Men and God: The Same Species


DrewM
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This is one of my resent posts on my blog Strong Reasons. Tell me what you think.

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Paul tells us in Acts 17:22-29 basic nature of God and our relationship to him. Please read carefully.

" Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device. "

Now, may I ask, Paul, why shouldn't we think of God as gold, silver, or stone, etc? What is the logic in your statement?

I think Paul would say "We are God's offspring. We are, therefore, what he is. He is what we are. Therefore, we shouldn't think of him as anything else like gold, silver, or something created by man." That's what this scripture seems to say to me in very plain terms.

Now, if we're the offspring of God, he cannot be anything but what we are! His logic is as clear as can be. To interpret any other way is to destroy the meaning of his logic.

Further, God is not "unknown" or unknowable like the Athens thought. Many today also teach that he is unknowable, or inconceivable by nature. Does this imply that the mainstream Christian idea of God as being inconceivable or unknowable is derived from the Greek world of thought?

Lastly, Paul argues that we are God's offspring (Greek: genos!) and therefore we ought not think he is like silver, or gold. What should we think of him as then? The implication is perfectly clear. If we are his genos (Latin genus, English, "species") then we ought to think that he is basically like us in his nature. We are of the same species.

The Geneva Bible translates it "generation." Generation is a word derived from "genus." Genus has to do with origin usually in the sense of a child has his origin in his parent.

For fun, here are some other languages:

genus ergo cum simus Dei non debemus aestimare auro aut argento aut lapidi sculpturae artis et cogitationis hominis divinum esse simile (Latin)

Siendo pues linaje de Dios, no hemos de estimar la Divinidad ser semejante a oro, o a plata, o a piedra, escultura de artificio o de imaginación de hombres. (Reina Valera, Spanish)

Sendo nós, pois, geração de Deus, não devemos pensar que a divindade seja semelhante ao ouro, ou à prata, ou à pedra esculpida pela arte e imaginação do homem. (PJFA)

Essendo dunque progenie di Dio, non dobbiam credere che la Divinità sia simile ad oro, ad argento, o a pietra scolpiti dall'arte e dall'immaginazione umana. (Italian, IRL)

γενος ουν υπαρχοντες του θεου ουκ οφειλομεν νομιζειν χρυσω η αργυρω η λιθω χαραγματι τεχνης και ενθυμησεως ανθρωπου το θειον ειναι ομοιον (Greek)

Since this appears to be the plain and obvious meaning of the verse, could we say that Paul believed that men are gods by nature? Do you accept Paul's teaching, or do you prefer the Greek understanding of God as being "unknown" and totally other?

I've always been impressed by this scripture and see it as one of the greatest Biblical evidences for the basic tenet of Mormonism, namely the nature of God and man.

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God gave us life, in the spiritual sense. he created us. when we have a child, we create a life in the physical body. i dont know how much more you can be like God here, now.

"For behold this is my work and my glory - to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (moses 1:39) as parents we need to teach our children how to act. we should teach them how to love, not hate. Christ loved everyone. and now he is immortal and has eternal life. if we can teach our children how to be Christ-like then that is bringing "to pass the immortality and eternal life of man"

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expanding upon love, one of the pharisees ask Christ.

"Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus said unto him, thou shalt love the Lord the God with all thy heart, and with all the soul, and with all thy mind.

this is the first and great commandment

and the second one is like unto it, thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (matt 22:36-40)

love is the best thing we can do for anyone. sometimes it is hard to love because we get hurt. but that is how we grow and learn. always smile and turn the other cheek.

"but i say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (matt 5:44-45)

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This question is the crux of what separates LDS from Protestants and Catholics. Whether the Trinity is true, whether we shall become gods, whether we have a premortal existence--all of these nip and the BIG QUESTION--you sir, have captured it. The LDS answer is yes, the rest of us say no. Kudos on finding the linchpin.

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if you would have included verse 16 t0 21 in your passage it would show that you are misinterpreting this.. or atleast I think you are.

