Julie B. Beck and her Talk "Mothers Who Know"

[Guest tomk]

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There's no way of knowing either really as I dont believe prayer is useful any longer. Ill have to wait until I die and see what happens then!

Thanks for your concern six. But I do not believe 'Satan' has any more influence over me than anything or anyone else! xx

I guess that is part of the point -- part of the test of mortality. Having faith. Forging a relationship with Christ instead of waiting for it to happen to you by chance.

Waiting until the end to "find out who was right" is too late. For then you WILL know who was right, but will no longer be able to do anything about it or benefit by having your faith tried and tested (the FUNDATMENTAL reason we are down here).

I don't know you -- but I am concerned about your attitude and your "let's wait and see" philosophy.

With many youth, the harder adults push, the more they rebel. I hope that you are capable of more than that kind of response.

I wish you well.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I feel so sad when reading your posts Aphrodite. There seems to be so much anger directed at the Church. What things do you feel have been hidden from you to make you feel this way? I know there are different accounts of the First Vision but they do all tell the same story but in different ways, just as I sometimes tell things in different ways depending on who I'm talking to and how long after the event I am telling it or how much time I have available. It's still fundamentally the same story though. The 4 Gospels are different in their emphasis but it's still the same Jesus they speak of.

[Vanessa2]

Aphrodite, now I understand better where you are coming from. Whether you believe it or not, the Lord knows where your are coming from, as well. He will be there for you if you decide to come to Him. It seems like a lot of your problems with 'the church' are actually problems with the actions of individuals and the fact that crappy things have happened to you and your family. I don't pretend to know you or your situation, but news flash: crappy things happen to everyone, whether they are members of the church or not. Just because we are members does not mean we are protected from life's challenges and trials, but it does mean we have a better understanding of why those things happen...to make us grow and progress. This includes finding out things that may be don't fit with our view of what we think the church was/is (ie Mountain Meadow Massacre, polygamy, etc), but these things do not mean the church isn't true. Some of these less than desirable aspects of church history are the faults of man and some we just don't completely understand, but I guess that's where doing your homework, prayer, and faith comes in. As with anything, when believing gets hard, that is not the time to quit; that is the time to dig your heals in and work at it.

D&C 82:10: "I the Lord am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." Maybe you could try 'being controlled' by what the Lord has says and see what happens. You've really got nothing to lose.

I don't think you're a negative person; I think you're being honest on your thoughts of the church...that happen to be negative. I'm sure you're a great person.

This weekend is General Conference and it's a great opportunity to hear some wonderful speakers give great messages, even if you don't think they are divine.

Good luck.

[Aphrodite]

Try not to be too hard on us in the meantime....

Sorry

Elgama I knew you'd understand as you've had difficulties with church in the past. If only u lived nearer we could meet up for a drink and a natter

Willow-Dont feel sad, Im not sad! Im angry at the church but it doesnt mean Im sad or unhappy :)

As with anything, when believing gets hard, that is not the time to quit; that is the time to dig your heals in and work at it.

That only works if you want to believe. I dont think I do, Im happy not following the constraints of the church. I spent my teenage years feeling permanently guilty for 'sinning' when I really I was doing NOTHING WRONG. Im making up for lost time by not feeling guilty in the slightest, even if I am knowingly 'sinning'.

Anyway, I feel I have boycotted this thread a little! I suppose I do vent out my feelings, but perhaps I shouldn't do that here. I can go to newordermormon for that where people think the same way I do!

Thanks for ure concern over me :)

[Heather]

As a working mother, I didn't have any problems with Sister Beck's talk at all. I will be the first, and my husband would be the second to tell you that I'm a much better person, mother, and wife now that I am working outside the home, even though I'm only gone for a few hours a week. I need that outlet. I needed to be in an environment where I could bounce ideas off of others and have the power and resources to implement my ideas. My first priority is always going to be to my children. In the eternal perspective of things, I believe the way I am living my life now is better for me and for my children. That doesn't mean it's the best way for everyone else.

