Did the church cease to Exist?

[Hemidakota]

Being a former Catholic, take the last with a measure of serenity.

[CatholicGirl]

Thank you. I suppose I need to calm down a little. I just didn't come here to have my intelligence picked on. I thought I could have a good discussion. From now on, I guess I'll just talk to my friends when I have a question, because I don't think I'm contributing much by getting into arguments like this one. Thanks to those of you who made being on here worthwhile, such as Vanhin, skippy740 (I think that's his number...) and FlyontheWall.

God Bless

CG

[THIRDpersonviewer]

Christ SAID "This is my church". So now are you claiming that he didn't say that? How can that be construed as an opinion? Many people say that the Catholic Church became untrue or whatever, but it is common opinion that it WAS started by Christ. You are arguing your own religion with this, because I thought that the LDS believe that Christ started the Church, but then the Church fell away. (Maybe I have been told wrong. At this point I'm not sure what to believe, because I have heard very different answers from my friends and this forum.)

Christianity was started by Christ. Salvation through a belief in Christ. That is His Church. That process of gaining Salvation by believing in Him(Christ's Church). The Roman Catholic Church did not exist till 328 Ad, or something like that. When Emperor Constantine made Christianity the official state religion and MEN met to determine the "true doctrines of God." This is where we get the creeds such as Nicean. This is when the Roman Catholic Church formed.

[a-train]

This kind of argument is worthless. We could say that the man Abraham started Judaism. Perhaps Moses. Some could say that the disciples started Christianity. It is understood that men were the instrument in God's hands at every institution of His message to the world. The question of Joseph Smith comes down to whether or not He received what he offered from God.

-a-train

[Smiley1]

This kind of argument is worthless. We could say that the man Abraham started Judaism. Perhaps Moses. Some could say that the disciples started Christianity. It is understood that men were the instrument in God's hands at every institution of His message to the world. The question of Joseph Smith comes down to whether or not He received what he offered from God.

-a-train

Well... how is there one true church if all are started by God then? By your reasoning, God started the LDS faith, the Catholic faith, and every Christian denomination out there... like Born Agains, Christian Science (who was started by Mary Baker Eddy), etc. So there are thousands of true churches.

[Hemidakota]

Smiley, what is your theological background?

[THIRDpersonviewer]

Well... how is there one true church if all are started by God then? By your reasoning, God started the LDS faith, the Catholic faith, and every Christian denomination out there... like Born Agains, Christian Science (who was started by Mary Baker Eddy), etc. So there are thousands of true churches.

They have aspects of the truth but not all of the truth(fullness of the truth). There is only one true Church with the power and authority given by God to men, to administer the Gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness to the children of men.

[rameumptom]

Christ SAID "This is my church". So now are you claiming that he didn't say that? How can that be construed as an opinion? Many people say that the Catholic Church became untrue or whatever, but it is common opinion that it WAS started by Christ. You are arguing your own religion with this, because I thought that the LDS believe that Christ started the Church, but then the Church fell away. (Maybe I have been told wrong. At this point I'm not sure what to believe, because I have heard very different answers from my friends and this forum.)

The problem comes from the idea of a Papacy. While the Catholic Church believes the Peter was the first Pope, history does make it questionable on a direct papal line from Peter to Benedict. For example, the bishops were all considered equal for centuries. In fact, at one time, the bishop of Jerusalem was considered higher than the Bishop of Rome. Of course, then we have the issue of the Patriarch, or bishop of Constantinople, who held as much authority as the Bishop in Rome. Due to the insistence that the Pope held supreme authority and all the keys of Peter's papacy, the Christian Church divided in half about a millennium ago.

So, while we all agree that Jesus started His Church and it continued through his apostles. The question is whether it continued down to the modern day, and if so, which Church did it continue through. For all we know, it could have been the Patriarch of Constantinople (Eastern Orthodox) who held the keys of Peter, and not the Pope. Or, as the LDS believe, the authority was lost along the way, with the death of the apostles and the loss of continuing revelation. This required God to send angels to restore priesthood authority, and continuing revelation.

[Snow]

Snow, I always read your posts because you are one of the brighter bulbs on this forum tree and you always seem to have a different view for me to consider. May I advise you on a little tiny matter? Our friend Catholic Girl did not come here to hear anything said by anyone that is not a support of the Catholic view. I do not think our friend has a grasp of history (how the Dark Ages came to be) and the disputes between Catholic and Eastern Orthodox. I am quite certain she has no clue who the Nestorian Christians of the East are nor does she have any idea under heaven of their history or claims to Christ as their origin.

When the Pharisees, Scribes and Jews judged Jesus unto death; a man named Nicodemus asked a most interesting question. He asked, “Does our Law judge a man before it has heard him?” Now I may be wrong and if I am it most likely will not be the first or the last time but it does appear to me that Catholic Girl has judged the “Mormons” before she had heard them speak. And I am not sure but I do not think she can hear any of us speak even now.

The Traveler

Thanks Traveler.

Should she stick around long enough, like the rest of us, she'll learn a good deal before she's through.

[Snow]

Christ SAID "This is my church". So now are you claiming that he didn't say that? How can that be construed as an opinion? Many people say that the Catholic Church became untrue or whatever, but it is common opinion that it WAS started by Christ. You are arguing your own religion with this, because I thought that the LDS believe that Christ started the Church, but then the Church fell away. (Maybe I have been told wrong. At this point I'm not sure what to believe, because I have heard very different answers from my friends and this forum.)

I'm not sure which passage you are referring to but regardless, He didn't say The RCC is my Church.

The RCC didn't originate at the time of Christ. What we know as the RCC came much later. Yes, I understand that you believe that they are one in the same and that Catholic Tradition holds they are one in the same but tradition is not history.

That is not to say that you are wrong (although I think you are); your beliefs are just as valid to you as mine are to me. I simply encourage you to study and learn what things historical facts can demonstrate what things you must accept on faith.

[Vanhin]

I think CatholicGirl left. So, she might not be answering.

Vanhin