Are you prepared for continued high inflation?


repeal17thamendment
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Color me unimpressed. I'm unimpressed with the survivalist Joel Skousen, and his outdated fallout shelter advocacy. I'm unimpressed... I will continue to contentedly slave away as a tool of The Man , pleased with the ability to invest in my 401K with company match, like I've done for the last 10 years, against the passionate ravings of the tinfoil hat brigade.

Please feel free to reply with insults like "blinder-wearing", "ostritch", or whatever strikes your fancy.

I'm not impressed.

LM

wow... I have just read this entire thread and all I can say is WOW. That was so much FUN! I feel like I really learned something. Loudmouth is kewl as a cucumber... sharp witted, sharp tongued completely reasonable! CjCampbell was VERY informative!!! Honestly... that was an incredible slur of words that served purpose. This gal feels a wee bit more informed! Keep talking....

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Color me unimpressed. I'm unimpressed with the survivalist Joel Skousen, and his outdated fallout shelter advocacy. I'm unimpressed with the faulty, hole-ridden attempts to paint impending financial doom. I'm unimpressed with your grasp on what the billions spent on Iraq supposedly mean to our economic system. I'm unimpressed with this conspiracy-theory mentality of how "they" are all out to get "you", but "they" can't hide any more, because you're here to tell us about it. I've been personally hearing this tune for two decades from folks of your stripe. And always, the illuminati, the one world order, the global administrative districting, the secret combinations, the communists never manage to show up, even though you eventually type in ALL CAPS to emphasize your point, and insult Canadian currency.

I do not find your rhetoric persuasive. I do not buy your doomsday scnarios. I will not be buying gold at record high prices. I will continue to contentedly slave away as a tool of The Man , pleased with the ability to invest in my 401K with company match, like I've done for the last 10 years, against the passionate ravings of the tinfoil hat brigade.

Please feel free to reply with insults like "blinder-wearing", "ostritch", or whatever strikes your fancy.

I'm not impressed.

LM

Philistine
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  • 4 weeks later...

Dear unimpressed Rebky,

Time will tell. But history is not in your favor. Have you noticed the value of the dollar lately? Your starting to get behind. The dollar is worth 4cents in 1913 dollars and has lost 20% in the last couple of years. Gold has gone from $275 to $950 in the last couple of years. So hang on to those 401K dollars as you will need all you can gather.

BB

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Dear unimpressed Rebky,

I'm the unimpressed one, BBBB.

Time will tell. But history is not in your favor.

That is not true. Average return for the stock market has been 12% over the last 30 years. Inflation averages around 2.5% or so.

Stock source

Inflation source

Have you noticed the value of the dollar lately? Your starting to get behind. The dollar is worth 4cents in 1913 dollars and has lost 20% in the last couple of years. Gold has gone from $275 to $950 in the last couple of years. So hang on to those 401K dollars as you will need all you can gather.

I'm not impressed by vague portents of doom by someone who doesn't understand historical averages, but can point to the impact of a normal recession cycle.

I won't be selling low. I won't be buying gold high. I won't be buying survivalist bomb shelter property in Colorado. I won't be subscribing to outdated milleniumist hysteria. However, if the rest of the market would like to engage in such practices, I'm more than happy to buy stock throughout the panicky low prices, and ride them back up on the other side. Still 20 years away from retirement, ya know...

LM

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I can see you don't understand yet. The history is that fiat money always fails and goes to zero because it is only paper and back by nothing. You are holding onto a bunch of federal resere notes. Do you know what a bank note is?

BB

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I can see you don't understand yet.

Oh, I understand where you're coming from, I just am not buying it. Because no, not every paper currency system fails. Some have failed, many haven't. People of your persuasion seem to be of the opinion that the only difference between a failed system and a working one, is the working one hasn't failed yet. Only problem is, our system has consistently failed to fail for, what, 95 years now? Over the decades, I've been told multiple times by folks of your persuasion that our system is in it's death throes. I've been personally warned half a dozen times since the '80's that NOW is the time to convert all assets to tangible barter goods or gold or survivalist land. You've always been wrong before, and I'm relatively sure you're wrong this time too.

So here's the deal - your prophetic voice of warning is falling on deaf ears. I've hardened my heart against you and your kind. I intend to now march, whistling and lemminglike, to my eventual demise at the hands of my evil federal reserve shadowy overlords. And there's nothing you can do about it. Because unfortunately, despite all your passion, all your certainty, you never manage to rise to the point of being persuasive or convincing.

The only thing you can do now is place a bet with me. Give me a date when our economy should have collapsed. I'll bet it will still be humming along. What is your date and your wager?