The only area that raised any concern for me is for those women that I know who so badly want to bear a child, and have been unable to. It would be a hard talk for me to hear if I was in that position. One of the most heartbreaking emails I received recently was from my RS president to let us know that a couple in our ward was unable to bring home a baby they had been waiting for, because the birth mother changed her mind. I thought it was really special that the mother had seen her daughter and simply could not part with her, and at the same time I felt such heartache the couple in my ward. A few weeks later I was so happy to hear that the couple was able to adopt a different baby. When I hear talks on motherhood, my thoughts tend to drift towards those who are longing to be mothers, and I think it's very important to be as sensitive as possible.

[Elgama]

I know one of my visiting teachers had trouble with it in someways she is the most amazing homemaker, everything is handmade and cooked from scratch but they are unlikely to have children.. I know Sunday after my first miscarriage in RS the lesson was on Motherhood and the `hymns where Lovely Desert, and I am a Child of God. It hurt like mad - followed by a testimony meeting on the Sealing Power which is poor comfort after a miscarriage. I was a little upset at the time (well and truly over it), but felt at least the hymns in RS could have been tweaked.

I was actually thinking about Aphrodite yesterday whilst I was at conference - I know that during my period of anger I have never in my life being so far away from Heavenly Father - I didn't feel as though my prayers were being answered, now its starting to melt I feel the spirit again, the talk by Joseph B Wirthlin hit home to me about why I joined the church and what I see in it that is clearly from God. I guess I felt the last of any anger go, I don;t have doubts because I always knew that Heavenly Father wanted me to be a Latter Day Saint, but from a child until I was 25 prayer was easy, after having Ellie things started to slide. I am slolwy learning to pray again

-Charley

[BusyMom]

Here was my personal issue with the talk. Sister Beck seemed to demean education for women. First, Brigham Young stated that if he had the choice the educate his daughter or his sons, he would educate his daughters because they raise the next generation. I am well-educated woman and I am currently working part-time outside the home. My job is fulfilling and I like the opportunity to interact socially and not be isolated. I have a Master's degree. Last year, my daughter went through some intense behavioral problems that we were unsure of their origin and the normal behavioral plans were not effective in bringing the problem into control. I was able to work from home part of my days, go into to work once a week, and participate in teleconferences. This was for a period of three months while I was able to work with professionals to help uncover what my daughter was facing. Had I not had my education this would not have been a possibility, I would have lost my job! I have seen my co-workers let go for similiar situations because they do not have the education. In addition, many of the resources made available to my family during this time were a direct result of my employment. My education has also helped me through some very difficult family times because I had the knowledge to understand and make good decisions. Women need to have choices! Education is the key to opening doors and expanding opportunities. That was my major issue is that education was seen as "extra fluff" and I personally disagree with that.

BusyMom

[sixpacktr]

Here was my personal issue with the talk. Sister Beck seemed to demean education for women. First, Brigham Young stated that if he had the choice the educate his daughter or his sons, he would educate his daughters because they raise the next generation. I am well-educated woman and I am currently working part-time outside the home. My job is fulfilling and I like the opportunity to interact socially and not be isolated. I have a Master's degree. Last year, my daughter went through some intense behavioral problems that we were unsure of their origin and the normal behavioral plans were not effective in bringing the problem into control. I was able to work from home part of my days, go into to work once a week, and participate in teleconferences. This was for a period of three months while I was able to work with professionals to help uncover what my daughter was facing. Had I not had my education this would not have been a possibility, I would have lost my job! I have seen my co-workers let go for similiar situations because they do not have the education. In addition, many of the resources made available to my family during this time were a direct result of my employment. My education has also helped me through some very difficult family times because I had the knowledge to understand and make good decisions. Women need to have choices! Education is the key to opening doors and expanding opportunities. That was my major issue is that education was seen as "extra fluff" and I personally disagree with that.

BusyMom

Sorry BM, but what the heck are you talking about?

