Elder McConkie?

[THIRDpersonviewer]

I was just curious has to how Elder McConkie is viewed here. There are those that greatly admire him, like me. Then there are those who hate him because of his usual blunt stand on things. If he isn't viewed in much light, then why?

[Ray A]

I was just curious has to how Elder McConkie is viewed here. There are those that greatly admire him, like me. Then there are those who hate him because of his usual blunt stand on things. If he isn't viewed in much light, then why?

I think Bruce McConkie was a great and loyal man with a fervent testimony. His book Mormon Doctrine was not "torn apart" by critics, but by Elder Mark E. Petersen, who made 1,067 corrections to it.

Elder Marion G. Romney also wrote this:

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

The Council of the Twelve

47 E. South Temple

Salt Lake City, Utah

January 28, 1959

President David O. McKay

Building

Dear President McKay:

This is my report on MORMON DOCTRINE, by Bruce R. McConkie, which on January 5, you asked me to read.

The book is a 776 page work which, in the words of the author, purports to be, ‘the first major attempt to digest, explain, and analyze all of the important doctrines of the kingdom . . . . . the first extensive compendium of the whole gospel—the first attempt to publish an encyclopedic commentary covering the whole field of revealed religion.’

‘For the work itself,’ the author assumes the ‘sole and full responsibility.’ (Exhibit I) (The exhibits cited in this report consist of printed pages from the book. The statements in point are underscored in red.)

Preparation of the volume has entailed much study and research. Its favorable reception evidences a felt need for such a treatise.

The author is an able and thorough student of the gospel. In many respects he has produced a remarkable book. Properly used, it quickly introduces the student to the authorities on most any gospel subject.

As to the book itself, notwithstanding its many commendable and valuable features and the author’s assumption of ‘sole and full responsibility’ for it, its nature and scope and the authoritative tone of the style in which it is written pose the question as to the propriety of the author’s attempting such a project without assignment and supervision from him whose right and responsibility it is to speak for the Church on ‘Mormon Doctrine.’ Had the work been authoritatively supervised, some of the following matters might have been omitted and the treatment of others modified.

A. Reference to churches and other groups who do not accept ‘Mormon Doctrine’.

1. ‘Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,’ who sometimes refer to themselves as ‘Josephites’. (Exhibit II-1, pages 50, 141, 362)

2. ‘Christian Churches’ generally. (Exhibit II-2, pages 139, 455)

3. ‘Catholic Church’. (Exhibit II-3, pages 13, 66, 69, 129, 130, 216, 241, 314-15, 342, 346, 350, 422, 499, 511, 697)

4. Communists and Catholics. (Exhibit II-4, pages 26-7, 131)

5. Evolution and Evolutionists. (Exhibit II-5, pages 37, 77, 136, 180, 228, 238, 659)

B. Declaration as to ‘Mormon Doctrine’ on controversial issues.

1. ‘Pre-Adamites’. (Exhibit III-1, pages 17, 262)

2. Status of Animals and Plants in the Garden of Eden. (Exhibit III-2, pages 36, 234-35)

3. Meaning of the various accounts of Creation. (exhibit III_3, pages 157-8, 167-8)

4. Dispensation of Abraham. (Exhibit III-4, page 203)

5. Moses a translated being. (Exhibit III_5, pages 206, 445, 466, 727-8)

6. Origin of Individuality. (Exhibit III-6, page 404)

7. Defiling the priesthood. (Exhibit III-7, page 437)

8. Manner in which Jesus was Begotten. (Exhibit III-8, page 494)

9. Written sermons. (Exhibit III-9, pages 634-5, 716)

10. Resurrection of stillborn children. (Exhibit III-10, page 694)

C. Miscellaneous Interpretations (Exhibit IV)

Frequency of Administrations, page 22

Baptism in the ‘molten sea,’ page 98

II Peter 1:19, page 102

Paul married, page 112

Status of those ‘with Christ in His Resurrection', page 128

Consecration of oil, page 147

Councils and schools among the Gods, page 151

Limitations on Deity, page 154

Sunday not a proper day for family reunions, page 254

Geological changes at time of the deluge, page 268

The Holy Ghost a spirit man, page 329

Facing east in temples when giving the Hosanna Shout, page 337

Details on family prayer and asking the blessing on food, page 526

Women to be gods, page 551

Interpretations of the Doctrine and Covenants 93:1, page 581

Interpretation of “Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning,” page 606