LM

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I can see you are a very short sighted person. Yes fiat money has failed every time in history. You must study to find this out. There is an old saying that a man convinced against his will is of the same opinioin still. I am not going to try to convince you about fiat money as I don't care if you end up broke as that is your decisiion. It may well be a good lesson to help you in the future. I also have not seen any prophet put a time line on what they say. Sence I am not a prophet I certainly won't put a time line on what I say. I just understand money. But this I will say. You will see the dollar fail. It will not be too many years until it does. And I also can say to you that you do not understand what money is either. The federal reserve note is just that. A note or an instrument of indebtedness. There is a reason that the founding fathers wrote in the constitution that only gold and silver will be used as money in the united states. The founding fathers understood money and untill you understand money you will end up broke. As I say time will tell.

BB

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I can see you are a very short sighted person ... I don't care if you end up broke ... you do not understand what money is ... untill you understand money you will end up broke...

Thank you for a very representative smattering of what I've been hearing from you people ever since the mid 1980's. About the only things missing were typing in all caps, and the word "ostrich".

LM

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What is the difference between a sudden flash flood caused by a river going beyond its bounds and a slow shift in the river over a period of years? If the same plain is flooded, the only difference is the time we have to escape the flood.

Just the same, we may not wake up in the morning to a sudden flood of dollars into the economy that will wash us all out, but we have had a sustained growth in the flood of dollars for almost 100 years now. What used to cost Granddad four cents requires a dollar today.

Is it unwise for us to consider this long term inflation in our planning for the future? Protection against inflation is a subject spoken of by financial planners and advisers the world over. It would be a real disappointment to save and invest over a lifetime only to end up with less value than what was put into savings.

Now, deflation is something that we need to be mindful of as well. However, we shouldn't expect any long term deflation with the FED system we have. The overall effort of the FED has always yielded inflation.

The overall average inflation over the last 100 years has been just over 3% annually. However, there have been times where the rate has been much higher. Some of the debate today deals with gauging that rate. Various analysts offer different opinions. Some are claiming inflation has been as high as 10% in the last few years.

Gas prices in the U.S. have doubled in the last 8 years, and are up 300% from 1990. Many other commodities have seen similar hikes. At least computers are cheaper.

Virtually every product I sell in my shop (a skateboard and clothing shop), has seen strong increases in wholesale prices since 2000. One of the only hedges against that trend has been outsourcing. However, the Chinese prices are approaching what American prices used to be in my industry and talk of going to other nations is already in the wind. Polyurethane wheels (which are petrol based) have seen the most dramatic increase in pricing.

The fact is, the sky IS falling. It just isn't free falling, it is coming down slowly. The flood is actually rising, but slowly.

Those silver bugs that hoarded all the silver coinage in the 60's have been vindicated in their efforts thus far. The pocket change of dimes, quarters, and half dollars dropped into a jar at the end of the day and saved until now have a current melt value worth 14 times their face value. Those mid 40's silver nickels are worth over 22 times their face value. Those Morgan and Peace dollars are worth over 15 times their face value. And all of this is simply the melt value, it is to say nothing of any collector value.

The dollar's decline resulted in a zinc penny in 1982. The actual copper pennies from 1909-1982 have a melt value of 2.5 cents. This has actually triggered copper hoarding. Look at this: 5 lbs. copper Lincoln memorial cents ($7.50 ) bullion - eBay (item 360027973416 end time Mar-03-08 07:36:26 PST) Copper pennies in bulk are actually going for MORE than their face value on ebay.

The unfortunate reality of inflation has been later retirement and a constant struggle to maintain wage to cost of living ratios. The problem is most harmful to the poor, especially the poor elderly. The root cause of this issue has been the over spending and over borrowing of government and major corporate and industrial entities.

Is this not true?

-a-train

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I thought maybe the second time would help you understand ..... well maybe not but you are right maybe Ostrich would be appropriate . I can see you are a very short sighted person. Yes fiat money has failed every time in history. You must study to find this out. There is an old saying that a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. I am not going to try to convince you about fiat money as I don't care if you end up broke as that is your decision. It may well be a good lesson to help you in the future. I also have not seen any prophet put a time line on what they say. Since I am not a prophet I certainly won't put a time line on what I say. I just understand money. But this I will say. You will see the dollar fail. It will not be too many years until it does. And I also can say to you that you do not understand what money is either. The federal reserve note is just that. A note or an instrument of indebtedness. There is a reason that the founding fathers wrote in the constitution that only gold and silver will be used as money in the united states. The founding fathers understood money and until you understand money you will end up broke. As I say time will tell.