The verses immediately preceding what you wrote talk about Paul coming into the area and being greatly distressed at the city being full of idols, being made of all the materials you mentioned. He reasons with the people saying that they don't even know who they are worshipping ( Ie: to the unknownn God), and that God is bigger than all of the precious metals and he wants nothing man can make as he is God and can make what he wishes if he so desires it. He then finishes by saying that God created man and gave man his breath, and says to the Greeks that some of thier own poets refer to us as God's offspring - (which is safe to say as many refer "poetically" to God as their own Heavenly Father.)

I don't see how you got that Man is God, and God is man out of that passage..

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He is not our Brother in my opinion . He is our Heavenly Father's son, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

On the contrary, it is written (Hebrews 2:11-12) "For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee."

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On the contrary, it is written (Hebrews 2:11-12) "For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee."

While you might be technically right, I'd suggest that Jesus and we are bretheren, in the same way that you are I are brother and sister. :cool:

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Jesus stands alone, though, as the only begotten of God. So, maybe I could say that Jesus is my foster brother?

I believe that God, in addition to being Jesus' spirit father, also was his physical, or earthly, father. I believe the meaning is that Jesus is the only begotten of the Father in the flesh on this earth. Jesus is still my literal spirit brother, and I am still a literal Child of God.

You, PC, as painful to you as the thought may be, are literally my brother, we are both descended from the same spirit father. That's one of the reasons why in the LDS church we address each other as Brother or Sister So-and-So.

So just remember, when you think you're being a burden to us LDS, You're not heavy, you're our brother. :D:D:D

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You, PC, as painful to you as the thought may be, are literally my brother, we are both descended from the same spirit father.

There is that, and our common ancestry through Adam & Eve & Noah.

That's one of the reasons why in the LDS church we address each other as Brother or Sister So-and-So.

So just remember, when you think you're being a burden to us LDS, You're not heavy, you're our brother. :D:D:D

That's a custom that is practiced throughout the Christian world, I believe. It's so much more personal than "Comrade," too. :P

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On the contrary, it is written (Hebrews 2:11-12) "For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee."

Excellent!! :) I never thought of referring to Jesus as my Brother before - that is a really cool verse! Thank you :)

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this is my understanding of us being offspring of God. we are commanded to be born again, through the spirit. once we are born again, we become the adopted children of God.

romans 8: 14-16

"14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God"

2 corinthians 6:16-18

"16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

so, i don't think that God and his wife literally created us in heaven as a man and woman create a child. i don't believe that God the father literally came down to earth and slept with mary in order to create jesus, as some of the early church leaders taught. i believe that once a believer is born again and receives in him the spirit of the lord, then he/she is an adopted son/daughter of the lord. then are we His offspring, because we were born again in Him.

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this is my understanding of us being offspring of God. we are commanded to be born again, through the spirit. once we are born again, we become the adopted children of God.

You believe that God adopts us if we become born again, as quid pro quo, something in payment for something. I believe we are born again because God adopts us, gratis, on the house.

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You believe that God adopts us if we become born again, as quid pro quo, something in payment for something. I believe we are born again because God adopts us, gratis, on the house.

Do you mean by this that everyone is adopted by God? "Born again," comes to us by grace, through our embrace. If even our acceptance is considered a work, and God adopts us 'for free'--then, everyone gets it? Or...is this the Calvinist idea that God chooses who will be saved, based only on his mercy?

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Do you mean by this that everyone is adopted by God? "Born again," comes to us by grace, through our embrace. If even our acceptance is considered a work, and God adopts us 'for free'--then, everyone gets it? Or...is this the Calvinist idea that God chooses who will be saved, based only on his mercy?

The initiative in election belongs to God, who calls sinners to avail themselves of the appeal to a clean conscience through baptism into his Son's Church. Sanctification is then a lifetime process of cooperating with the grace of God through obedience, prayer and good works which makes men objectively holy and fit to enter the New Jerusalem.

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Is the Atonement, limited then--to those God chooses? Or, does everyone have the potential to respond to the mercy and grace offered through Christ's sacrifice?

1Cor.12:[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

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