'I AM', Intellgience are


Hemidakota
 Share

Recommended Posts

Part taken from on going paper research:

...I want you to stand up in front of a full-length mirror. Now, a moment to ask the ultimate question, “What is intelligence?” Look in that mirror. What are seeing? A normal response would be, “I see a fully cloth me [descriptive height, weight, skin, and so forth].” Great! Another question, “What do you think intelligence is?” One quick response would be, “Me!” Others may respond, “Something wonderful”, “Self-knowing”, “Being”, “Eternal Entity”, or “I don’t know.” Now, a fully vested priesthood bearer may say, “I AM”. What? Using the idiom ‘I AM’? “That is sacrilege”, is the usual response from those who don’t have the spiritual maturity to comprehend the true meaning. Yes! We do know, from the Old Testament to our current Doctrine and Covenants, the idiom has heavy usage to denote the Savior – Jesus the Christ.

As you look into the mirror, it is not actually you, but a well built organic carbon life form of collaborative host with millions of intelligences. Yes, you look through those eyes to see an outer shell called a mortal being. That is not you actually you. You are somewhere layered deep into that recess of the organic material called a brain. In essence, it could be considered that you are their GOD. You command the hand to move. They obey. You command the heart to pump, they obey. You command the leg to move, they obey....

Let me know what you think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 50
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Part taken from on going paper research:

Let me know what you think.

A talk by Cleon Skousen (I have the DVD) in Texas about 2 decades ago -- on the Atonement - talks about intelligences. I have listened to this talk about 20 times.

I am completely 100% on board with these ideas. I believe them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a rough draft of a book I have been working on (based on Skousen's Ideas):

I took out some parts because the posting limit is 10,000 chars.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BY SMALL MEANS

The God we worship is a God of miracles. The miracles that are recorded in scripture demonstrate God's love for His children. They show that He has the power to bless His children, heal His children, provide for their needs and even protect them from utter destruction. Miracles are called such because we cannot explain their origins as being other than divine; beyond the power of mortals.

One such miracle that Jesus performed at the beginning of His ministry was turning water into wine (see John 2:1-11). As "mere mortals" we do not have the ability to perform this transformation. I would like to showcase this miracle; I want to analyze it and see what we can learn from it. I hope to show the reader how this miracle sheds light on the source of God's power and thus explain the means by which our own sanctification is brought about.

In turning water into wine, there are some fundamental challenges we would face. These same challenges did not hinder the Lord at all. Let me list a few points of interest that came to mind as I pondered this miracle:

1) Chemically, water is a much different substance than wine. Water's chemical representation is H2O. Wine's chemical representation is: C6H12O6 — 2CO2 + 2C2H5OH (Sugar Carbon Dioxide Ethyl Alcohol) (1). Even a non-Chemist such as myself can tell that the wine is more complex chemically. Water is missing the needed Carbon atoms present in the wine.

2) Jesus was able to produce what was described as a very good wine in a very short period of time. Normally, a good wine takes several years to ferment properly. But in the description of the miracle record in John, I got the impression that the water changed into wine virtually instantaneously! We know it was a very good quality of wine because the governor of the feast complained that the best wine had been saved for last, instead having been served first as was customary.

3) From the description of the miracle, it seems Jesus invoked the transformation of the water into wine by mental telepathy. He thought the thought and it just happened!

So, to be able to duplicate this miracle, one would have to be able to:

1) Command the elements at a subatomic or particle level.

2) Accelerate the fermentation process (speed up time, or not have it be an issue).

3) Do these things telepathically.

Clearly, any one of these 3 abilities is beyond the power and comprehension of most people. Yet Jesus did it effortlessly. I propose that there does exist a valid scriptural explanation for how Jesus was able to turn water into wine. It has to do with intelligence and element and how they relate to one another.

