Unscriptural Calvinism


DrewM
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I've made a scriptural list before on Biblical References to Deification. I made one today on Calvinism. I think this scriptural list shows the inconsistency of the Calvinist doctrines of total depravity, unlimited election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and the perseverance of the saints. LDS reject all of these concepts.

Interestingly, some Calvinists have wanted to exclude Mormons from being Christian because of this issue. Would these same extreme Calvinists exclude Arminians?

T-U-L-I-P

Total Depravity (Original Sin)

Sin inherited from parents: Deut. 1:34-39; Ezek. 18:19-20; Isa 7:15-16; Jer 19:2-6; Matt. 18:1-3; 19:13-14

Non-saved incapable choosing or doing good: Deut.11:26-28; 30:15-20; Josh. 24:15; Acts 10:1-4, 22 (cf 11:14); Rom. 2:14-16

Unconditional Election (Predestination of Individuals)

Acts 10:34; Rom 2:11-12; 1 Pet. 1:17; Tit 2:11; 1 Ti 2:3-4; 2 Peter 3:9

Limited Atonement (Jesus died only for the elect)

Luke 19:10; John 1:29; 3:16; Romans 1:16; 2 Corinthians 5:14-15; 1 Timothy 2:6; Hebrews 2:9; 1 John 2:1-2

Irresistible Grace (No choice in one's salvation)

Matt. 11:28; Acts 6:10; 7:51-55; Revelation 22:17; John 12:32 (cf. John 6:44 & 2 Nephi. 26:24-28, 33)

Perseverance of the Saints (Once saved always saved)

Ezek 3:20; 18:24-26; Matt. 7:21-23; Luke 8:13; 9:62; 12:41-48; John 15:1-7; 1 Cor. 8:11; Gal. 5:1-4, 13; Col. 1:21-23; 1 Ti 1:18-20; 4:1; 5:8; Heb. 3:12; 4:1-2,11; 6:4-8; 10:26-31; 10:38-39; James 5:19-20; 1 Pet. 5:8-10; 2 Pet. 2:1,15,20-22; 3:17; Rev 2:4-5; 3:5,16-17

I invite you to take a look at these scriptures if you're interested in the topic. It shouldn't take more than about 45 minutes.

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To answer your question, in times past many Calvinist did question the faith of Armenians. After all, in their view, we diminished God's sovereignty and dared to question his justice. We turned the absolute gift of salvation into something left to the whim of people's preferences...and in so doing, made it a work achieved (I chose God, indeed!).

We get along better now. :-)

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I think it would be unfare to call Calvinism unscriptural, like most Christian beliefs systems that have sprung up in the last two thousand odd years, it is based on scripture. It is just that most people take certain verses and use them as cipher to then understand or explain away verses that aren't supportive of their own views. (Romans 9 is very much the balwark of Calvinism)

From a non-LDS perspective that is also exactly how I see the LDS operating. You take Joseph Smith's revelations and interpretations and use that to look at the rest of scripture and end up with your own particular brand of Christianity.

Now you might have problems with the character of Calvin, or some of the more extreme doctrinal ends that his followers convinced themsleves of, but I would honestly say that few men who have applied themselves to studying the bible have matched his intellect, dillegence and industry.

Of course all the intellect in the world is in the end of no value without true revelation from God, Calvinist would say Jean Calvin was inspired to restore truth by God, LDS would say Joseph Smith. (I could rather cheeckingly say Jesus should be the restorer of His true gospel but that of course begs the questions of whose version of Jesus.)

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  • 1 year later...

As I Calvinist, I cannot believe you used John 6:44 which states no man can come to Christ unless God draws the man in. That is exactly that Calvinism is talking about. We say the person is a spiritual corpse and complete anti-God until God starts changing the person`s heart. Then the person can be drawn to Christ.

I invite you to read the Institutes of the Christian Religion before you even begin to touch Calvinsim. I have read it many times, in both English and in French, and can find nearly no errors in it. His analysis of the Bible is nearly perfect.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Interestingly, some Calvinists have wanted to exclude Mormons from being Christian because of this issue. Would these same extreme Calvinists exclude Arminians?

Some extreme Calvinists exclude other Calvinists. Some extreme Arminians exclude Calvinists. A great many Arminians and Calvinists exclude Mormons.

A lot of people exclude a lot of people.

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Another thought: I'm not altogether sure that John Calvin was a Calvinist at all. He certainly wasn't responsible for the TULIP acrostic: That came years later in response to the Five Points of Remonstrance.

I'm not even sure Calvin was all that big on the idea of predestination. Certainly he didn't make the song-and-dance about it that modern Calvinists do.

Edited by Jamie123
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Some extreme Calvinists exclude other Calvinists. Some extreme Arminians exclude Calvinists. A great many Arminians and Calvinists exclude Mormons.

A lot of people exclude a lot of people.

Yeah, but if we're referring to the Celestial Kingdom, a lot of people will indeed be excluded--including most of the 60% of LDS who are inactive, and even some who are active, but not holding a recommend. Then there's the vast majority of non-LDS Christians who would not get in. Even within the CK, will everyone be exalted?

My point is, for all the complaints about who's excluding who, there will be some excluding done. Thankfully, God handles most of that himself. :cool:

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My take on all of this is to note to whom the given portion of Scripture was directed. I do believe that fallen man apart from GOD cannot be good enough to save himself or anyone else. I believe that while the eventually saved were still dead in their sins, Christ died for them. I also believe that God knows exactly who will eventually accept His gift of salvation through Christ Jesus. That means that God also fully knew/knows who would/will reject Him.

So, in actuality, God choose to Create a beautiful angel and place him in charge of the world with the full knowledge that that angel would seek to elevate himself to the status of God. God know Adam and Eve would choose to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of both Good & Evil. But God also knew that this Riverside guy, was born as a result of that fall and a series of both good and sinful events.

God choose to go ahead and allow the various things to happen (which He foreknew) so that guys like me could be born and saved. That is what I believe God is driving at when it comes to predestined. And if you will note; in the Bible when such verses arise, such is being directed towards "christians," and not unsaved individuals. Such letters were to churches and not secular groups.

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