Going western and hat making....

[Jamie123]

On 11/18/2024 at 8:28 PM, zil2 said:

So when are you changing your screen name to "The Mad Hatter" or maybe "The Mad Cowboy Hatter"?

For years I thought the expression "mad as a hatter" came from Alice in Wonderland. It actually predates that book by a long time. I comes from when a lot of mercury went into the making of hats, and hatters who'd been exposed to if for a long time suffered mercury poisoning. Mercury (as you know) attacks the nervous system and it made hatters act strangely - perhaps a bit like the Mad Hatter.

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

For years I thought the expression "mad as a hatter" came from Alice in Wonderland. It actually predates that book by a long time. I comes from when a lot of mercury went into the making of hats, and hatters who'd been exposed to if for a long time suffered mercury poisoning. Mercury (as you know) attacks the nervous system and it made hatters act strangely - perhaps a bit like the Mad Hatter.

Interestingly, my understanding is that elemental mercury is in the main completely inert and poses no chemical health risk to people. (Maybe it's dangerous if you drink it, for physical and possibly chemical reasons.) As a child, I used to play with mercury from broken thermometers and such. And look at me! I'm perfectly normal!

Also, mercury per se is no more dangerous than any other heavy metal, e.g. gold, except that mercury combines into compounds more readily than gold and thus is more available for uptake into our bodies. Lead is much more reactive than mercury, and we all know how dangerous lead compounds are.

[zil2]

36 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

For years I thought the expression "mad as a hatter" came from Alice in Wonderland. It actually predates that book by a long time. I comes from when a lot of mercury went into the making of hats, and hatters who'd been exposed to if for a long time suffered mercury poisoning. Mercury (as you know) attacks the nervous system and it made hatters act strangely - perhaps a bit like the Mad Hatter.

Yes, I knew that!    And as I recall, it was specific to making felt-based hats (as opposed to, say straw or floppy canvas (or whatever fabric they use) caps or something).

[zil2]

31 minutes ago, Vort said:

I'm perfectly normal!

[Carborendum]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

As a child, I used to play with mercury from broken thermometers and such. And look at me! I'm perfectly normal!

Well I actually ate a drop of mercury as a teenager, and ... well... uhm... nevermind.

[Vort]

36 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Well I actually ate a drop of mercury as a teenager, and ... well... uhm... nevermind.

Have you ever considered the occupation of hatmaking?

[Carborendum]

18 minutes ago, Vort said:

Have you ever considered the occupation of hatmaking?

No, I leave that to TFP.  

[The Folk Prophet]

I started 2 new hats today. One for my wife:

And another for myself:

(Obviously I haven't ironed the brim yet in this picture.)

A few tidbits:

1. I went with a 6 inch crown for both of these, vs. the 5.5 I did on the last one.

2. Instead of wool, both of these are 100% rabbit felt.

3. Wetting, steaming, shaping, and ironing these made the whole house stink like wet rabbit. It smells kind of like wet dog, only....rabbittier.
 

Anyhow, the last one I made was a bit too tight on my forehead and a wee bit too loose on my temples. So I had an idea. First, I got some crafting wire that bends easily, but holds it's shape too. I twisted it onto my head until it felt just tight enough to stay in place but not so tight it was uncomfortable. Then I pressed all around it, molding it to my head shape. Then I traced the outside of it and cut it out in paper:

I traced the outside instead of the inside, because I wanted to allow for the sweatband I'll sew into the hat later.

Then I got some pink XPS foam and traced it onto that:

Then cut it out. This was an interesting thing to figure out. The XPS I got is 2 inches thick. I tried a serrated kitchen knife...no...then a hack saw...no. Then I got out my saws-all and just hacked out the general shape, leaving extra room, and then my electric belt sander to shape it. That worked. This was the end result:

The egg shape of my head explains why the forehead pinches and temples are too loose when it's an oval.

Finally... stuffed it into the hat (after steaming the bottom part of the crown to soften it up a bit):

Yeah...looks like the brown one in this pic...but it's not. It's the greenish-gray (a color they called "military") one.

I was going to drill some holes in it first so I can get it out...but I didn't have a bit enough drill bit and I'm impatient. And I'd done enough with the power tools for a Sunday already. (To be fair, it was like less than 2 min of power tools. Is that breaking the Sabbath? ). But it's foam. I can just stab something into it to get it back out (I hope). And I was impatient.