BB

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Is it unwise for us to consider this long term inflation in our planning for the future?

Of course not. It is very important to consider inflation. But that's not what I'm reacting against. I'm reacting against our friends repeal17thamendment and BBB's alarmist paroxysms. I'm reacting against the claims that we're swiftly headed towards great calamity and wailing and teeth gnashing. These claims are supported in this thread by very little.

Now, deflation is something that we need to be mindful of as well. However, we shouldn't expect any long term deflation with the FED system we have. The overall effort of the FED has always yielded inflation.

Agreed.

Virtually every product I sell in my shop (a skateboard and clothing shop), has seen strong increases in wholesale prices since 2000. One of the only hedges against that trend has been outsourcing. However, the Chinese prices are approaching what American prices used to be in my industry and talk of going to other nations is already in the wind. Polyurethane wheels (which are petrol based) have seen the most dramatic increase in pricing.

In my industry (high tech instrumentation), we're very aware of these trends as well. China, Malaysia, Singapore - they're all catching up at one rate or another.

The fact is, the sky IS falling. It just isn't free falling, it is coming down slowly. The flood is actually rising, but slowly.

Again, I reject such alarmist talk. You and I are looking at the same data points, and yet one of us is at the verge of panic, one is not. No, the sky is not falling. We're showing signs of starting a normal cyclical recession, the dollar and the market have been falling. The housing situation is a bona-fide crisis, akin to the S&L crisis of the '80's. We've weathered similar groupings of bad news in the past, and we'll weather this one too. And I plan on doing it without buying gold or silver at record highs.

The unfortunate reality of inflation has been later retirement and a constant struggle to maintain wage to cost of living ratios. The problem is most harmful to the poor, especially the poor elderly.

Hang on there - this 'unfortunate reality' comes to those who spent their saving years ignorantly or foolishly.

The root cause of this issue has been the over spending and over borrowing of government and major corporate and industrial entities.

Is this not true?

It is true. We all need to be aware of these forces, and how they shape our financial lives. A plan to beat inflation is essential to every retirement plan.

No, the sky is not falling. No, it's not time to refuse to play the game because of fears about fiat currency. No, we should not panic. We should learn, and plan. If you've never started a 401K plan, now is the perfect time to do it - during a recession cycle. The shares you'll buy today will ride up the end of the recession and be worth much more than if you refuse to invest until the recession is over.

Be educated. Plan. But don't panic.

LM

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Hay loudmouth,

I agree with 90% of what you said. Don't panic just prepare. I think you just over reacted to what I said. And you shouldn't have all your eggs in one basket. And 5% in metals is not a bad idea as you may think, It's a different basket and it has never gone to Zero as it has intrinsic value.

BB

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WOW you guys have helped me lot. I think I choose the middle road a and take some of what all of you say to heart. Financial disasters aren't gonna come as a blanket over the land but in smaller disasters. Being prepared for the hard times whatever they may be is a good thing . Great hearing all your opinions keep up the great input.

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  • 11 months later...

[LM using his incredible power to resurrect dead threads]: BUMP

I remembered this thread recently, and thought I'd revisit it and see how all the opinions have done in the last year. This thread started in Jan 08 and ended in Mar 08. A lot has happened since then, and the opinion casters and predictors in this thread (myself included) can count a number of wins and a number of losses.

Anyone want to add their two cents? Or modify/recant on any predictions or worldviews?

LM

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  • 4 months later...

I just couldn't resist another thread bump.

Yesterday, the meager LM financial empire (a 401k account and some kid college savings) returned to profitability. We are now up .7%. I'm glad I continued my meager stock purchases through this economic downturn - I bought much more shares that way, because they were the low priced stocks everyone was fleeing from.

And, as a comment on the title of this thread, inflation has not done what these doomsayers had predicted (source: InflationData.com. Historically, inflation is around 2.5%. Guess what the average rate has been since this thread opened in Jan '08? 2.46%. We've had near zero or negative inflation for the last five months straight.

My opinion in Jan'08, was to dismiss doomsayers who use ALLCAPS with a wave of my uppity hand. My opinion hasn't changed.

LM

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Several years ago, a prominent L.D.S. patriot named Joel Skousen made the astute observation that the government was systematically lying and that inflation was actually into double digits. All one has to do is watch how government alters the CPI (consumer price index) and the PPI (producer price index) and how they make their biased calculations. Joel continued to document this as the REAL inflation rate stayed more than double of what government was claiming. Fast forward to now where for the last few months, every financial news source has been forced to admit that inflation is just raging. The government is still lying about the true inflation rate, but the cat is finally out of the bag. It simply became impossible to hide what all americans were seeing: that nearly everything at the grocery store had already gone up (at least once), that gasoline and natural gas prices had dramatically risen and set new baselines, and that gold just would not stop skyrocketing.