From Sis Beck's talk:

Mothers who know are leaders. In equal partnership with their husbands, they lead a great and eternal organization. These mothers plan for the future of their organization. They plan for missions, temple marriages, and education. They plan for prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Mothers who know build children into future leaders and are the primary examples of what leaders look like. They do not abandon their plan by succumbing to social pressure and worldly models of parenting. These wise mothers who know are selective about their own activities and involvement to conserve their limited strength in order to maximize their influence where it matters most.

and again

Home is where women have the most power and influence; therefore, Latter-day Saint women should be the best homemakers in the world. Working beside children in homemaking tasks creates opportunities to teach and model qualities children should emulate. Nurturing mothers are knowledgeable, but all the education women attain will avail them nothing if they do not have the skill to make a home that creates a climate for spiritual growth. Growth happens best in a "house of order," and women should pattern their homes after the Lord's house (see D&C 109). Nurturing requires organization, patience, love, and work. Helping growth occur through nurturing is truly a powerful and influential role bestowed on women.

Yep, sure seems to me that she is saying 'women don't need education, but they should make sure that their children get it!' Give me a break.

If you took offense at that, you were looking to be offended. It kind of ties with Pres McKay's admonition, repeated again during this conference: 'No success can compensate for failure in the home.' Unless, of course, you can feel better about yourself, then it is okay...

But hey, that was only a Prophet of God telling us what is truly important.

[Heather]

Six no need to be harsh, but glad you pointed out that she did say education was important, which I completely agree with.

[sixpacktr]

Six no need to be harsh, but glad you pointed out that she did say education was important, which I completely agree with.

Sorry...I was a tad harsh. I tend to get frustrated with the 'but it doesn't apply to me' attitude to prophetic counsel. Why? Because I had it for so long, and know how dangerous that road can be...Read 2nd Nephi 28:8.

There are those that will say I should be more empathetic then. Maybe. But the truth is that I had to have my 'blinders' removed quite forcibly in order to see that, and I'm grateful to that person (Nephi) that did it for me.

Another reason I absolutely love the BoM!

[WillowTheWhisp]

BusyMom it sounds to me like you were doing exactly what Sister Beck said, you were putting your family first. You didn't dismiss your daughter's problems as something someone else would have to deal with because you were a high flying career woman. You adjusted your working life for the sake of your daughter. You were illustrating that she means more to you than your occupation. Surely our families should mean more to us than anything else in life.

[BusyMom]

I agree that I did the right thing to pull her out and take care of the situation. It is much better now. My point was that my education allowed me to take the unusual step of flex-time, telecommuting and keeping some income coming in. This was a benefit to my family as the professional assistance needed was not inexpensive. It was also a benefit to me to have a place to go once a week and have some social interaction. Raising children is difficult but when you are dealing with severe behavior problems it is intense. I couldn't even go out to shop because I didn't know if she would act out. There was more than simple "not being disciplined" principles at play.

The ideas of telecommuting and flextime are not new but when you consider that I work in Early Childhood Education, it is amazing that the opportunity to work in a different capacity and take advantage of these options came into my life. My point is that education can enable women to keep their families first!!! If I had to work a traditional schedule, this would be impossible for me to keep my family first. I know the need to work has been debated but I need to work and I am grateful for my education.

I know that women can create a spiritual home without an education and can do an excellent job at it. I also know that when finances are stretched and there isn't enough to enjoy your family, when there are job problems, or when mothers feel alone and unsupported, it is also difficult to create a spiritual home. The value in education isn't that it makes you better, it simply opens new doors that can benefit families based on their unique needs. I just would hate for women to give up on their education that in the future could be the doors they need opened. I do not disagree that our families are our first priority and I agree with that 100%.

BusyMom

[MorningStar]

I think Sis. Beck's main point was that many people put less important things over their kids often and have their priorities all screwed up. Her talk certainly got people thinking. :)

[Canuck Mormon]

I think Sis. Beck's main point was that many people put less important things over their kids often and have their priorities all screwed up. Her talk certainly got people thinking. :)

I think this is very true. Parents need to put their faimly first.

[Elgama]

I think Sis. Beck's main point was that many people put less important things over their kids often and have their priorities all screwed up. Her talk certainly got people thinking. :)

I can't help but feel maybe her talk was inspired to get the discussion going - I loved M Russell Ballard's talk I feel read together this one loses its edge

-Charley

[MorningStar]

I think this is very true. Parents need to put their faimly first.

