The "Only true and living church" vs "The most correct of any church".


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As I've mentioned before, two of the most hateful, bigoted, and willfully ignorant people I have ever had the misfortune of encountering had doctoral degrees in their chosen fields. 

One was an avowed atheist with a degree in the social sciences. 

The other was a minister with a theological degree. 

Both of them regarded their doctorate as a shield of invulnerability. In their eyes, that they had a doctorate meant that they were all-knowing and all-powerful. In their eyes, anyone who lacked a college degree had no right to speak to them unless it was to kiss their ring or serve them somehow... and even then, no one with anything less than a graduate degree had any right to ask them questions. 

Their incredible arrogance meant that they actually only had a handful of stock arguments and "evidences" for their various positions on different topics, and they kept going right back to them no matter how many times those arguments and "evidences" were debunked; after all, they reasoned, someone who was "below" them was doing it and so how could that person be correct? 

When they were backed into a corner and shown how, in ways they could not deny, they were wrong, they inevitably threw a childish temper tantrum, often involving expletives. After all, they had a doctorate, so how could they be wrong? 

They failed to understand that "evolve or die" is a critical part of academia, and part of that evolution means admitting when one is wrong so that one can fix that flaw.

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2 hours ago, Ironhold said:

As I've mentioned before, two of the most hateful, bigoted, and willfully ignorant people I have ever had the misfortune of encountering had doctoral degrees in their chosen fields. 

One was an avowed atheist with a degree in the social sciences. 

The other was a minister with a theological degree. 

So, then, not real degrees. 😋

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3 hours ago, Ironhold said:

Both of them regarded their doctorate as a shield of invulnerability. In their eyes, that they had a doctorate meant that they were all-knowing and all-powerful. In their eyes, anyone who lacked a college degree had no right to speak to them unless it was to kiss their ring or serve them somehow... and even then, no one with anything less than a graduate degree had any right to ask them questions. 

 

IMG_0320.jpeg.3fa2d004da6618a871908434fbfe3287.jpeg

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On 2/9/2024 at 7:36 AM, prisonchaplain said:

Yes, many non-LDS (especially us Evangelicals) get caught up in claims of "the only true church." To my ears, "only living church" should be just as provocative.

"...the only true and living Church..."

A rifle that fires true is one that, in the hands of a skilled user, will hit the target it is aimed at.

Living water is water that flows, that moves, that does not stagnate, that is constantly being tumbled and refreshed by its river bed.

The Church's full name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That last part is vital. Not only do we serve in the kingdom of Jesus Christ under the name of Jesus Christ, but we are required, indeed commanded, to be holy. And who is the Holy One of Israel? That would be Jesus Christ. So we are commanded not merely to do some good works, not only to offer ovations and oblations to the Most High God, but in a real sense, to fulfill Jesus' commandment in Matthew 5:48 and become like God (Jesus) by being perfect: Perfectly sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

As I'm sure many of you know, the word Saint comes from the Latin sanctus, meaning holy. The words Sacred, Sacrifice, Sacrilege, and many others arise from this same root, and all have to do with holiness or the desecration thereof. We are to be holy—Saints of the Lord Jesus Christ, achieved through our sanctification by His blood.

I think the name of the Restored Church of Christ and the description given of that holy kingdom is one of the most sacred truths vouchsafed to us as Saints. Let us be quick to sing the praises of Zion and very slow indeed to find fault with it or its anointed leaders. In this, I remind myself as much as anyone else here.

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23 minutes ago, Vort said:

I just realized that the solution to your troubles with you cat is contained within his name: Walk Klaw.

:) I try, but it's too cold for either of us to stay out more than a few minutes, and then he's just frustrated.  Also, when we go outside, he wants to hunt the birdies (which are only here because I got a bird feeder so he'd have birdies to watch), and I won't let him hunt the birdies.  Further, it appears that I scare the birdies away long before he does - I'm reasonably certain he's doing the cat equivalent of rolling his eyes at me: "You're a lousy hunter, Meowmy."

(At some point not that long after I got him, I realized that his name was "walk" backwards - that wasn't intentional.  I have found a new way to keep him entertained - I'm teaching him to do "high fives" and "fist bumps" :D - though he doesn't make a fist, just pats my fist with his paw.)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I came in late to the conversation,but here goes:

The basic takeaways I've been getting from the Church on these controversial issues are:

*Be kind to everybody

*Witness where/to whom you feel comfortable

*Worry about your own temple worthiness and let the leaders worry about others

ZealouslyStriving (Mosiah 27:35)

 

Edited by ZealoulyStriving
Grammar
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13 minutes ago, ZealoulyStriving said:

I came in late to the conversation,but here goes:

The basic takeaways I've been getting from the Church on these controversial issues are:

*Be kind to everybody

*Witness where/to whom you feel comfortable

*Worry about your own temple worthiness and let the leaders worry about others

ZealouslyStriving (Mosiah 27:35)

 

Welcome to the forums. 
 

Excellent summary 

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I will add what I have come to believe to this thread – for what it is worth.  I believe that the logic for one true and living church is no different from the logic used for the doctrine that there is only one true and living G-d.

There are, in my mind, many misconceptions both in attempts to explain what is true and living as there is in understanding what is and what divergent thinkers say on the subject.  Here is my effort.  If there is a true a living G-d – that being is the supreme Suzerain of law and order, especially the law and order of the kingdom over which that being resides.  Note that the term “Kingdom” is not my term, but the term used in scripture to describe that which G-d defines as his standard for his realm.

 I understand that we are flawed beings and therefore have flawed understanding of things.  Especially things pertaining to G-d and his kingdom.  It is my understanding that because we are flawed beings what happens between birth and death of any individual is not sufficient to understand or prepare for that which is eternal.  This is a primary reason why I understand the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and temple work and worship to be the only true and living church on the earth.  It is the only church doing work to redeem the dead and seal on earth that which will be sealed in Heaven.  It is also the only church I have encountered that has a good grasp on why there must be a pre-earth life existence as there needs to be post-earth live existence to prepare for eternity (though some come somewhat close).

There is one other principle in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that I believe demonstrates why it is the only true and living expression of the true and living G-d on this earth and realm of fallen beings but that is another discussion that ties into this principle that I have already presented.  Such that if one is doubtful of what has been described thus far – there is no logic to continue.

 

The Traveler

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On 2/27/2024 at 2:00 PM, prisonchaplain said:

Those who succeed in walking in holiness and offer lives and voices that praise Jesus--all while being cautious about finding fault--such folk are likely to bring many along on their coat tails. 

I understand that many are striving to do good things and I do not want to criticize any efforts, but the truth is that the only true and living coat tails capable of bringing soles (even their own) into heaven are those of Jesus Christ. 

 

The Traveler

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3 hours ago, Traveler said:

I understand that many are striving to do good things and I do not want to criticize any efforts, but the truth is that the only true and living coat tails capable of bringing soles (even their own) into heaven are those of Jesus Christ. 

 

The Traveler

Amen. "Every member a missionary." Every disciple a representative of his/her Master. If a lost soul is to encounter Jesus it will often be through us. 

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On 2/11/2024 at 7:47 PM, mikbone said:

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I don't necessarily argue with this. However, I remember the saying, "The favorite doesn't always win but it's still the best bet." Those who give themselves over to the discipline of formal study have a higher chance of exhibiting intelligence than those who won't. 

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