Now, I did not just pull this concept out of thin air. As I stated in the Introduction there is a talk by a famous LDS author, W. Cleon Skousen, that sets forth this relationship between intelligence and element. Brother Skousen specifically talks about how water being turned into wine is an example of this relationship between intelligence and element.

The scriptures do not talk about intelligence and element with great regularity. You have dig a little bit to find the verses, but they are there. One such passage is D&C 93:29-30.

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

Let's list the concepts that are brought forth from these 2 verses:

1) We have existed for as long as God has. Both God as well as ourselves are classified as intelligences. Intelligences cannot be created or made. The difference between God and ourselves is that God has reached His exaltation, while we are still seeking to obtain it.

2) We are independent entities, free to act for ourselves. Were it not structured this way, the universe would not exist.

To really bring this home for the reader I would like to quote a series of verses from the book of Abraham that describe the creation of this earth.

I am going to emphasize in bold the phrases that demonstrate the concept of agency as it relates to intelligence.

Abr. (4: 10, 12, 21 were cut out by me) 25

25 And the Gods organized the earth to bring forth the beasts after their kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind; and the Gods saw they would obey.

What is being suggested here is that the elements had the ability to obey the commands of God, and by inference, disobey His commands as well!

Now, in and of itself, dirt has no ability to obey. It is just element. It is just dirt. But if you attach intelligence to it, now you can accomplish something. You can talk to that intelligence and it will obey. It drags the element it is attached to along with it.

So if we apply this concept to the miracle of turning water into wine, we arrive at this conclusion:

Water alone = no capacity to obey.

Water + Intelligence = capacity to obey.

An analogy that demonstrates this relationship is the difference between the locomotive and the box cars it pulls along behind it. Without the engine, the box cars cannot move. But once you attach the engine to the cars, they can be moved. So if we extend this analogy to our current hypothesis, the engine would be the intelligences, the box cars would be the elements.

Lehi described this relationship in 2 Nephi 2:13-14:

Things that act. (intelligence)

Things that are acted upon. (element)

God understands this relationship between intelligence and element, and uses this relationship to accomplish His purposes. Lehi explained that without this relationship there could have been "no creation of things" and that "all things must have vanished away".

To summarize, when Jesus turned water into wine, He commanded the intelligences which were attached to the water. He commaned the intelligences to re-arrange the water into a new substance. In this particular case, the new substance Jesus asked for was wine. But the new substance could just as easily have been oil or vinegar or gasoline or lemonade. It was the intelligences which obeyed, "dragging" the particles that formed the water along with them (so to speak).

But why do intelligences obey Jesus? Do they have a choice in the matter?

The answers to these questions also reside in scripture.

In pre-mortal councils, Lucifer asked God for His power in a very unusual way. Let us read the verse that documents Lucifer's request and pay careful attention to what Lucifer asks for:

D&C 29:36:

And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—for, behold, the devil was before Adam, for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my power; and also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me because of their agency;

Lucifer asked for God's honor, meaning, His honor that he has with the intelligences of the universe. The intelligences that are the foundation of our existence. They obey God because they respect and honor Him. They can do this because God obeys eternal law. His obedience has placed Him in a position of honor and respect with these intelligences.

This honor that God has among the intelligences of the universe is why the water was able to be turned into wine. This is why agency plays such a crucial role in the Plan of Salvation. Eternal law dictates that we must chose exaltation or damnation. It cannot be forced upon us.

Eternal law works both ways. We know that not all of creation honors God. A full third of the hosts of heaven decided to follow their own course, to follow the alternate plan outlined by Lucifer. As a necessary and unavoidable consequence of that decision, they were cast out from the presence of God and their progression was damned for all eternity. Again, not because the Father does not love them, but because He must honor our agency! Eventually these disobedient spirits will face total dissolution. They will be cast out into outer darkness and will return to their native element (2). While we are free to choose our course and to act according to our will, we are not free from the consequences of those acts.

