100 questions...

[skalenfehl]

My next question is a little complicated. I have read Moroni’s chapter 10 promise many times and discussed it many times and I think I understand what it is saying pretty well. Right now I am in the middle of doing my part and trying to learn as much as I can so that when I ask God if it is true he will be obligated to answer me. I have asked 100 people how they know the answer is the answer and get the same response phrased a few different ways. My question is: How will I know that the feeling I get is an answer from God and not just me wanting it to be true? Because, being honest to myself, I really do. It would make my girlfriend happy and the elders happy and my new mormon friends happy. It would make me happy. I could get married. With all of that I think I will convince myself it is true even if it isn’t. I think I will try and make myself feel a feeling like a burning bosom or a still small voice. And so far I like the lds church very much but if its not what I’m told it is I don’t want to make any promises or covenants with it.

Oh yeah, and just because I ask a new question doesn’t mean I’m done with the old ones. Newcomers feel free to add more if you have different thoughts!

Another forum member, an atheist, is asking similar questions. In his "How deep do you believe?" topic, he invited us to answer this. One of my replies is:

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/10094-how-deep-do-you-believe-11.html#post178125

Also please read the following testimonies of those who have shared their experiences of how they came to know that the Book of Mormon is true. I think you will find the posts inspirational:

http://www.lds.net/forums/prayers-testimonies/10069-your-book-mormon-story.html

[Flyonthewall]

You might want to open a new thread for each new question, as it could make this thread quite cumbersome with more than one subject being discussed.

As for your question as to how to know the feeling you get is from G_d: Well, the standard answer would be a "burning in your bosom", but it could be a little different for each person. Don't go into it trying to force something, but be open to the Holy Ghost, and let Him guide you. One prayer may not be enough, but be prayerful throughout your investigation.

[MaidservantX]

In the interest of giving you different viewpoints, I will share my experience of my testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and of the Restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

My mother was a member of the Church; and later my step-father. So I grew up in the Church. I was baptized at the age of 8. I attended Primary (children's) classes; I attended youth classes; I attended seminary; I attended church each week. Certain things were done in my home, such as family prayer. I was taught to pay my tithing. I had pioneer ancestors. And so forth. Certainly there were challenges to my life -- my parents didn't have a lot of money; there was divorce; etc.

But as a young person I had a great desire to know God and to do what I believed He wanted me to do, and I made choices based on that desire, trying to be obedient. I recall praying about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon when I was 13 or 14 years old. I even went out into my backyard, perhaps attempting to recreate the conditions that seemed to have worked for Joseph Smith. :) I did not have a singular, one-time, overwhelming experience. In fact, I believed that the message I received was: Why are you asking Me a question you already know the answer to? So since I did not have a witness per se, I was left with a decision to either continue being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or to find God in a better place (for me, I would not have been able to forsake God completely. I would have wanted to find the truth.)

Despite this, I have never been a person who has experienced a lot of doubt. I am not sure why. I have had a lot of questions about the gospel and about life, but I have always had an ongoing conversation with my Father in heaven about it, and have always been able to reconcile my questions to the pathway offered in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have not systematically studied other religions and disciplines, but I have read texts and other books and otherwise learned of other religions from time to time. I have listened to many Christians, not LDS, give their beliefs. I will tell you in a minute why none of these other options appeal to me.

I started reading scriptures in seminary, and have continued into my young adulthood, married and family life, and to now. I have read the Book of Mormon more times than I can count. Even though I never had the one-time witness, I nevertheless will many times feel joy and the burning in my bosom and peace and excitement when I read things in the Book of Mormon, especially passages that teach about the mission of Jesus Christ. Speaking only for myself, when I read the Book of Mormon daily, I have more peace in my life; and when I neglect to read, I experience more chaos.

Now I will try to tell you why I will always be a member and why I do not think I will find the whole truth about God and the nature of the universe and the purpose of my life on earth, anywhere else than in this Church. Where else am I going to find the covenants? I have made several covenants and they bring spiritual richness and safety to my life. I would be loathe to leave that fold behind. Where else am I going to know that I am literally a daughter of my Father in heaven? No where else. I am not willing to disbelieve this. Where else am I going to be able to follow a living prophet? No where else. I feel a testimony that I am led by a prophet who speaks to Jesus Christ. That is such a miracle to me! I want to be a part of that! These and other things are treasures to me, and I will not find them any other place (speaking of myself).

