Trump just won the election

[estradling75]

36 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Rogan said something that piqued my interest.  Trump may say some crazy things and seems to not have a filter.  But he actually preferred that to all the phony politicians who have rehearsed addresses and always tip-toe around issues to make sure they don't offend anyone other than their opponent. etc. etc.

With Trump, you know exactly what you're getting.  Warts and all.

No politician is perfect.  We all know that.  But we know exactly what we're getting with Trump.

With Biden, we couldn't even figure out when he was lucid or not.

With Kamala, we can't even figure out what she's saying or if she actually answered the question at all.  How on earth are we supposed to know what to expect from her?

That's kind of where I am now.  When people say "How could you possibly vote for a man with such glaring flaws and faults?"  And I know he has many..  But I do not believe his  Ego, pride, or antagonistic nature are any worse then any other politician running for president, he just does not hide it.  The others do

[NeuroTypical]

Republicans, talking about Nixon, used to say "He may be a [beep], but he's our [beep]."

Trump is a bombastic narcissist, but he's also a deal making strongman who knows how to make things happen.  In his first 4 years, he made more things happen that I liked, than I'd seen in the last 20 years. 

I am not at all happy that every analyst and economist you can find, even the conservative ones, think Trump's economic plan will be more spendy and have a worse impact on prices and inflation than Harris' plan.  That said, I also believe he'll end the Russia/Ukraine war in like the first 10 minutes of his term (not counting the months of screaming and 'nuh-uh'-ing we'll see from everyone who hates him more than they like the killing to stop).    He'll stop the flow of illegal immigration.  He'll raise America's position across the world in numerous ways.  He might even be able to deal with Iran.  

He'll make the budget deficit worse, which will keep me gnashing my teeth forever.  I'm worried the great American experiment will end sooner if that problem doesn't get fixed.  But voting Kamala is hardly an alternative.

[zil2]

If nothing else, the group of people around Trump, assuming he keeps them when he enters office, will make it interesting: Vance, Musk, Kennedy, Gabbard, and Ramaswamy.

And this:

22 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

But voting Kamala is hardly an alternative.

The concept of the DNC puppeteers having another term to increase their power is terrifying.

[Carborendum]

55 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

He'll make the budget deficit worse, which will keep me gnashing my teeth forever.  I'm worried the great American experiment will end sooner if that problem doesn't get fixed.

It cannot be fixed. We're beyond the point of no return.  That means that our full annual federal revenue is less than the annual obligations (including interest on the debt) or at least, we're pretty close to it.  And we show no signs of stopping our deficit spending.

The only hope is if the Fed simply "forgives" the debt and move forward from there.  But even that route will have repercussions that no one can predict with a reasonable level of certainty.  And pretty much everyone believes that whatever those repercussions are, they will not be pleasant.

Buy crypto.

Edited October 28 by Carborendum

[NeuroTypical]

Well, perspective is important.  I notice you can still find Britain and British people, even if the British empire isn't what it used to be.  Same for Turkey, Spain, Portugal, etc.  

As for the South American empires - if they didn't disappear into history on their own, after the Spanish and Portuguese were done conquering you, you stayed conquered.  In every way that matters, including culturally and genetically. 

[Phoenix_person]

5 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I am not at all happy that every analyst and economist you can find, even the conservative ones, think Trump's economic plan will be more spendy and have a worse impact on prices and inflation than Harris' plan. 

And yet sooo many people seem to be voting for him because of inflation and the economy. I actually feel bad for economists. No one likes them because most of them are genuinely apolitical when talking economics. And yeah, they really don't seem to like Trump's economic plans. 

[LDSGator]

4 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

I actually feel bad for economists.

I do too, but I find that statement odd coming from a liberal. Most economists are (correctly) against drastic increases in the minimum wage, rent control, and high taxes. Things that liberals almost universally are in favor of. 

What stuns me is when populist conservatives are afraid of/against economics.   The republican party pre Trump has always been the party of harsh truths, including economic truths. A conservative being afraid of economics is like a liberal being afraid of social workers. 

Edited October 29 by LDSGator

[LDSGator]

In fact, the one thing keeping me from swinging left is…you guessed it. Economics.  

[Phoenix_person]

58 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I do too, but I find that statement odd coming from a liberal. Most economists are (correctly) against drastic increases in the minimum wage, rent control, and high taxes. Things that liberals almost universally are in favor of. 

I said I feel bad for them, not that I like them. 😜

58 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

The republican party pre Trump has always been the party of harsh truths, including economic truths. A conservative being afraid of economics is like a liberal being afraid of social workers. Not being funny.  

The GOP has grown afraid of its voter base. That's why they did nothing to stop the twice-impeached J6 cheerleader from grabbing their party nomination by the... primary vote.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the GOP is going to have a reckoning either this year or in 4. Trump is the only thing holding the party together, and he'll be 82 in four years. Who's the next face of the party? Vance? Cruz? MTG? The Freedom Caucus (thankfully) isn't powerful enough to run the Senate or House (though they're apparently powerful enough to kneecap their own party's House majority). But I also don't see any of the so-called RINOs taking their party back any time soon. 

