Trump just won the election

[LDSGator]

9 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

FWIW, I was in a very rough place earlier today for reasons unrelated to politics or internet trolls. There were about 10 different times I should put my phone down and smoked a bowl or something.

We love you here bro. 

[JohnsonJones]

On 11/8/2024 at 10:18 AM, Phoenix_person said:

Women too, thanks to Kanye's incel buddy.

 

That statement by Nicholas Fuentes is Horrific.  I can't believe it's just standing there.

That implies rape or worse in some instances.  Why would anyone think that was appropriate?

I would think fathers with daughters would find that offensive and hopefully rush to defend their daughters against such people with these types of ideas. 

Husbands would defend their wives.  That's a horrible stance for someone to have, and terrible thing for someone the say, much less be thinking.

[JohnsonJones]

On 11/8/2024 at 12:31 PM, Vort said:

Why should he feel compelled to clarify an already clear statement?

Yeah, actually, I think it was.

Perhaps because he considered such a ridiculous interpretation to be worthy of mockery.

This in particular appears to be the perfect response from Andrew Tate. Kate is a lying idiot, "asking" for a President who is not a "rapist". This is a transparent lie from many angles, the most obvious of which are:

1. She's not asking, she's vilifying.

2. Donald Trump is not a "rapist". As I recall, that charge was leveled based on something his ex-wife said, and she later clarified that he had never in fact raped her. So it's a lie.

Andrew Tate might have addressed either or both of the above two points, or otherwise taken her trollish post seriously. Instead, he took it in the same trollish sense in which it was offered. Good for him. Such a post deserves exactly the serious consideration Andrew Tate gave it. Jon Miller simply recognized a brilliant ownage of a troll and reposted it.

That may be or may not be the charge she is talking about.

Recently an individual in the media released some tapes with Epstein interviews where Epstein went on about how close friends he was with Trump and some of what Trump did.  (We do not now how truthful or untruthful Epstein was being in the interview.  Some of the things Epstein claimed have been understated and pretty truthful of what he said, other things he has exaggerated what he said to make himself look or seem more important or influential).

Some have taken this implication of Trump doing things with woman from Epstein for which Epstein has been made infamous for over the past half decade. 

That would also include implied statutory rape. 

Combining it with other things Trump has said (for example, intruding on teenage girls under the age of consent in a changing room, etc) has led some people to reinforce this accusation recently. 

It is just an accusation, and Trump has not been proven guilty in a court of law. 

However, it may not just be the incident you are referring to which caused her to make that statement. 

 

PS:  Hadn't read up to the point of @Phoenix_person pointing out the Carroll case, but that's actually another salient point as well. 

Edited November 10 by JohnsonJones

[JohnsonJones]

On 11/8/2024 at 12:42 PM, Vort said:

The bolded part above is the crux of the problem. In Jon Miller's mind (and in mine), no reasonable person would honestly misinterpret the joke in that way. Therefore, those who do misinterpret the joke in that way are (1) not reasonable or (2) not honest or (3) both.

If this were an honest, civilized discussion, Miller would immediately have clarified his intent. But then, if this were an honest, civilized discussion, no one would have responded to his joke as your side did. Had there been questions about his meaning, those questions would have been asked in a polite and civilized manner. But the discussion has never been honest and civilized; your side has seen to that. So Miller instead responds in a sarcastic, antisocial way, as befitting those who cry out in absurd objection to his words.

That's actually not true much of the time.  When someone says something that they suddenly realize could be bad, even if they were serious, they try to laugh it off as all fun and games.

If someone came up to you and said, I'm going to rob your home tonight with a bunch of guys with guns and there's nothing you can do about it...

You might take them seriously.  You may call the police.  When the police come...and the person says...

"It's just a joke.  It's so clear we couldn't be serious.  I don't even have a gun, how could the idiot think I was serious."

Would you laugh it off and say...oh yes...they were joking.

If your "joke" towards someone is to imply that they can be raped without having a say in the matter...

That's not a joke and that is not funny.  If Christians find that as funny or humorous or think this is acceptable...

I can't believe some of the horrific things I've been reading in this thread and people just casually thinking it's okay.

That statement this Mr. Miller made is not okay.  Not in a joking manner, not in any manner. 

 

For more information and clarification on my stance:

Of course, I'm one of those that isn't okay with most of the movies and TV shows (most of it is too violent, too indecent, and too filled with other unacceptable items these days.  Most media is not uplifting.  I find many PG and T Movies and shows are far too violent and have too much unacceptable scenes in them.  (Some of the E rated TV shows and cartoons for children are even far too violent for what should be for chldren).  I have commented on this before.  These things are just not uplifting for me at all.  I also know that there are those who watch these things, they have a much higher tolerance than I do.  However, even with those higher tolerances, I have a hard time believing we, as Saints, would find such commentary and behavior as I've been reading as being acceptable!  It boggles my mind!)

