Heaven and polgamy???

[yellows23]

If polgamy was allowed until 1890-s bye the church prophet.Is it fair good LDS members who are sealed in Heaven with a few wives has the advantage over being sealed in the temple with one wife??? While the church member has many wives in heaven with spirtual children.The other church member only has one wife and spiritual children.Wouldn't this cause jealous in heaven??? If you lived before 1890-s you could have many wives in heaven with you!!! Now you only have one wife with you in heaven.

[the_jason]

I don't look at having multiple wives as a status symbol. Obviously, there can only be as many wives in heaven as there have been women on the earth, so not every man will have the same number. A man who has one wife will still be entitled to the same blessings as a man who has 2 wives.

[Marsha8]

I don't look at having multiple wives as a status symbol. Obviously, there can only be as many wives in heaven as there have been women on the earth, so not every man will have the same number. A man who has one wife will still be entitled to the same blessings as a man who has 2 wives.

I like to think of it as everone will just have one, unless the couple are happy still sharing, which I cannot imagine why. Maybe that period was just a ticket to Heaven for the men that died as children or in war and etc.

[the_jason]

I like to think of it as everone will just have one, unless the couple are happy still sharing, which I cannot imagine why. Maybe that period was just a ticket to Heaven for the men that died as children or in war and etc.

Unless there are the same number of men and women in the Celestial Kingdom, there will have to be some doubling-up somewhere.

[Palerider]

If polgamy was allowed until 1890-s bye the church prophet.Is it fair good LDS members who are sealed in Heaven with a few wives has the advantage over being sealed in the temple with one wife??? While the church member has many wives in heaven with spirtual children.The other church member only has one wife and spiritual children.Wouldn't this cause jealous in heaven??? If you lived before 1890-s you could have many wives in heaven with you!!! Now you only have one wife with you in heaven.

I feel sorry for that guy who did have more than one wife....now he is stuck with all those Mother's in law in heaven too.....glad I was born much later......

[pushka]

LOL Pale!! :)

[Dale]

I understand LDS men still get sealed to more than women for the eternity. It's just not done at the same time. If the former spouse died and the husband got re-married he can be sealed to the new wife also. It was only the earthly practice that was ended.

For the heck of it i speculated a a way a church leader could be sealed to more than wife without anybody knowing it. I am not sure how proxy temple work goes on. But i assume LDS men and women stand in for deceased men and women couple's all the time. If the LDS leadership were to use a substitute code name for a church president who would know women were being sealed to him? It would require them having an order sent to a temple to have certain name's to have proxy marriage's performed for them, but it could be done.

I could see the LDS leadership if they felt the work needed to be done finding way's to do it. The more larger scale the covert operation is the more likely word could leak out. But i see a small scale covert operation as much more manageable.

It could be possible to have a seperate list of all single temple-going Mormon women. If they died without a husband the LDS leader's could have them assigned to a worthy husband in the afterlife. They would have to have a massive list of men they might be sealed to help make it work. It would be a nightmare project to undertake, but it might be possible.

It's also possible plan's for a future such temple operation could already be written up. And they could be ready to go if the word ever came down to do it.

[AnthonyB]

Dale,

Do the Community of Christ believe in the marriage covenant continueing into eternity?

[Dale]

No. My church rejected the idea of eternal marriage as a Nauvoo marriage speculation. But i am not unfriendly to the idea as some of my people. Plural marriage was rejected by my people also.

I don't see Jesus statement's that men like the angel's would be single as the final authority. He based his answer on Moses, and not on any continuing revelation. So if he learned an answer that corrected his mortal answer he could do so in my opinion.

Some of my comment's were pure speculation. I don't think any LDS leader has wive's they never knew in mortality sealed to them today. But i do know of an instance where that did happen. Heber J. Grant's mother had been sealed to Joseph Smith only after Joseph Smith died. He had been called a son of Joseph Smith via adoption as a result.