So what's causing the runaway inflation? Two billion per week in "eye rack" is the chief cause, and the worst part is most americans are totally ignorant of the fact that dollars spent on iraq are ALL OFF BUDGET. This means that the real budget deficit is just off the charts. Then you have the fact that the satanic forces who control our fiat "money" system have continued to pump insane amounts of cash into several parts of the economy to attempt to keep it from collapsing and waking americans up to the reality of just how bad these people really are.

What can you do? Well, it's almost too late to purchase gold to take advantage of the main runup. You should have bought gold when it was only $290 per ounce, but now that it's almost NINE HUNDRED DOLLARS an ounce :eek:, gold will only protect you against future runaway inflation (which is happening as we speak).

In short, bush and his handlers in combination with the secret combination that controls the banking system have utterly killed the dollar. I'm amazed that there is not massive protests outside the white house and capitol now that the Canadian "looney" is worth MORE than your dollar.

It's also almost too late to sell property if you need to. I remember hearing Joel Skousen 2 and 3 years ago, warning his subscribers that if they need to sell property, that they'd better hurry up and do it. Now foreclosures have been on the news for months.

I suggest getting some usable silver, such as morgans or "peace" silver dollars. If you have cash to invest, find a way to get into gold or your savings will be eaten alive by the INDIRECT TAX known as inflation.

In reality, most economic gurus knew this back in 2003 and made mentioned that a housing crash was coming first then an energy change on how it will be marketed like GOLD and will cause more economic chaos in a short few years. This is really old news and it came to pass.

As I stated back then, along with a few others who watched the numbers and patterns came to the same conclusion, it is not going to get any better. I am with Apostle Boyd K. Packer on this one...[so many words] prepare for greater disasters to come.

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I just couldn't resist another thread bump.

Yesterday, the meager LM financial empire (a 401k account and some kid college savings) returned to profitability. We are now up .7%. I'm glad I continued my meager stock purchases through this economic downturn - I bought much more shares that way, because they were the low priced stocks everyone was fleeing from.

And, as a comment on the title of this thread, inflation has not done what these doomsayers had predicted (source: InflationData.com. Historically, inflation is around 2.5%. Guess what the average rate has been since this thread opened in Jan '08? 2.46%. We've had near zero or negative inflation for the last five months straight.

My opinion in Jan'08, was to dismiss doomsayers who use ALLCAPS with a wave of my uppity hand. My opinion hasn't changed.

LM

Too bad the jobs are not in this listing of problems. No matter who or what is propping the stock markets, jobs are still loosing ground. We could also talk about consumer spending....:)

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Thank you for a very representative smattering of what I've been hearing from you people ever since the mid 1980's. About the only things missing were typing in all caps, and the word "ostrich".

LM

I hesitantly must agree at least somewhat with some of what has been said here, LM, though for entirely different reasons than has been said.

In 1999, two high ranking Chinese diplomats wrote a book called 'Unrestricted Warfare' which basically delineated how they would deal with a superior power if it came down to warfare.

Unrestricted Warfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(I know, Wikipedia, but it's the easiest thing to point you to for a basic rundown).

Basically, China argued that if they ever planned on going to war with the US, they would first cause a financial crisis:

FT.com / Americas - Brazil and China eye plan to axe dollar

China has the greatest reserves of US cash currently.

They would hack in to the infrastructure to maximize anarchy:

China's computer hacking worries Pentagon - Los Angeles Times

And they would go to war.

China has very simply been eyeing Taiwan for a very long time and, back in 2001, said they would go to war with Taiwan(An American ally) if they didn't rejoin by 2010.

They have had an unprecedented military buildup recently and have engaged in military maneuvers with Russia as part of their military alliance in the Shanghai Five.

http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2001/0504china_gill.aspx

Russia has invaded a US ally: Georgia, and suffered little to no repercussions for it and all international indications suggest that China is willing to make good on its threat. That would certainly be a catastrophic war. Russia believes it is invincible currently, which is adding to the edgy international mood.

I certainly can't guarantee that this will happen, nor do I suggest that money is worthless, but with the current lending climate and climbing debt, if China chose to strike now, you would face spiralling inflation the likes of which the US has never seen. I would suggest prudence in the market right now - Invest what you can, collect food storage. If the absolute best happens and this current international climate goes away, you have wisely avoided debt and also have concrete savings. If not, you are prepared for the worst.

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I just couldn't resist another thread bump.