This universe is a universe of cause and effect. Those who obey are exalted through the merits of Christ and receive a Kingdom of Glory. Those who disobey are not. They are exposed to the full weight of Justice. It has to function this way. No use trying to change it. We can accept it, reject it, or even try to ignore it, but none of that does away with the reality of it!!

So, God commands the intelligences of the universe. Those intelliegences can attach themselves to elements. Because they are attached to the elements, miracles become possible, such as turning water into wine. We are organized intelligences. It stands to reason that if God can turn water into wine, then He can perform similar miracles with us as well. Understanding that this is true is important to our understanding of the process of our own sanctification. We'll spend a lot more time on this relationship in the next chapter.

FOOTNOTES:

1. http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/DEVITA/chemicals.html

2. D.H. Wells, Jounal of Discourses, 5:42.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bahahahaaaa...same sources - Prophet Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Elder Pratt, and Elder Widstoe.

Thanks.

What do you think of the following:

God teaches us by stories, parables, and so on.

Creation, God creates spirits, both male and female [together]

Upon completion of the earth, God forms man out of the materials but not the woman. Why? Then He tells this man, he is alone. Adam, being child like, did not say anything about being alone or really understood what is this alone. Next, we do know, God could of made the woman seperate as He did in the spiritual creation. Why take a rib, then create a counter part. Now if you morph the man and woman together what happens? Beside of being whole as two are in marriage for eternality - there is a story being told that most will overlook. Speculation? It requires some spiritual pondering and meanful prayers in search for that answer.

Now, something I had learn from a personal friend who was part of the early recruitment for 'Remote Viewing', made some questionable search that disturbed him or perhaps, scarred his spiritual state when he discovered this first being [GOD - the Christ]. It wasn't just a male or female either.

I don't want to digest too much here, some here may read this come away disturbed.

[LOL - get so excitied that spelling and grammar is out of the window]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a rough draft of a book I have been working on (based on Skousen's Ideas):

I took out some parts because the posting limit is 10,000 chars.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BY SMALL MEANS

The God we worship is a God of miracles. The miracles that are recorded in scripture demonstrate God's love for His children. They show that He has the power to bless His children, heal His children, provide for their needs and even protect them from utter destruction. Miracles are called such because we cannot explain their origins as being other than divine; beyond the power of mortals.

One such miracle that Jesus performed at the beginning of His ministry was turning water into wine (see John 2:1-11). As "mere mortals" we do not have the ability to perform this transformation. I would like to showcase this miracle; I want to analyze it and see what we can learn from it. I hope to show the reader how this miracle sheds light on the source of God's power and thus explain the means by which our own sanctification is brought about.

In turning water into wine, there are some fundamental challenges we would face. These same challenges did not hinder the Lord at all. Let me list a few points of interest that came to mind as I pondered this miracle:

1) Chemically, water is a much different substance than wine. Water's chemical representation is H2O. Wine's chemical representation is: C6H12O6 — 2CO2 + 2C2H5OH (Sugar Carbon Dioxide Ethyl Alcohol) (1). Even a non-Chemist such as myself can tell that the wine is more complex chemically. Water is missing the needed Carbon atoms present in the wine.

2) Jesus was able to produce what was described as a very good wine in a very short period of time. Normally, a good wine takes several years to ferment properly. But in the description of the miracle record in John, I got the impression that the water changed into wine virtually instantaneously! We know it was a very good quality of wine because the governor of the feast complained that the best wine had been saved for last, instead having been served first as was customary.

3) From the description of the miracle, it seems Jesus invoked the transformation of the water into wine by mental telepathy. He thought the thought and it just happened!

So, to be able to duplicate this miracle, one would have to be able to:

1) Command the elements at a subatomic or particle level.

2) Accelerate the fermentation process (speed up time, or not have it be an issue).

3) Do these things telepathically.

Clearly, any one of these 3 abilities is beyond the power and comprehension of most people. Yet Jesus did it effortlessly. I propose that there does exist a valid scriptural explanation for how Jesus was able to turn water into wine. It has to do with intelligence and element and how they relate to one another.