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

I said I feel bad for them, not that I like them. 😜

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Son, I’m going to send you “Economics in One Lesson: The Shortest and Surest Way to Understand Basic Economics” by Henry Hazlitt. I want a typed, double spaced 10 page essay by December 1st. 😉 

 

4 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the GOP is going to have a reckoning either this year or in 4. Trump is the only thing holding the party together, and he'll be 82 in four years. Who's the next face of the party? Vance? Cruz? MTG? The Freedom Caucus (thankfully) isn't powerful enough to run the Senate or House (though they're apparently powerful enough to kneecap their own party's House majority). But I also don't see any of the so-called RINOs taking their party back any time soon. 

I totally agree with you, verbatim.  

[LDSGator]

7 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

epublicans, talking about Nixon, used to say "He may be a [beep], but he's our [beep]."

Same with catholics. I heard “He’s not much of a Catholic but at least he’s Catholic” several times growing up

[NeuroTypical]

As far as republican bashing: Yeah, me too.  Last year my wife adopted the label "politically homeless", and I think I'm joining her.  Especially with Trump's populism and utter lack of anything resembling financial discipline.  I've been on record for a decade that the last time I was proud to consider myself a republican was with Bush I, until 2 days after the towers fell and R gave up all talk of deficit reduction and balanced budgets. 

That said, Democrats are absolutely going through similar growing pains as GenY/Z/Millennials find their voices.  The old guard have been lookin' at @Phoenix_person and his progressives since Hillary, and decided to jump into bed with big business.  

Biden got seated, and this is the thanks we get?  Dang whippersnappers - don't they know Dems are the only alternative to Trump? 

 

You can't swing a dead cat in ConservaTok without finding a former Democrat who says they're still liberal, talking about watching both parties move so left, that now the Republicans are saying all the things they've been saying since the '80's.  

 

 

 

Edited October 29 by NeuroTypical

[LDSGator]

6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

That said, Democrats are absolutely going through similar growing pains as GenY/Z/Millennials find their voices.

A lot of young people are realizing that if your views align with every single musician, actor and corporation, you can’t call yourself part of counterculture/resistance, etc 

[Traveler]

I believe that sometime in the future that this time (generation) will be known as a time of great paradox.  A time, unlike ever before, of an era with incredible access information and yet a time of perhaps the greatest ignorance in human history.

 

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

A lot of young people are realizing that if your views align with every single musician, actor and corporation, you can’t call yourself part of counterculture/resistance, etc 

I thought it was weird that I developed an affinity with punk rockers in 2020.  Not especially the music or the always-present desire to actively resist something without needing a reason.  But I had definite opinions about censorship, the power of the media to shape opinion and implement agendas, and the government using technology against it's citizens, and it's like I had found a group of people who were similarly worried. 

This wasn't "hold to the iron rod" me, but it was certainly "jumping facebook after they gave me an account ding for sharing a Washington Post article" me: 

 

Edited October 29 by NeuroTypical

[LDSGator]

44 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

This wasn't "hold to the iron rod" me, but it was certainly "jumping facebook after they gave me an account ding for sharing a Washington Post article" me: 

My old account got totally erased after one too many drug references. It was either AI or an incredibly thin skinned “friend”. Doesn’t matter it’s their rules. I’m playing with house money now. 

[Phoenix_person]

8 hours ago, Traveler said:

I believe that sometime in the future that this time (generation) will be known as a time of great paradox.  A time, unlike ever before, of an era with incredible access information and yet a time of perhaps the greatest ignorance in human history.

 

The Traveler

I 100% agree. While I obviously don't agree with his methodology, I think Uncle Ted may have been onto something. And I think it's going to continue to get a lot worse. We're beyond means of production. The biggest source of power in 2024 is the means of controlling information, and that's currently owned by the people we should trust the least with it: the billionaire class.

8 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I thought it was weird that I developed an affinity with punk rockers in 2020.  Not especially the music or the always-present desire to actively resist something without needing a reason.  But I had definite opinions about censorship, and the government using technology against it's citizens, and it's like I had found a group of people who were similarly worried. 

Me:

 

 

From where I sit, punk is anti-government and pro-people. That's why I've tried to shift my focus more towards the local "punks" who, like myself, realized that it's more effective to rage against the machine from inside the machine. I have no desire to run for public office, but I'll gladly help elect people who share my values and have the vision to govern on those values, and those people are easier to find in the local political arena than in federal races because they've had less time to be corrupted by the political machine.

(ETA: That's not to say that local elections are never plagued by corruption, but it's usually limited to huge metros like NYC, not little flyover cities like mine.)