The Manifesto would not end such a practice as it violated no mortal law's. Whether it was ever continued as a practice is unknown to me. I don't think it is anybody's business if it was anyway.

[Guest Malcolm]

No. My church rejected the idea of eternal marriage as a Nauvoo marriage speculation. But i am not unfriendly to the idea as some of my people. Plural marriage was rejected by my people also.

I don't see Jesus statement's that men like the angel's would be single as the final authority. He based his answer on Moses, and not on any continuing revelation. So if he learned an answer that corrected his mortal answer he could do so in my opinion.

Some of my comment's were pure speculation. I don't think any LDS leader has wive's they never knew in mortality sealed to them today. But i do know of an instance where that did happen. Heber J. Grant's mother had been sealed to Joseph Smith only after Joseph Smith died. He had been called a son of Joseph Smith via adoption as a result.

The Manifesto would not end such a practice as it violated no mortal law's. Whether it was ever continued as a practice is unknown to me. I don't think it is anybody's business if it was anyway.

If you don't find Jesus' words on the matter authoritative then all that's left is a theosophical exercise and whatever anybody says holds sway. In other words, we are free to believe whatever we want. That is the reason for 2000 different denominations. The philosophies of men.

People have the governments they deserve. As far as we are concerned we vow to always obey the laws of the land.

[Dale]

Jesus word's in Matthew 22:30 is hardly firm evidence against eternal marriage. Jesus gave a mortal answer based only on what he knew. What he did know was based on Moses word's. I see no indication God the Father gave him a revelation on the subject of marriage's in heaven. D.&C. 132 if it's a revelation of God it say's marriage's will exist in heaven. If it is as it claim's then Jesus later came to the knowledge that marriage's would be in heaven.

Are Moses word's the final authority on faith, or practice? Can new revelation come out that disagree's with Moses?

With Evangelical churche's they don't see many false churche's. The church of Christ is represented to them in many denomination's. As long as those denomination's agree on God, man, salvation, scripture they accept each other as true Christian?

[yellows23]

If I have one legal wife sealed to me in the LDS temple.I can sealed maybe more wives to me in the temple.If the women are not married and single.If I am in my 70's and get maybe 2 more women sealed to me in the temple,I will have three wives in heaven??? If these women are never married in the 70's???

[AnthonyB]

Jesus word's in Matthew 22:30 is hardly firm evidence against eternal marriage. Jesus gave a mortal answer based only on what he knew. What he did know was based on Moses word's. I see no indication God the Father gave him a revelation on the subject of marriage's in heaven. D.&C. 132 if it's a revelation of God it say's marriage's will exist in heaven. If it is as it claim's then Jesus later came to the knowledge that marriage's would be in heaven.

Are Moses word's the final authority on faith, or practice? Can new revelation come out that disagree's with Moses?

With Evangelical churche's they don't see many false churche's. The church of Christ is represented to them in many denomination's. As long as those denomination's agree on God, man, salvation, scripture they accept each other as true Christian?

Dale,

My way to explain this is to draw a comparision to the Tower of Babel, God punished the people for their sin and seperated them into various ethnicities with differing languages. Today we celebrate those differences, and rejoice in the variety of cultures that exist on earth. I see God's redeeming hand in this, turning what once was an effect of sin into a great gift to people.

I would see that an apostasy occurred in the church in that men used creeds to divide and seperate people. They stopped looking for Christ in fellow believers and started using non-biblical creeds to seperate and judge people. Refusing to acknowledge their common Christian faith and instead quibling over doctrinal minutae.

I see a restoration having occurred in two ways, firstly the foundation of churches that have returned to simple biblical truths and practices. Secondly that the vast majority of Christians have stopped using their creeds as means to judge other Christians and are learning to love and accept one another.

When I look at the NT I do not see some ecclesiastical heireichy lording it over others but groups of Christians in churches mutualling supporting one another. So I do not see Christian unity needs to expressed in some heirarchy that all Christians MUST join or be damned. Jesus prayed that his followers should be one like He and the Father are one. I do not see Jesus and Father God belonging to the one earthly club or church, I see them being one in love and fellowship. That same measure is my ultimate measure of Christian unity, do we love another as He has loved us.