I especially enjoyed this combined with Elder Oaks' talk on Good, Better, Best. It made me feel better because I feel pressured to involve my kids in the things their friends are in, but it would be a strain on us time and money wise. What happened to kids just playing ball together for fun? It's gotten so serious and expensive. And it seems like they're being put in these things earlier and earlier. I think it's wonderful for kids to find a passion, but parents can't afford to indulge them in every passion they have.

When I was little, I had to make a choice between gymnastics and piano. I chose piano because I knew I could use it my whole life and use it to serve others. I don't regret that decision and I can't blame my parents for not wanting to spend the money on the gymnastics too plus find a way to run me around town.

Also, my friends in the neighborhood would play with me every day. We rode our bikes, played tag, hide and seek, etc. It was so simple then. While I was doing that, my mom was making dinner and she would call us in. I loved those days. I didn't sit in front of the TV all day like so many kids do now. We would do our homework and get outside to play as soon as we could. That's why I like the line, "Mothers who know do less." I think this also teachers our children that parents have feelings and interests too. My mom told me one day, "I don't want to be your taxi!" So I rode my bike to my friend's house. Also, she didn't buy us things unless it was a holiday. We saved our allowance for the things we wanted. I think this made us more grateful for the things we had. She also put on very nice music, she gave us lots of attention, played games with us, had us cook with her, and I just couldn't imagine what my life would've been like if I had come home to no one.

My mom was also happy to have our friends come over to play. They always felt welcome and loved.

[Alaskagain]

I really liked the Sister Beck's talk.

I find myself ironing more.

[PinkPanther]

I absolutely loved her talk. It was inspiring and uplifting. I must admit that I did not read the entire thread.... However, I think with the deterioration of the family these days, there is a strong need for mothers and fathers to fulfill the roles assigned them. Read The Family, A Proclamation To the World. If there is something distracting you and taking away from your role, it needs to be reconsidered as a priority. This could mean different things for different families. I also think that many people need to figure out what is important. Does Mom have a second job to put food on the table, or is it some material thing? Does Mom need a second job to fulfill herself, or does it fulfill the whole family? Every situation is different.

I am pregnant with my first baby and we are living off of my husbands meager salary. I haven't worked in about a year, and I can tell you that it gets seriously dull around here. I know that having kids will be a bit more exciting, but I also have friends that just do the same thing over and over and over, and it's mundane for them. I will be home with the kids until they are able to start school. I will then look into getting a fulfilling job. But if I want the joys of motherhood and the responsibility, then I need to make the sacrifice of myself. I don't care how anyone wants to justify it, but a mother in the home is way more beneficial to the children than sending them to a daycare or somewhere else. I guess I think, if you don't want to make the sacrifice, then you shouldn't have kids.

As you can tell, I'm feeling a bit feisty right now. I don't mean to offend anyone, but this is just what I beleive. Take it or leave it!

[havejoy]

Having children is the most important calling we'll ever have. I had to work while my children were growing up (single mom) and I can look back and see the gaping holes this created in their lives as well as mine.

[Vanessa2]

Alaskagain,

We all need goals... :)

[Rebmik]

I thought Sister Beck's talk was wonderful. I admire the plain-speaking and appreciate the moral courage it took to deliver such a strong message. She was assigned to give a talk at General Conference by the General Authorities, under the direction of and with the approval of the First Presidency. She is accountable for having delivered the message she was assigned. She fulfilled her responsibility. It is sad that some were offended. I suspect that some of the individuals Noah warned were offended, too.

[Guest Leeanntheonetwo]

I for one am looking forward to having children of my own one day. As a woman I feel it will be my greatest calling. When the time is right I will trade in my job for my family.

Leeann

[Palerider]

I thought her talk as I mentioned earlier was awesome. I am really surprised that we are still talking about it today. She must have really hit the mark with her talk.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Good point Palerider - a lot of other talks which raised no discussion whatsoever because everyone felt comfortable with what was said have probably been totally forgotten by now.

[Moksha]

You got to hand it to June Cleaver for always being home to help take care of Wally and the Beaver, and make sure they had cake and milk after school.

It was Ward's job to bring home the bacon and June's job to fry it up in the pan. Later on they might turn on the TV and watch Eisenhower say something really important. Of course, none of that on nights where the Cleaver family huddled around the fire and enjoyed Family Home Evening.