Status of little children in the celestial kingdom, page 607

Resumption of schools of the prophets, page 613

Time of beginning of seasons, page 616

Interpretation of III Nephi 12:20, page 618

D. Repeated use of the word ‘apostate’ and related terms in a way which to many seems discourteous and to others gives offense. (Exhibit V, pages 123, 125, 160, 169, 212, 223, 383, 538, 546, 548, 596)

Faithfully and Respectfully submitted,

[signed]

Marion G. Romney

The story of why it continued to be published is much longer.

Maybe next time.

[Over43]

I am one who is old enough to have grown up with the presence of Elder McConkie at all my youthful general conferences. He was blunt, he might have been one of the last of the "old fashioned" apostles as far as not being media conscious is concerned. He told it the way it was. He seems to have acquired a hero worship contigency that followed his every move and probably spent more time reading Mormon Doctrine that the standard works. Which isn't his fault. I had his son for a religion class at BYU 2 decades ago, and have to say that Brother McConkie was the best religion teacher I ever had. If the son was like the father, then the father was certainly a heck of a guy.

O43

[Over43]

I am one who is old enough to have grown up with the presence of Elder McConkie at all my youthful general conferences. He was blunt, he might have been one of the last of the "old fashioned" apostles as far as not being media conscious is concerned. He told it the way it was. He seems to have acquired a hero worship contigency that followed his every move and probably spent more time reading Mormon Doctrine that the standard works. Which isn't his fault. I had his son for a religion class at BYU 2 decades ago, and have to say that Brother McConkie was the best religion teacher I ever had. If the son was like the father, then the father was certainly a heck of a guy.

O43

[NeuroTypical]

I agree with 95% of everything I've ever heard come out of Elder McConkie. But dang - that last 5% sure is a doozy!

LM

[Hemidakota]

Adding to Ray interesting letter:

Meridian Magazine :: Books : The Bruce R. McConkie Story

[tubaloth]

I was a big fan of Elder McConkie. I liked his boldness, then on my mission I hard a couple of the things about Mormon Doctrine and I was to some extent shocked (and probably disappointed). But over time as I have read more from his works (A New Witness to the Articles of Faith is a great book all need to read) to some of his talks. I have turned back to liking the guy again. I do realize not everything he wrote is doctrine, but I do realize he gives most people a good head start in studying the gospel. He does try to (when he can) to include the scriptures that are needed! He doesn't just go off and expect anybody to accept what he wrote. I think the biggest problem Elder McConkie had was more just the title of his book, it if was called something different then mormon Doctrine, it probably wouldn't have gotten as much attention

[Canuck Mormon]

Maybe if he smiled more, I wouldn't think he was a "Grumpy Old Man". He is very knowledgeable though, just seems grumpy to me.

[Hemidakota]

Meridian Magazine :: Books : The Bruce R. McConkie Story

See the first image...I think this was his picture.

[Canuck Mormon]

For some stupid reason, I got him mixed up with Boyd K. Packer. Sorry.

[Guest tomk]

I was just curious has to how Elder McConkie is viewed here. There are those that greatly admire him, like me. Then there are those who hate him because of his usual blunt stand on things. If he isn't viewed in much light, then why?

I'd probably say it matters more how God views him, than how we do.

Some viewed him as a bit controversial in some of his views, like his condemnation of the Catholic church for corrupting the Bible. I'm ignorant on that subject. I'll just say I have my own beliefs on that and leave it at that.

In case you did not know, he died quite a while ago.