Not showing in the pictures (well, sort of dangling down in that last one), I put the cord back around the base to snug it up to the foam so it dries to that shape. We'll see how it works out. I think it will! Now for 2 days of drying time.

Edited December 9, 2024 by The Folk Prophet

[The Folk Prophet]

I just realized that if there's any divergence in the left to the right side of my head that I didn't pay attention to which side was up...and if I put it in upside-down then the left will be on the right and the right on the.... I'm sure the differences, if any, are not going to make a difference. It's mostly the forehead issue I'm trying to solve without actually sizing up the hat. But.... well...lesson noted for next time, just in case.

[The Folk Prophet]

Well... sanding the rabbit felt made it just as splotchy as the wool was. So apparently it wasn't the "cheap wool's" fault. Argh.

I'm trying a technique called "Luring" (or oiling/greasing) to smooth it out. Basically...I just rubbed a small amount of Vaseline into the felt. We'll see. It's entirely possible I'll ruin this one.

[The Folk Prophet]

Finished (sort of...more on that)...the "military" colored one:

(note: this pic shows the color a lot better. The previous ones it looked gray and brown in the pics. This is more accurate. It's a green hat. No getting around it.)

When I say sort of...it's for a few reasons. Putting aside that the shaping was sloppy, I didn't sand this one to see how it turned out. And....I dunno. The color stayed consistent but I think I'm going to sand it. Also, the underside of the brim has some wrinkles where it just didn't quite get ironed and smoothed well enough. And, finally, even though I tried the head shaping thing with the pink foam, it's still just a hair too snug for my tastes. I got another block that's a half-size up and so I think I'll reblock it and start over.

I don't love the green color anyhow...(I mean, it's fine. Just not going to be my favorite), so it's a perfect opportunity to experiment a bit and re-block, try again, etc.

I watched a video with an old pro hat maker and he used coconut oil to smooth out the color after sanding. So I'll try that with this hat. I used vasoline on the brown one I'm making for my wife and it did work somewhat. Maybe coconut oil won't be any different but I'll try it.

Also...I started my first fedora hat. My dad wanted a fedora, so I'm making him one for Christmas. He wanted gray:

I want to shape it like the Indiana Jones gray fedora in Raiders:

But my dad likes the softer, rounder look better I think:

So that's probably more the shape we'll go for.

Edited December 17, 2024 by The Folk Prophet

[The Folk Prophet]

Finished my first fedora:

 

 

Needs a wee bit more work on the shaping. But.... Made it as a gift for one of my brothers.

[Colirio]

TFP, just wanted to pop in here and commend you on your hats! Well done. 
 

For some strange reason, I started following blade_hats on Instagram about a year ago because his videos are fascinating to me. I think I have learned more about hat making from watching his videos than anywhere else. Which is odd, because I don’t believe it’s ever been an interest of mine, nor do I even wear hats. But still fascinating. 
 

Anyhow, well done on your efforts. And let me know what you think of some of blade_hats processes. (Even if his style is not what you are going for.) 

 

https://www.instagram.com/blade_hats/?hl=en

[Vort]

I sometimes rue my fate of being born after the period where hat-wearing was a practice. (Real hats, not baseball caps.)

[The Folk Prophet]

On 12/28/2024 at 12:11 PM, Vort said:

I sometimes rue my fate of being born after the period where hat-wearing was a practice. (Real hats, not baseball caps.)

You're old enough that you could start wearing a fedora everywhere and everyone would just think..."Yep. Old man in a fedora. Sounds about right."

[The Folk Prophet]

Finished my dad's hat. Sort of:

I say sort of because it needs the liner still. And I think a different ribbon color.

And it's kind of splotchy in color. Here it is with flash:

I've done a ton to try and get the color smoothed out, but no success. Finding resources that teach how to avoid or fix that is nigh unto impossible. Hints here and there, but those I've tried havn't worked.  (Oh... the ribbon I'll try next is the one you can see next to it in the above pic (if anyone's interested). I don't know if it'll work. My dad wanted a matching ribbon. But getting a matching ribbon has proven to be a nightmare. I've bought so many ribbons! We may end up defaulting to a black ribbon. We'll see.)

Okay...the next hat started...

My brother requested what he called a "far side cowboy hat" and sent me this strip:



And here's the hat post blocking and cutting the brim. (Side note: That's as wide as I could make the brim. I'd have gone wider if possible...but making the crown that tall meant I had to cut the brim to 4 inches and BARELY had 4 inches to do it. I would have gone to 4.5 or even 5 inches if possible. But it'll work.)