 

Edited November 10 by JohnsonJones

[JohnsonJones]

On 11/8/2024 at 3:30 PM, NeuroTypical said:

Rather than pretend to give a crap about how people are beastly to each other online, maybe we could talk about crap that matters?

 

In the first week after winning the election, Trump is already starting to solve the problem of illegal immigration and the border crisis:   https://www.newsweek.com/migrant-caravans-turn-back-after-trump-election-win-1982274

 

Trump's transition office begins to float ideas for ending the war in Ukraine: https://www.wsj.com/world/trump-presidency-ukraine-russia-war-plans-008655c0?mod=Searchresults_pos2&page=1

 

More to come.

That Trump plan will probably never be accepted by Ukraine.

Ukraine gains nothing and Russia gains everything.  In addition, it lines things up for Russia to be able regroup, rearm, and then renew the War in a few years time.

There would need to be something (and we are talking far stronger than the agreement the US and NATO basically broke with Ukraine when Ukraine gave up it's Nukes and we agreed that Russia would never attack Ukraine and we'd help defend it if they did) far stronger than last time...like two or three US bases on the border there so we get attacked first, and a couple NATO bases supplied by Europe as well so We are on the front line of attack this time.

Basically telling Ukraine to surrender is probably not going to get Ukraine to agree to come to the bargaining table.

Perhaps they will, but those terms given above...I don't expect it. 

[Phoenix_person]

3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

In addition, it lines things up for Russia to be able regroup, rearm, and then renew the War in a few years time.

This is what truly worries me about Trump and Ukraine/Russia. Putin knows he gets a new US POTUS in 4 short years. Either that or he plans on dealing with Trump beyond 2028, which scares me even more. We know that there was Russian interference in 2016, and again on Tuesday (the bomb threats). I accept the findings of the multiple investigations that failed to link Trump directly to Russian interference in 2016. I also recognize that multiple Trump-adjacent people got in hot water over dealings with Russia/Ukraine. So either Trump was using syncophantic patsies to deal with Russia, or the patsies were dealing with Russia behind Trump's back. Let's assume Trump genuinely was always ignorant of the illegal dealings of his inner circle. How on Earth can we have confidence that the Trump '24 administration won't have more of Putin's buddies in it? 

[mikbone]

Ukraine needs to join NATO.

This should be our end goal.

[NeuroTypical]

Pop quiz: Why did Trump get impeached the first time?

(This one measure on whether someone has enough long-term memory to be able to form a relevant opinion on Russia and Ukraine.)

[Phoenix_person]

36 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Pop quiz: Why did Trump get impeached the first time?

(This one measure on whether someone has enough long-term memory to be able to form a relevant opinion on Russia and Ukraine.)

The cynical answer is that Dems got the House majority and were out for blood. The legal answer is that he allegedly tried to blackmail President Zelensky into helping him get dirt on Biden.

[LDSGator]

5 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

The cynical answer is that Dems got the House majority and were out for blood. The legal answer is that he allegedly tried to blackmail President Zelensky into helping him get dirt on Biden.

Both are correct. 

[Ironhold]

12 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

That statement by Nicholas Fuentes is Horrific.  I can't believe it's just standing there.

That implies rape or worse in some instances.  Why would anyone think that was appropriate?

I would think fathers with daughters would find that offensive and hopefully rush to defend their daughters against such people with these types of ideas. 

Husbands would defend their wives.  That's a horrible stance for someone to have, and terrible thing for someone the say, much less be thinking.

Fuentes is, from what I gather, *not* someone that either side of the aisle enjoys dealing with, to the point that those who know about him and know what he really is don't take kindly to his various "hot takes". 

Sadly, it's entirely possible that he's deliberately saying things just to provoke, not realizing that provoking people is generally not a good idea. 

[Just_A_Guy]

Just a note:

The story about Trump raping Ivana broke in a book published in the early 1990s, and then was discussed in a Daily Beast article from 2016 (this one, now behind a paywall).  It cited to a deposition Ivana gave during their divorce case; the New Yorker has a 2016 write up at https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/24/documenting-trumps-abuse-of-women

Trump’s response at the time was to dispatch Michael Cohen to (falsely) say that New York law had a marital rape exception, and threaten the reporting parties with lawsuits.  I’m going off memory here, but IIRC Ivana publicly issued a statement (knowing full well that her ongoing alimony depended on it) wherein she said that the encounter discussed in her deposition was not typical of her loving relationship with her husband, but that in hindsight she wouldn’t use the R word.