[skalenfehl]

I don't see him any differently than any of the apostles of the New Testament, who spoke with boldness and viewed as controversial. I enjoyed the last talk that he gave before he died.

His last talk

Here is an excellent article that I saved while on my mission from the 1985 Ensign magazine:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie:

“Preacher of Righteousness”

The most poignant quote from him that riveted me:

“I am one of his witnesses, and in a coming day I shall feel the nail marks in his hands and in his feet and shall wet his feet with my tears.

“But I shall not know any better then than I know now that he is God’s Almighty Son, that he is our Savior and Redeemer, and that salvation comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way.”

[rameumptom]

I think Elder McConkie moved the gospel forward in many ways during his time as an apostle. He was head of the project to create the LDS version of the scriptures, including the Topical Guide, footnotes, etc. He was a prolific writer, whose ideas caused me to consider many gospel topics in new ways.

As it is, I also saw many of his views change over time in his own writings. Mormon Doctrine has a very different feel than the Messiah series, for instance.

Was everything he wrote/said doctrine? Of course not. Even he admitted his mistake on blacks and the priesthood, for example. But it was great to see he was open minded enough and humble enough to listen to the Leaders, when they told him to revise Mormon Doctrine, or when a new revelation came about that disproved one of his theories. I use him as a reference, but not as my only reference. And I realize that his writings were written in a very authoritative voice, which sometimes is hard to stomach. But I look past the lack of tact, and to the things he taught.

Of course, the greatest thing he said was his final testimony in General Conference.

[Elgama]

His son Joseph Fielding McConkie was the first church member I met after the missionaries that knocked on the door he was one of those men who's spirit blows you away, as a result I read a lot of Bruce R McConkie;s work and I think its great it truly embodies the spirit of me what a Latter Day Saint is all about - I don't agree with everythng he has said but until the prophet speaks and makes something doctrine we should be able to discuss look at and believe anything that doesn't conflict with our canon. Its how things worked in the church early in this dispensation,

What I love about the church is how the doctrine is as simple or as complicated as you are willing to make it - I love being able to use the comfort blanket of knowing how to live my life and being on the right path one day and the next thinking about the multiverse theories and how they fit in with the gospel. People who hate Bruce R McConkie are the same people that think we shouldn't discuss the mysteries of God. I am having frustrating time trying to find a scripture we have done recently at church so is in second Nephi that talks about if we have the right foundation learning is good will try and find it tonight.

-Charley

[Over43]

I recall Elder McConkie speaking to the group of missionaries I was with in the Fall of 1983 in the MTC. He was warm, funny, and very informative. If I remember correctly he was "different" than the person we would see in General Conference.

O43

[Hemidakota]

I am having frustrating time trying to find a scripture we have done recently at church so is in second Nephi that talks about if we have the right foundation learning is good will try and find it tonight.

-Charley

Is it 2 Nephi 28:28?

[Ray A]

I am having frustrating time trying to find a scripture we have done recently at church so is in second Nephi that talks about if we have the right foundation learning is good will try and find it tonight.

-Charley

Try 2 Nephi 9: 28-29:

28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. 29 But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.

[Elgama]

Is it 2 Nephi 28:28?

Thank you yes its 2 Nephi 28:26-30 I think its OK to have conflicts or different views on things that don't conflict with scripture because we are all at different stages of progression and learning. For example someone who has done physics at school will be told at university more or less to forget what they learned and start with an open mind because the understanding of the rules change as your learning increases. The Historical facts you learn as a child as you progress become changeable - or questionable. The things you learn as a child are not wrong they are stepping stones to learning at a higher level. When we are ready to know the facts in full the prophet speaks and gives us Heavenly Fathers truth

-Charley

[Elgama]

Try 2 Nephi 9: 28-29:

That one is even better Ray thank you even though its not the one I had in mind it is a perfect second witness:)

-Charley

[Hemidakota]

The biggest one for me was the old notion, the Dinos died out when Noah entered the ark....laughter.