So there was a sin, apostasy of using creeds to seperate Christians, there were the effects of that sin, seperation into varying churches, but there is redemption, recognizing our common Christianity and being able to rejoice in the variety that God had allowed in His churches. I see the example of sin, effect and redemption mirrored throughout scripture.

The chorus I learned as a child sums up my view...

All praise to the Father from whom all things come,

And all praise to Christ Jesus, His only son,

And all praise to the Spirit, who makes us one,

And we pray that all unity may one day be restored,

And they'll know we are Christian by our love, by our love.

(Not that we will all join one club or group but that we would learn to truly love others as we have been commanded to.)

[NeuroTypical]

If I have one legal wife sealed to me in the LDS temple.I can sealed maybe more wives to me in the temple.If the women are not married and single.If I am in my 70's and get maybe 2 more women sealed to me in the temple,I will have three wives in heaven??? If these women are never married in the 70's???

I'm not sure which church you're thinking about, but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - AKA Mormons - the folks that went west with Brigham - the church with their HQ in Salt Lake City - the church all the mormons on this site belong to (except Dale), do no longer pracice polygamy. If you are sealed to your wife in the temple, and she's still alive, you don't get sealed to anyone else.

LM

[cgrantreed]

If polgamy was allowed until 1890-s bye the church prophet.Is it fair good LDS members who are sealed in Heaven with a few wives has the advantage over being sealed in the temple with one wife??? While the church member has many wives in heaven with spirtual children.The other church member only has one wife and spiritual children.Wouldn't this cause jealous in heaven??? If you lived before 1890-s you could have many wives in heaven with you!!! Now you only have one wife with you in heaven.

I have no idea what the process was for temple marriage back in the polygamy days but I know that now you are only married to one spouse unless they die before you do. I know for sure that men can be Temple married to more than one woman, only if she predeceases him and he takes another wife to the Temple. I do not know for sure if a woman can do the same but I believe so. Don't quote me on that. As far as whether you get to keep your extra temple marriages in heaven... that is for God to sort out as I do not know of anyplace that states the details of that. I have heard it that men can have more than one eternal mate in heaven and I would think, COMPLETELY hypothesizing of course as I know of NO doctrinal matters in it, that because we are taking our human knowledge, emotion, thoughts, etc... with us that their might be jealousy but who knows.

I know for sure though that you and your wife can civilly divorce and still be temple married. However, if one or the other wants to remarry they can't do it in the Temple without applying for and receiving a temple marriage cancellation from the First Presidency of the church. I knew a couple that could not be civilly married with each other because they fought like children. They got a civil divorce and stayed celestially married and figured that God could sort it out. They are very good friends, do not live together and have grown through their children and are basically growing old with each other...in separate houses and lives:-) That was a trip for sure but they figure that maybe it will work in Heaven:-) i am headed into a divorce right now...not by my choice mind you... and I know that a celestial cancellation is going to happen because my wife/ex wants to remarry so she can have another man to ruin that will probably have more money than I do:-) i will remarry eventually and I will do it in the Temple...just with out marrying a black widow this time.

I also have no idea why anyone would want more than one wife anyway:eek: Its hard enough to keep one happy:D

[ZelphLover]

I'm not sure which church you're thinking about, but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - AKA Mormons - the folks that went west with Brigham - the church with their HQ in Salt Lake City - the church all the mormons on this site belong to (except Dale), do no longer pracice polygamy. If you are sealed to your wife in the temple, and she's still alive, you don't get sealed to anyone else.