YMMV, but FWIW when I looked at the situation in detail back in 2016 I found her initial statements persuasive; and nothing that’s happened over the past 8 years has changed my mind.

[person0]

3 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

. . . I found her initial statements persuasive; and nothing that’s happened over the past 8 years has changed my mind.

Trump reminds me a lot of this guy.

[Just_A_Guy]

5 minutes ago, person0 said:

Trump reminds me a lot of this guy.

Agreed.  Though, I would note that choosing their own king seems not to have been a prerogative granted to the Jaredites.  Nor were they under a divine injunction to withhold their support from secular rulers who failed to meet a common denominator of honesty, wisdom, and goodness.  

[mikbone]

6 hours ago, person0 said:

Trump reminds me a lot of this guy.

Except for Trump dislikes war. 

He has no inclination for physical battle.  

Insults and name calling are his weapons of choice.

He is also a great bluffer.  But it’s easy to bluff when you have the best hand at the table (US Military). He also is good with positive and negative reinforcement.  Just like when Jimmy Carter had the Iranian hostage crisis for over a year and 20 minutes after Ronald Regan’s inauguration address the hostages were released.

 

 

 

[Carborendum]

Has anyone looked at the House elections?

It looks like Repubs are guaranteed 217 seats. Somewhat likely that Repubs will get 1 more seat (bare majority). Three remaining seats are too close to call.  The rest are going blue.

That is not enough to reliably get a conservative vote in the House.

[LDSGator]

@Vort & @The Folk Prophet

 

 go to 11:45. Even the Msm guys themselves say they are obsolete, and they use Rogan as a measuring stick.  

[Carborendum]

BTW, what are y'all's thoughts on the BYU professor who tore up the Proclamation that was taped to his door?

For that matter, what are your thoughts on the student who taped it to his door?

[The Folk Prophet]

11 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

BTW, what are y'all's thoughts on the BYU professor who tore up the Proclamation that was taped to his door?

For that matter, what are your thoughts on the student who taped it to his door?

Source?

[Vort]

10 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

BTW, what are y'all's thoughts on the BYU professor who tore up the Proclamation that was taped to his door?

He's a fool. Aside from the foolishness of his politics, he inserted himself personally into a contentious issue by scolding those of his students who voted in a way he didn't like. That was a 100% self-inflicted wound. He could have just left his mouth shut (figuratively).

10 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

For that matter, what are your thoughts on the student who taped it to his door?

Shame on him for inflaming the issue, but honestly I put almost no blame on him. He should not be grandstanding with the word of God, but I find his reaction a great deal more understandable than his professor's.

[LDSGator]

https://thecougarchronicle.com/you-probably-dont-believe-the-book-of-mormon-anti-trump-professor-doubles-down/
 

is this it?

[Carborendum]

8 minutes ago, Vort said:

He's a fool.

I found the following excerpt to be the greatest evidence that this is true:

Quote

Prof: There is every indication that Trump is an evil man.
Stud: Do you think Harris is any better?  She wants to kill babies!

Prof: No, she doesn't.
Stud: She's pro-abortion.

Prof: No, she isn't.

I can see a lot of other arguments going around.  But to say that Kamala is NOT pro-abortion???

[The Folk Prophet]

6 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

https://thecougarchronicle.com/you-probably-dont-believe-the-book-of-mormon-anti-trump-professor-doubles-down/
 

is this it?

This very, very anti-Trump stance is not uncommon among Latter-day saints (relatively speaking, depending on what one means by "common"). My wife has an uncle who sees things this way. There's a website called the Moroni Project that's about the same p.o.v. It's not unsurprising that a BYU professor sees things that way.

I guess the thing I find strange is that they aren't flipping the same way over Kamala, Clinton (both of them), Obama, and Biden. All of them are just as "evil" as the next.

Edited November 11 by The Folk Prophet

[Carborendum]

4 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I guess the thing I find strange is that they aren't flipping the same way over Kamala, Clinton (both of them), Obama, and Biden. All of them are just as "evil" as the next.

Exactly.  The professor ignores (denies) the fact that the Democrat candidates are just as evil (if not more).  But he gives full-throated disparagement of Trump.  Then he claims that he was being politically neutral???

[LDSGator]

8 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

This very, very anti-Trump stance is not uncommon among Latter-day saints

All irrelevant now, same with the NeverTrump republicans. Sure, they can raise a fuss about his policies, but they are so little in number that their voice doesn’t matter to anyone but themselves. 

Edited November 11 by LDSGator