I have had some witnesses in life. I will not recount them here. One of them was when I had a chance to hear a missionary discussion, a couple of years ago. But by this time, I had been a member for many years already, doing my best to live a disciple's life. So my witnesses have not been so much a beginning of my decision to be a part of this great cause, but a confirmation of my decision. (Again, speaking for myself.)

I do encourage you to ask God, as taught in Moroni 10. But, again, I just wanted to tell you how it was for me.

Here are some things to read that my help you understand how to recognize the Holy Ghost.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Power of a Personal Testimony

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Do You Know?

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Did You Get the Right Message?

LDS.org - Topic Definition____

LDS.org - Topic Definition____

[mnn727]

How do you know its not just wishful thinking on your part? - excellant question!

The only way I can answer is by telling you a little bit of my conversion process (I joined the Church when I was 35 years old). I studied with the missionaries and went to Church for close to a year before joining, the entire time I really wanted to know if what I was being taught was true, I read scripture and prayed daily, went to Church almost every Sunday and yet for almost a year, I never got a clearcut answer from God. I felt good about what I was learning, it seemed true to me, but still no "hit you over the head with a 2x4" type revelation. Finally I decided I had had enough and I honestly pleaded with God to tell me what he wanted of me, I would do whatever he asked but just let me know what that was. Once I was willing to 'do' or to act upon what I was being taught (as opposed to just wanting to know if it was true) I got my revelation and all I can really say is if you are ever on the receiving end of Gods direct revelation there is no mistaking it for anything else, nor is there any denying it.

Someone here mentioned a 'burning in th bosem' and while I certainly don't want to downplay someones testimony, I myself have never felt a burning in the bosem - except once when eating my cousins chili.

* As a disclaimer here: there is the New Testament stories with 2 of Christs disciples speaking of just that - a burning in the bosom.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Here's another little snippet of the Gospel according to Willow:

In response to your first question regarding the withholding of the priesthood from black church members. I do believe that this was because people were not ready. By that I don't mean that the black people were not ready. I just don't think that the majority of white people were ready to be able to take counsel from a black spiritual leader. They needed to grow and learn that all of us are equal. When Heavenly Father felt that the time was right when all white men would take instruction from a black Bishop then he instructed the church leaders that the priesthood was open to all.

In response to your second question, I'd like to invite you to read my testimony which you can reach by looking at my profile. I too was once like you not sure of how I would know for certain that the church is true. I pray that you will discover this for yourself and that you and your girlfriend will have a long and happy life together.

[MaidservantX]

To clarify, the three witnesses I feel that I have had, none were burning in the bosom. But I do feel joy energy at times, when reading scriptures, attending the temple, serving someone, etc. and I call that burning in the bosom well enough.

The time I had a witness while listening to the missionary discussion, it was similar to being in a dim room and then having the curtains raise and all the light comes in. It wasn't really in the vicinity of my heart -- it was just like there wasn't a veil anymore between me and the Father. I could see with unutterable simplicity that what they were saying was true. They were doing the 'first' discussion, so I believe they were speaking regarding that I had a heavenly Father who loves me and that He speaks to us and me by sending his prophets to the earth. (Among other things, I'm sure.)

The other two witnesses were in the vicinity of my heart, but I would characterize one like Mary felt when the baby leapt in her for the spirit of the baby that was in her cousin Elizabeth. Something in my spirit leapt in recognition of the Spirit in the situation I was in (it was in regards to Pres. Ezra Taft Benson being the prophet of God). The third one was when I stood in front of the statues of Joseph and Hyrum Smith in temple square and I felt that a message was transmitted to me -- one I hadn't particularly asked for -- regarding the love that the two brothers had between each other. It consumed me for a brief moment.

I also know other things are true not so much from a witness but because of experience. I know that prayers are answered because all of mine have been -- so that is 100 for a 100, ha ha, and I would be staring the evidence in the face to believe otherwise. Similarly with the law of tithing -- living it has tangible effects in my life.

Still other things I believe to be true because they just "make sense" or because I've done a lot of studying and came to a conclusion that I think is true.

So it is a curious thing, hm, knowing truth, or knowing that a spiritual message being received is actually from your Father in heaven. I have had to think through it a lot more since being around boards like these since it is a common question -- how do you really know?

I think the scriptures do explain. There is always the story of Elijah and the voices of the thunder, etc., and then finally the still, small voice. There are a couple of stories in the Book of Mormon when the quiet voice felt like it nevertheless would put the person asunder.

The still, small voice . . . hmm . . .

In fact I think one way or level to read all scripture is to present to us that God is ALWAYS trying to communicate to us, and the scriptures tutor us in that possibility and miracle and fact, and the various ways it takes place.