LM

You are quite right that is the policy in place right now, however it is prudent to remember that LDS doctrine is CLEAR, Polygamy is the highest order of celestial marriage and that the practice of polygamy along with the practice of consecration will be practiced/obeyed before the second coming of Christ. We did not practice polygamy in order to feed mouths, or take care of needy women during the time of war, that is a common misconception perpetrated in order to make us feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

It may be a difficult pill to swallow however Joseph Smith himself established polygamy, and was married to multiple women while he was alive, he paved the way and established the law by example and obedience, along with all other laws that we practice. It is only a matter of time before the general authorities stand up and fight for the right of all LDS people to practice our religion in its fullness, the way that Joseph Smith established. In order to receive the highest blessing of the celestial kingdom it is require that a man have multiple wives, there is no disputing that point. It is doctrine! and we are being denied those blessings because of political agenda, and need to obey the law or the land.

The only reason why polygamy is not part of our faith now is because of the political sway of the nation... if it is prudent for other previously prohibited practices to be legal (like abortion and gay marriage) then surely the pure practice of our own religion will be brought full circle.

[Dale]

I do not think gay marriage, or polygamy ought to be legal. But if gay marriage ever became the law of the land so should polygamy. I do not like the idea polygamist's should have less marital right's than gay people.

[cgrantreed]

You are quite right that is the policy in place right now, however it is prudent to remember that LDS doctrine is CLEAR, Polygamy is the highest order of celestial marriage and that the practice of polygamy along with the practice of consecration will be practiced/obeyed before the second coming of Christ. We did not practice polygamy in order to feed mouths, or take care of needy women during the time of war, that is a common misconception perpetrated in order to make us feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

It may be a difficult pill to swallow however Joseph Smith himself established polygamy, and was married to multiple women while he was alive, he paved the way and established the law by example and obedience, along with all other laws that we practice. It is only a matter of time before the general authorities stand up and fight for the right of all LDS people to practice our religion in its fullness, the way that Joseph Smith established. In order to receive the highest blessing of the celestial kingdom it is require that a man have multiple wives, there is no disputing that point. It is doctrine! and we are being denied those blessings because of political agenda, and need to obey the law or the land.

The only reason why polygamy is not part of our faith now is because of the political sway of the nation... if it is prudent for other previously prohibited practices to be legal (like abortion and gay marriage) then surely the pure practice of our own religion will be brought full circle.

And you heard this where? I have been in the church a very long time and NOT ONCE have I ever heard out of the prophets mouth that Polygamy was a Celestial right nor was it ok when Joseph Smith did it. Wish I could find the reference to that right now. I'll repost when i find it. He was chastised by God for it and it was abolished by God in the times of Moses...read Exodus... Nowhere in any of the other scriptures was it approved and reinstated. Some did it anyway but it was not ok in Gods eyes. I HAVE heard that there may be plural marriage in heaven but since none of us are there its a crap shoot as to whether that will be the case or not. I'd hate to hedge a bet on it since we don't know everything about earth life yet. The Church has stated officially that they do not support Polygamy in any form. A sect of "reformed" LDS people in Montana?Utah? believe in Polygamy and they spun off from the saints because they felt that this was a prime part of the faith. They are few and the Church does not support that belief... any more than they support gay marriage or abortion.

The law of Consecration is already in effect in as much as you are supposed to give of your time talents and abilities to God for the benefit of the building of Zion. However, its impossible to do it in its completeness because the church is not doing it to its full potential yet and the world would not tolerate it because people are still too stuck on "stuff". Its just not time for that to happen. It will though before the second coming as revelations talk of times getting so tough that it will take the law of consecration for the saints to survive in the collapse of society.

[Aphrodite]

And you heard this where? I have been in the church a very long time and NOT ONCE have I ever heard out of the prophets mouth that Polygamy was a Celestial right nor was it ok when Joseph Smith did it. Wish I could find the reference to that right now. I'll repost when i find it. He was chastised by God for it and it was abolished by God in the times of Moses...read Exodus... Nowhere in any of the other scriptures was it approved and reinstated. Some did it anyway but it was not ok in Gods eyes. I HAVE heard that there may be plural marriage in heaven but since none of us are there its a crap shoot as to whether that will be the case or not. I'd hate to hedge a bet on it since we don't know everything about earth life yet. The Church has stated officially that they do not support Polygamy in any form. A sect of "reformed" LDS people in Montana?Utah? believe in Polygamy and they spun off from the saints because they felt that this was a prime part of the faith. They are few and the Church does not support that belief... any more than they support gay marriage or abortion.