It's a 7" crown. Which...these hat blanks were not made for a 7" crown! Argh. Hardest thing I've blocked and still has some serious issues. You can't see it from this angle, but the brim is totally wrinkly. I don't know if I'll be able to get the wrinkles out. I've ironed and ironed. I'll sand and iron some more, but....???

The lines on the bottom of the crown will be covered by a 2" wide band. But I had to wrap the blocking cord around it that much to get that part to form to the block. It was wrinkly and loose there too.

Anyhow, since it's going to, essentially, be a novelty hat in the end, if it's not perfect, so what? A far side hat? Really bro? But it's a fun challenge, so I'm game.

Edited December 30, 2024 by The Folk Prophet

[Colirio]

9 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I've done a ton to try and get the color smoothed out, but no success. Finding resources that teach how to avoid or fix that is nigh unto impossible. Hints here and there, but those I've tried havn't worked.

TFP, any chance you looked up blade_hats on Instagram as I linked earlier? While his videos aren’t tutorials, I definitely have seen some “hints” from the many ones he’s posted during the making process. 
 

Maybe no help at all for you, but definitely has a lot of ideas. 

[The Folk Prophet]

14 hours ago, Colirio said:

TFP, any chance you looked up blade_hats on Instagram as I linked earlier? While his videos aren’t tutorials, I definitely have seen some “hints” from the many ones he’s posted during the making process. 
 

Maybe no help at all for you, but definitely has a lot of ideas. 

His solution seems to be distressing all of his hats. Which is fine in theory...but I don't think my 80 year old dad wants that look.  

[Carborendum]

On 12/30/2024 at 7:34 AM, The Folk Prophet said:

Finished my dad's hat. Sort of:

I have a request of you for scientific purposes...

Can you:

• Make a hat out of soft leather
• Place your face in it
• Speak a line out of the BoM in normal tones.
• Ask if your wife (about 6 to 10 ft away) can clearly hear you

?

We have only one account of the translation process where the hat material was mentioned.  It was a beaver skin hat.

I had often wondered how clearly one can hear someone speaking in normal tones through a hat.  And to find out it was leather.. it could go either way.  I'm assuming soft leather.

Edited January 14 by Carborendum

[zil2]

16 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

about 6 to 10 ft away

Given the size of houses and their rooms back then, do you really think she was that far away?

[Carborendum]

6 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Given the size of houses and their rooms back then, do you really think she was that far away?

That's a reasonable question.  I'm going to start another thread.

 

Edited January 14 by Carborendum

[The Folk Prophet]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I have a request of you for scientific purposes...

Can you:

• Make a hat out of soft leather
• Place your face in it
• Speak a line out of the BoM in normal tones.
• Ask if your wife (about 6 to 10 ft away) can clearly hear you

?

We have only one account of the translation process where the hat material was mentioned.  It was a beaver skin hat.

I had often wondered how clearly one can hear someone speaking in normal tones through a hat.  And to find out it was leather.. it could go either way.  I'm assuming soft leather.

Skin?

Seems much more likely that it was beaver felt. But... maybe.

Anyhow, assuming the hat idea is the way it was done.... look, read, lift head, and speak. You don't have to keep the head buried unless your memory is abysmal. Which even then, bury the head again and re-read to verify. It doesn't require speaking through the hat.

That being said... I can say with 100% certainty that you could put your face in a hat, leather, felt, or otherwise, and speak to someone 6 feet away and they'd hear you perfectly fine.

[Carborendum]

7 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Skin?

Seems much more likely that it was beaver felt.

No, it was specifically called "skin".  But when they said the phrase "beaver skin" it included the fur.  The style was usually like a Davy Crockett coonskin had with tail and all.

[The Folk Prophet]

8 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

No, it was specifically called "skin".  But when they said the phrase "beaver skin" it included the fur.  The style was usually like a Davy Crockett coonskin had with tail and all.

Yeah, that's what I imagined. Which...yeah. Maybe it was a davy crocket. That might muffle the voice a bit I suppose. Doubtful enough to matter in an otherwise quiet room.

[Carborendum]

2 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Yeah, that's what I imagined. Which...yeah. Maybe it was a davy crocket. That might muffle the voice a bit I suppose. Doubtful enough to matter in an otherwise quiet room.

I understand if it would take too much time.  I was just curious.