Edited October 30 by Phoenix_person

[JohnsonJones]

On 10/28/2024 at 11:24 AM, NeuroTypical said:

Republicans, talking about Nixon, used to say "He may be a [beep], but he's our [beep]."

Trump is a bombastic narcissist, but he's also a deal making strongman who knows how to make things happen.  In his first 4 years, he made more things happen that I liked, than I'd seen in the last 20 years. 

I am not at all happy that every analyst and economist you can find, even the conservative ones, think Trump's economic plan will be more spendy and have a worse impact on prices and inflation than Harris' plan.  That said, I also believe he'll end the Russia/Ukraine war in like the first 10 minutes of his term (not counting the months of screaming and 'nuh-uh'-ing we'll see from everyone who hates him more than they like the killing to stop).    He'll stop the flow of illegal immigration.  He'll raise America's position across the world in numerous ways.  He might even be able to deal with Iran.  

He'll make the budget deficit worse, which will keep me gnashing my teeth forever.  I'm worried the great American experiment will end sooner if that problem doesn't get fixed.  But voting Kamala is hardly an alternative.

Most likely because the first time around he caused massive inflation (almost runaway inflation according to some).  The first year or so of a President's term and the economic situation in it is normally not something they had a hand in.  Even in year two you can only start seeing what their policies may start doing.  Year 3 and 4 are when you can start seeing what is going on and how big an impact it may have. 

The massive inflation at the beginning of Biden''s term was something that wasn't fully Trumps fault either, but the actions in regards to trying to save lives worldwide.  The US actually did better at getting a handle on the inflation then some other nations in the world. 

However, when looking at some of the causes in the US of the inflation, it's not hard for economists to see that some of it was directly the result of some Trump policies.  Now that he is saying he's going to take those same policies and go even further than before, it's probably easy for them to say it will be a disaster.

My problem with Trumps policies was that it exploded the deficit.  He didn't reign in spending, and neither did the Republicans under his watch.  They literally exploded the deficit to unforeseen levels.  It's insane.  I didn't profit from it either.  My taxes (I know many got better taxes for a while, my didn't get better with the new rules) were worse from Trumps tax policies. 

Combining those two, I don't see good outcomes from Trumps monetary policies in 4 years time. 

I'm sure there must be an economist out there that doesn't agree with the others who are saying doom and gloom about Trump though, there's always that voice that goes contrary to the others.

[Phoenix_person]

3 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Most likely because the first time around he caused massive inflation (almost runaway inflation according to some).  The first year or so of a President's term and the economic situation in it is normally not something they had a hand in.  Even in year two you can only start seeing what their policies may start doing.  Year 3 and 4 are when you can start seeing what is going on and how big an impact it may have. 

The massive inflation at the beginning of Biden''s term was something that wasn't fully Trumps fault either, but the actions in regards to trying to save lives worldwide.  The US actually did better at getting a handle on the inflation then some other nations in the world. 

However, when looking at some of the causes in the US of the inflation, it's not hard for economists to see that some of it was directly the result of some Trump policies.  Now that he is saying he's going to take those same policies and go even further than before, it's probably easy for them to say it will be a disaster.

My problem with Trumps policies was that it exploded the deficit.  He didn't reign in spending, and neither did the Republicans under his watch.  They literally exploded the deficit to unforeseen levels.  It's insane.  I didn't profit from it either.  My taxes (I know many got better taxes for a while, my didn't get better with the new rules) were worse from Trumps tax policies. 

Combining those two, I don't see good outcomes from Trumps monetary policies in 4 years time. 

I'm sure there must be an economist out there that doesn't agree with the others who are saying doom and gloom about Trump though, there's always that voice that goes contrary to the others.

I think Trump and Biden both embellished a bit too much in early post-COVID job recovery growth. Getting us back to relative normal wasn't a feat, it was the expectation. 

[mirkwood]

4 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

I think Uncle Ted may have been onto something.

 

I had no idea you were a fan.

 

 

[Phoenix_person]

32 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

 

I had no idea you were a fan.

 

 

I was referring to the insane uncle, not the creepy one.

[NeuroTypical]

17 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I'm sure there must be an economist out there that doesn't agree with the others who are saying doom and gloom about Trump though, there's always that voice that goes contrary to the others.

A few weeks ago the WSJ polled 66 economists from business, academic, and financial sectors:
https://www.wsj.com/economy/economists-predictions-survey-charts-68ba82d6?page=1

 

[LDSGator]

14 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

I was referring to the insane uncle, not the creepy one.

Ted Nugent is a creepy uncle and I don’t want to hang out with him, but I’d be lying if I said I don’t turn up the radio to Wango Tango and Cat Scratch Fever. Guilty as charged. 

[NeuroTypical]

@LDSGator bad news, your hat might be delayed.

 

[LDSGator]

@Phoenix_person-given my love of Kiss I’m sure you aren’t terribly surprised that I like other truly awful music. 
 

I’m amazed I don’t like Kid Rock. 😉