Yesterday, the meager LM financial empire (a 401k account and some kid college savings) returned to profitability. We are now up .7%. I'm glad I continued my meager stock purchases through this economic downturn - I bought much more shares that way, because they were the low priced stocks everyone was fleeing from.

And, as a comment on the title of this thread, inflation has not done what these doomsayers had predicted (source: InflationData.com. Historically, inflation is around 2.5%. Guess what the average rate has been since this thread opened in Jan '08? 2.46%. We've had near zero or negative inflation for the last five months straight.

My opinion in Jan'08, was to dismiss doomsayers who use ALLCAPS with a wave of my uppity hand. My opinion hasn't changed.

LM

I waited until the end of January to start buying stocks, the DOW dropped from around 12,000 to around 8,000 from March '08 to January. I'm glad I got to miss that. While the CPI is in retreat, I don't chock that up to good policy. In fact, the FED has done all it can to prevent it. I do still anticipate an ultimate CPI hike. This won't happen until deleveraging slows. I am still extremely bullish on oil. I've bought some oil stocks and ETFs. I am still also bullish on commodities.

While the Dollar index had a huge rally late last year, it has fallen almost to where it was in March '08, with a 13% drop just since Jan. The Dollar lost 26% against the Australian Dollar just since February. It lost 30% in the same period against the New Zealand Kiwi. Thus, the increases in the DOW have been no better than simply putting cash in an Australian savings account which has interest rates above 5%, while currently the DOW yield is only 3%.

Is inflation still over the horizon? Definitely.

-a-train

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So whats this thread about?

The fed reserve is no more federal then federal express. This is true as i have searched and searched on the web the evidence hat is clear. our goverment does not control the federal reserve. It is own by private bankers who yes do make money off of us and WAR but most importantly control our goverment.

Lets see what is going on while everyone is into there'on demand' or direct tv watching entertainment or mainstream media which i do not listen too cause if they were to be trusted then this stuff would be on tv.

This is what goes one while that happens.

listen to the whole video then at 1:35 bernarke says that if we audit the fed economic problems will result.

Hammering on Bernarnke by dennis kucinich with proof with emails.. This ones you have to watch.

from Cspan

YouTube - Congressman Kucinich Questions Ben Bernanke (Round 2)

Bernanke getting mopped again by people who know how finances work

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another one great one. We need more congress men like this and people like us support people like this because they are for us not the goverment

This one is great too

Half way through Dennis Kucinich gets upset telling them why they cheated the people who help us like teachers,firefighters,police office and why they got cheated out of money im telling you this one great.

YouTube - Kucinich: This is NOT acceptable!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Let me clarify my position a little. Nothing in my post was meant as a response or counter arguement, or even an alternative viewpoint. I'm merely stating that I don't find your argument or worldview persuasive, I reject many of your sources, and I reject your suggestions.

Not sure what you mean by "singular". Are you claiming the BoM says all of the SC's mentioned are 'the same'? Surely, they've been with us from time to time since Cain. The Jaredites had them, they were active 50-ish years before Christ's birth, and 80 years later right before Christ's arrival in the Americas. Nephi and Moroni both make prophecies that SC's will be around. 2 Nephi 9 discusses SC's as one of the things Satan tries to stir us up into doing.

I don't see anything about how they're all the same SC though. Is that what you're saying, or am I missing your question?

Regardless, I'm not denying the existence (former or current) of sc's. I am rejecting Joel Skousen's claim that I need to sell my property. I'm rejecting your advice that I need to buy silver coins and "the end is near". I do not believe that "bush and his handlers in combination with the secret combination that controls the banking system have utterly killed the dollar." It's obviously not true, because the dollar has not been "utterly killed".

I'm not angry, and I'm not in denial about the works of darkness. I'm just rejecting your opinion about how they're organized, and what I need to do about it.

In the two decades I've been rejecting your message of impending doom and conspiracies at the highest levels of government, here's the list of insults leveled at me:

Ostrich with head buried in the sand.

In denial.

I chose to wear blinders.

Blind idiot who can't see my own hand in front of my face in broad daylight.

Dupe of [whatever term is being used to describe the current conspirators].

I'll add your insults (and A-Train's) to the list:

I focus on the MESSENGER instead of the subject.

I consider myself "super tough" .

I use emotion instead of logical reasoning.

I'm rude.

I get angry when someone mentions the existence of secret combinations.

My posts make me look bad.

I "troll for sincere people".

I'm prideful, heading for destruction.

I have a haughty spirit, and I'm heading for a fall.

Again, color me unimpressed.

LM

Im new here but I am highly impressed at how accurate peoples names are on this forum.

I applaud you on your great selection of names. It fits.

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