The law of Consecration is already in effect in as much as you are supposed to give of your time talents and abilities to God for the benefit of the building of Zion. However, its impossible to do it in its completeness because the church is not doing it to its full potential yet and the world would not tolerate it because people are still too stuck on "stuff". Its just not time for that to happen. It will though before the second coming as revelations talk of times getting so tough that it will take the law of consecration for the saints to survive in the collapse of society.

If you have never heard this then Im not surprised. The church does not tend to broadcast it as its contraversial. Both Brigham Young and Joseph Smith had several wives and stated it was the highest order needed for the celestial kingdom. The only reason it was abolished is becasue it became illegal and we have to follow the laws of the land. According to church doctrine, it will be practised in the celestial kingdom. It is difficult to accept.

People here talk about women being sealed to men-what happens if there are more men than women??? According to the church women cant be sealed to more than one man and u have to be married to go to the celestial kingdom. So what happens to them???

Its actually depressing to think about death from the LDS point of view. If you make it to the top, you will have to share your husband and presumably be 'pregnant' in heaven. If you dont make it, you wont be with your beloved. So its either share him with someone else, or dont have him atall.

[Dale]

Deut. 17 has been used to say God prohibited polygamy with kings. The part about kings not muliplying wives has been misread. It say's the same thing about muliplying horses and gold. It doesn't as i read it say a king can't have some in each category. It's been thought that God tolerated some polygamy as God tolerated divorce. I am not sure he condoned it, but certainly where permitted the persons were not guilty of adultury. When acting in accord with the law they were not guilty of adultury.

Deut.21 gives laws for polygamist families. I wasn't aware of it being forbidden in Exodus. I would be interested in the part about Moses.

I understand current LDS practice allow's a man to be sealed to more than one wife. Though the man has to become a widow though. And a divorced woman or man who gets re-married needs a temple divorce before they can get a new temple marriage.

The modern LDS Church is opposed only to unauthorized earthly polygamy. But they never repudiate its once past authorized polygamy, or Celestial marriage. But in dealing with the press LDS leader's are very careful not to say to much. They do not want to launch into pro-polygamy idea's, but to dissacociate the church from Fundementalist Mormons.

Sunday school, and conference statements tend to water down issue's. D.&C. 132 is scripture to LDS. It say Joseph Smiths polygamy was ok and not adultury. If it's scripture then his polygamy was ok with God. It can be a problem because LDS members do not hear much about polygamy if any. and unless one has read D.& C. 132 or pro-polygamy apologetic by FAIR and FAIR wiki they can be unprepared for issues.

I am RLDS and we take an Anti-polygamy position. But when i read books on Joseph Smith and polygamy when an LDS teenager i ran into stuff i had never heard. Over time i found my own answers and the subject no longer bothers me. But even in my denomination we have members surprised by things they never heard in Sunday School. Sunday school history is ok, but i think people should know stuff Anti-Mormon's can hit them with.

We have member's who feel Joseph Smith was innocent of polygamy. We have members who feel he was involved, but repented of his polygamy. The 2nd view has become our official position. I can defend either position if i wish. I have marked up all my Mormon polygamy history book's so much i can do so. I am not an expert, but i do know where to find the material if i need it. I do not care what view's LDS, or my members hold whether as long as they are aware of the basic proof's.

I guess FAIR in 2007 got more polygamy related questions than at any other time. Warren Jeffs was in the news which caused people to be interested in Joseph Smith's polygamy. FAIR has a blog now where the need to immunize member's was discussed. It has application to members of my Community of Christ church also.