I have to look back to find the talk where someone mentioned, in the eternal worlds, there are difference of opinions between the eternal ones.

[Moksha]

It always seemed to me that Elder McConkie was one of the proponents of a harsh side to Mormonism. I prefer the loving side.

[Vanilla]

I'd probably say it matters more how God views him, than how we do.

I have to agree with TomK.

He wrote and said many things, but one stands out in my mind....his testimony of Christ in the form of a hymn. This hymn moves me to tears almost every time I hear or sing it. I can honestly say that I can not remember a single time that I have sung this song that I did not have a burning witness in my soul as to the true nature of our Savior!

I believe in Christ; he is my King!

With all my heart to him I’ll sing;

I’ll raise my voice in praise and joy,

In grand amens my tongue employ.

I believe in Christ; he is God’s Son.

On earth to dwell his soul did come.

He healed the sick; the dead he raised.

Good works were his; his name be praised.

I believe in Christ; oh blessed name!

As Mary’s Son he came to reign

’Mid mortal men, his earthly kin,

To save them from the woes of sin.

I believe in Christ, who marked the path,

Who did gain all his Father hath,

Who said to men: "Come, follow me,

That ye, my friends, with God may be."

I believe in Christ—my Lord, my God!

My feet he plants on gospel sod.

I’ll worship him with all my might;

He is the source of truth and light.

I believe in Christ; he ransoms me.

From Satan’s grasp he sets me free,

And I shall live with joy and love

In his eternal courts above.

I believe in Christ; he stands supreme!

From him I’ll gain my fondest dream;

And while I strive through grief and pain,

His voice is heard: "Ye shall obtain."

I believe in Christ; so come what may,

With him I’ll stand in that great day

When on this earth he comes again

To rule among the sons of men.

[Hemidakota]

I do believe, prior to the Savior returns, we will have a prophet that I would call him 'Joseph Smith Junior'; knowing his abilities will be a seer who can translate the reminder plates, have the wisdom of Solomon, and lead the church into that era called the Terrestrial state for the earth. Noting Elder McConkie steadfastness but filled with humility, not afraid of world to bend to its dogmas. Same quality character traits.

[skalenfehl]

I have to agree with TomK.

He wrote and said many things, but one stands out in my mind....his testimony of Christ in the form of a hymn. This hymn moves me to tears almost every time I hear or sing it. I can honestly say that I can not remember a single time that I have sung this song that I did not have a burning witness in my soul as to the true nature of our Savior!

I believe in Christ; he is my King!

With all my heart to him I’ll sing;

I’ll raise my voice in praise and joy,

In grand amens my tongue employ.

I believe in Christ; he is God’s Son.

On earth to dwell his soul did come.

He healed the sick; the dead he raised.

Good works were his; his name be praised.

I believe in Christ; oh blessed name!

As Mary’s Son he came to reign

’Mid mortal men, his earthly kin,

To save them from the woes of sin.

I believe in Christ, who marked the path,

Who did gain all his Father hath,

Who said to men: "Come, follow me,

That ye, my friends, with God may be."

I believe in Christ—my Lord, my God!

My feet he plants on gospel sod.

I’ll worship him with all my might;

He is the source of truth and light.

I believe in Christ; he ransoms me.

From Satan’s grasp he sets me free,

And I shall live with joy and love

In his eternal courts above.

I believe in Christ; he stands supreme!

From him I’ll gain my fondest dream;

And while I strive through grief and pain,

His voice is heard: "Ye shall obtain."

I believe in Christ; so come what may,

With him I’ll stand in that great day

When on this earth he comes again

To rule among the sons of men.

That is a beautiful hymn. To listen to it click the following link and on the top left of the window, select "words and music", and click the play button.

I Believe In Christ hymn

[a-train]

I'm going to start a new thread where we will judge each of the prophets and apostles one by one.

Frankly, I honor the service of them all and make no attempt to judge them.

-a-train