LDS doctrine for LDS, but only trying to understand LDS beliefs for myself better. I have conversations with EV people who think we are the same denomination as LDS. So i have to learn to be fair and give the best answer so as to not misrepresnt LDS beliefs.

We also consider D.&C. 76 scripture.

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My understanding what is being saved is that we are always in a constant effort to maintain our salvation, to stay saved, because of our carnal nature and sin. We constantly utilise repentance and the atonement to get ourselves back to the 'saved state'. at baptism we are saved, but we can eventually work ourselves away from our salvation by committing sins and not utilising repentance, and asking for forgiveness. To me baptism is the first step you take to committing your life to Christ, saying I will stand for Christ in all things and then accepting the first required ordinance to forward you towards your salvation(baptism).

From there we try our very best to follow in his footsteps and become more like him. If we try our best in all we do (even though it is not good enough as we will never be perfect in the world as it is now) it is the grace of God that then steps in and saves us 'after all that we can do' at the time of judgment, when we receive our 'reward'.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

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I grew up baptist also. What he is referring to is salvation through Jesus Christ dying on the Cross for our sins. Mike, when you go for your baptism interview, they will ask you if you beleive that Jesus Christ died for your sins, esentially, asking, are you saved. LDS tend not to use this term. It threw me off at first also, but then I realized they beleive the same thing, just don't word it the same. Baptism does not wash away your sins MormonGirl, Jesus dying on the cross washed them away.

JOHN 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever beleiveth in Him shall not perrish but have eternal life.

Baptism is an outward representation of an internal feeling. It represents to others that you have made the commitment to follow Christ.

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There are two basic types of baptism within the larger Christian community.

1. Sacramental baptism is believed to CONVEY salvation. Catholics, and some mainline Protestant churches, baptize infants because they believe that baptism is the means by which one receives "salvation." Jesus said to suffer (allow) the little childrent to come unto him--so, they offer baptism to infants, on the confession of faith of their parents, and then "confirm" the salvation when the children are old enough to learn and declare the doctrines of the faith as their own.

2. Believers' baptism (sometimes called credo-baptism) is seen more as a TESTIMONY of salvation. Jesus was baptized as an adult in his 30s. Every indication from the New Testament witness is that those who were baptized had responded to the call for repentence, and had already done so, prior to going under the waters.

My understanding is that LDS water baptism is primarily sacramental in nature, though infants are not required to undergo it, since they are not accountable for what they do not know.

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Baptism does not wash away your sins MormonGirl, Jesus dying on the cross washed them away.

Acts 22:16: 'And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

D&C 39:10: 'But, behold, the days of thy deliverance are come, if thou wilt hearken to my voice, which saith unto thee: Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on my name, and you shall receive my Spirit, and a blessing so great as you never have known.'

Alma 7:14: 'Now I say unto you that ye must repent, and be born again; for the Spirit saith if ye are not born again ye cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye may be washed from your sins, that ye may have faith on the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world, who is mighty to save and to cleanse from all unrighteousness.'

I think there is some precedent for the idea that baptism washes away sin. No, in and of itself, the action doesn't take our sins away, but baptism is the application of the blood of Christ whereby the repentant receive a newness of life worthy of the gift of the Holy Ghost. Let us not fear to use the language of the LORD and the scriptures in calling men to wash away their sins.

-a-train

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Evangelical people will read scriptures like Mark 16:16 so as to harmonize it with grace alone. They see unbelief not lack of being baptized that effects salvation. Plus in Acts 2 they see the persons being baptized because they were already saved. Baptism would be the fruit of salvation not the root.

Good work's in evangelicalism are done out of love for their Lord after they are saved not to be saved.

----------

With Titus 3:5 it's a common verse used against the idea obedience is essential to salvation. Some of those works of rightiousness were things we had to do upon pain of damnation if we did not do them.

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Guest JLHyde

I have been visited for over a week now with some Elders from our local ward. They are nice guys and we have learned a lot. Tonight they left a movie called "The Restoration" and we watched it. It seems there is more empasis on getting baptized than getting saved. I was brought up in a Baptist church and it is very important for you to get saved. The elders have scheduled a date for us to get baptized but there is no mention of us getting saved. Why?

Mike

______________

Mike, you "can't NOT be a Mormon". (Or, you are a Mormon posing as a Baptist, certainly). "...Elders from our local ward" is the phrase that gives you away. No Baptist would ever say that, in quite the same way as you and fellow LDS do.

Your cover is blown, my friend.

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Guest JLHyde

This should be of help

Have You Been Saved?

________________

Every time my water-loving cat falls into the pool it "gets saved" by the likes of me!

In that case, "getting" saved seems to be a lifelong hobby, for [the cat].

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