[Elphaba]

If I have one legal wife sealed to me in the LDS temple.I can sealed maybe more wives to me in the temple.If the women are not married and single.If I am in my 70's and get maybe 2 more women sealed to me in the temple,I will have three wives in heaven??? If these women are never married in the 70's???

This is true, but your wife would have had to have passed before you coud marry the other two women. Likewise with the two other women--you can only marry one of the time on earth, but the marriage has been sealed for eternity.

However, there is a twist. What if you were the one to die first? And one day after, she ever meets a fella, and they fall in love and marry. They met at a senior singles dance, so he is a devout Mormon as she is, and she feels she's never been happier in her life, although she knows she lives in much different world today.

Then the day cames when both she, and her second beloved pass on. Now is time for the family to get togther and decide what to do. Luckily the Church has a mechanism in place for entering the names in just for this kind of situation.

These days, the family does the work for the mother and all of her spouses together, so she can make the choice in heaven. That way she can choose who to be with. So, now she has to pick between you and her second fella. Who do you think she would pick?

Elphaba

[NeuroTypical]

The only reason why polygamy is not part of our faith now is because of the political sway of the nation...

Please cite your source.

There is no LDS polygamy anywhere in the world - including the places where polygamy is legal. When the practice of polygamy was ended, there were members living in other countries where it was legal - and yet it was ended for them as well.

LM

[Marsha8]

Is it just me? I desire a special relationship that only my spouce and I share (no other women) I beleive that marriage should be a special bond and you devote your whole self to that ONE and only. I would feel like something is lost if either of us shared that with anyone else. Plus, if you are looking at someone else to marry it seems to me that you are being unfaithful to your spouse.

[ZelphLover]

Please cite your source.

There is no LDS polygamy anywhere in the world - including the places where polygamy is legal. When the practice of polygamy was ended, there were members living in other countries where it was legal - and yet it was ended for them as well.

LM

I will, however I can assure you that there are many!

AND... for the record, I never ever stated that there was a practice of polygamy in the LDS church RIGHT NOW...

When polygamy was ended for the church it was done with a manifesto, which much later became revelation... and even after the manifesto was released the marriages were still taking place 200+ to be more precise...

Look at it like this, say for example that the present government told us that we could no longer baptize our children...what do you think would happen? Well there would be baptisimal fonds springing up in peoples basements, that is something that we would just do... after the marvelous persuasive efforts of persecution the baptising would end, but we would always have it in our minds that it would be something that would come back, God would never take it away from us forever.

Same with polygamy, swallow the pill here people, it is part of our past yes... but it is a doctrine that WILL come back into practice...I am not talking about fundamentalists here, I am talking about true blue CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS!

I will get you all the sources that you need, but honestly, do some research :computer:for the love of everything holy... if you are going to belong to a specific religion, have the kahonies to learn what they ACTUALLY believe!

Zelph out!

[Marsha8]

I will, however I can assure you that there are many!

AND... for the record, I never ever stated that there was a practice of polygamy in the LDS church RIGHT NOW...

When polygamy was ended for the church it was done with a manifesto, which much later became revelation... and even after the manifesto was released the marriages were still taking place 200+ to be more precise...

Look at it like this, say for example that the present government told us that we could no longer baptize our children...what do you think would happen? Well there would be baptisimal fonds springing up in peoples basements, that is something that we would just do... after the marvelous persuasive efforts of persecution the baptising would end, but we would always have it in our minds that it would be something that would come back, God would never take it away from us forever.

Same with polygamy, swallow the pill here people, it is part of our past yes... but it is a doctrine that WILL come back into practice...I am not talking about fundamentalists here, I am talking about true blue CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS!

I will get you all the sources that you need, but honestly, do some research :computer:for the love of everything holy... if you are going to belong to a specific religion, have the kahonies to learn what they ACTUALLY believe!

Zelph out!

You are so wrong. It will not come back and Heavenly Father would not do away with baptism no matter what!