[inthearmsofsleep]

Just to add to what xhenli was saying, the Holy Ghost affects us all in different ways. There are some people who have received visual witnesses as opposed to feeling, or even auditory witnesses I imagine (not sure of any instance, but I've heard of the Holy Ghost "shouting" in a sense to stop someone from doing something). The point is, you'll be affected in the way that speaks to your spirit the most... for me I feel an urgency to do something, such as this sudden urgency to bring up a scripture or thought in a gospel discussion, not that this is really a "witness" per se, but just an example of how it affects me. When the Holy Ghost has witnessed to me that what I'm studying is true, sometimes I feel a "full-body goosebumps" kind of thing, or an immense calmness, surety, gratitude and overwhelming joy at whatever I'm reading or hearing. You'll know it when you feel it.

[lilered]

For some of us, it has taken longer to "feel the spirit". Me thinks, that sometimes it is because we are not willing to have the patience, or meditate about "what we are asking" suffiecently to allow us to hear the "Holy Spirit" whisper to us. Pretty hard to do, with a cell-phone or I-POD plugged into ones ear, or the radio/TV turned on, etc.. Many of the promptings will come when we are relaxed, quiet, and thinking or studying about them a lot. Also we can tune in better when we pray and fast.

[MissouriBoiler]

I'll split my response up into 3 parts.

Blacks and the Priesthood. I think most people in generation x & Generation y would agree with you that inequality based on race is rather disgusting. Thought it has we have been taught in the later days, I think it is beautiful that we don't have hesitations toward race. With that said, there are many reasons why people say Blacks didn't have the priesthood. I also remember reading through church history that there were a few exceptions to this rule. I think those that have stated that the world wasn't ready were probably the closest. I don't 2nd guess heavenly father in when he gives us revelation but take it from this perspective; Why didn't Christ restore his church right after the deaths of his disciples and apostles the first time? Why did he let the great apostasy happen? I doubt he would want any of his children to live in darkness. Funny those were called the dark ages. Why did he choose the United States? All because it was a perfect scenario for him to restore the church. Now that is similistic view of things, but it makes sense. He wants to give the true church every chance without removing the worlds free agency. I think personally that it was wise to wait with the Blacks and priesthood. Can you imagine the increased hatred for the church as it grew if the leaders were african americans so shortly after the civil war or during the civil war? Now is that the church or christ playing favorites? No not to me. He was thinking of all his chidren. I think it is wonderful today when the ensign puts in articles of how much the church is grown in Africa and how strong the members are there. I live in the mid-western portions of the United States and in the community where the branch I attend resides, there are very very few african americans. One of the few men is a Elder in our church and preparing to go to the temple with his wife. I love having him with us. He has such a different life perspective.

I'm a convert to the church and I read mornoi as well. I was 14-years-old when I prayed about the truth of the church. When I got that answer it wasn't a burning inside overwhelming that I couldn't deny it though, I have had that kind of answer. I've learned over the years the spirit can speak to us in different methods. I prayed very sincerely. When I recieved my answer,I knew in my heart that God was going to answer me. I sat for a few minutes in complete silence on the side of my bed after the prayer. Not thinking of anything and just trying to be patient. It was kind of amazing the peaceful joy that swept over me, I had never had that answer before. It was so warming and overwhelming a 14-year old boy couldn't keep from tearing up and commiting to be baptized. Glad I did. The spirit has fileld those holes and questions I had even as a teen over the years to the point I can say that this is the Church of our Heavenly Father and his son Christ.

The last section I thought I would mention is that I've ironically actually have had multiple men come to me asking for advice in person about what they should do. They were dating LDS women. I've always told them the same thing. First, your girlfriend not only believes in Heavenly Father but that Marriage is sacred to him and is not to be taken lightly. She knows it takes 3 to make a marriage work. Though all that is important don't let it taint your decision to join the Church and be baptized. Bapitism is a sign of taking covenants with Heavenly Father. That is a 2 way street between you and him. A relationship to be built. I can't tell you the answer is yes to joining the church, because it won't mean anything if things get rough down the road. Only Heavenly father can tell you what you should do. So I'm not going to tell you yes,this is the true church. I'm going to tell you that yes, God is real! He is your father and would love to give you advice if you will come to him and ask. The funny thing that is the last time I spoke to each of those men prior to there baptisms. I've spoken to all of them after and we have never spoken about the conversation either. I think they understood that the Lord was there for them and what better advice giver than he?

Sorry very long but covers 3 topics to me.