Now, I did not just pull this concept out of thin air. As I stated in the Introduction there is a talk by a famous LDS author, W. Cleon Skousen, that sets forth this relationship between intelligence and element. Brother Skousen specifically talks about how water being turned into wine is an example of this relationship between intelligence and element.

The scriptures do not talk about intelligence and element with great regularity. You have dig a little bit to find the verses, but they are there. One such passage is D&C 93:29-30.

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

Let's list the concepts that are brought forth from these 2 verses:

1) We have existed for as long as God has. Both God as well as ourselves are classified as intelligences. Intelligences cannot be created or made. The difference between God and ourselves is that God has reached His exaltation, while we are still seeking to obtain it.

2) We are independent entities, free to act for ourselves. Were it not structured this way, the universe would not exist.

To really bring this home for the reader I would like to quote a series of verses from the book of Abraham that describe the creation of this earth.

I am going to emphasize in bold the phrases that demonstrate the concept of agency as it relates to intelligence.

Abr. (4: 10, 12, 21 were cut out by me) 25

25 And the Gods organized the earth to bring forth the beasts after their kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind; and the Gods saw they would obey.

What is being suggested here is that the elements had the ability to obey the commands of God, and by inference, disobey His commands as well!

Now, in and of itself, dirt has no ability to obey. It is just element. It is just dirt. But if you attach intelligence to it, now you can accomplish something. You can talk to that intelligence and it will obey. It drags the element it is attached to along with it.

So if we apply this concept to the miracle of turning water into wine, we arrive at this conclusion:

Water alone = no capacity to obey.

Water + Intelligence = capacity to obey.

An analogy that demonstrates this relationship is the difference between the locomotive and the box cars it pulls along behind it. Without the engine, the box cars cannot move. But once you attach the engine to the cars, they can be moved. So if we extend this analogy to our current hypothesis, the engine would be the intelligences, the box cars would be the elements.

Lehi described this relationship in 2 Nephi 2:13-14:

Things that act. (intelligence)

Things that are acted upon. (element)

God understands this relationship between intelligence and element, and uses this relationship to accomplish His purposes. Lehi explained that without this relationship there could have been "no creation of things" and that "all things must have vanished away".

To summarize, when Jesus turned water into wine, He commanded the intelligences which were attached to the water. He commaned the intelligences to re-arrange the water into a new substance. In this particular case, the new substance Jesus asked for was wine. But the new substance could just as easily have been oil or vinegar or gasoline or lemonade. It was the intelligences which obeyed, "dragging" the particles that formed the water along with them (so to speak).

But why do intelligences obey Jesus? Do they have a choice in the matter?

The answers to these questions also reside in scripture.

In pre-mortal councils, Lucifer asked God for His power in a very unusual way. Let us read the verse that documents Lucifer's request and pay careful attention to what Lucifer asks for:

D&C 29:36:

And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—for, behold, the devil was before Adam, for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my power; and also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me because of their agency;

Lucifer asked for God's honor, meaning, His honor that he has with the intelligences of the universe. The intelligences that are the foundation of our existence. They obey God because they respect and honor Him. They can do this because God obeys eternal law. His obedience has placed Him in a position of honor and respect with these intelligences.

This honor that God has among the intelligences of the universe is why the water was able to be turned into wine. This is why agency plays such a crucial role in the Plan of Salvation. Eternal law dictates that we must chose exaltation or damnation. It cannot be forced upon us.

Eternal law works both ways. We know that not all of creation honors God. A full third of the hosts of heaven decided to follow their own course, to follow the alternate plan outlined by Lucifer. As a necessary and unavoidable consequence of that decision, they were cast out from the presence of God and their progression was damned for all eternity. Again, not because the Father does not love them, but because He must honor our agency! Eventually these disobedient spirits will face total dissolution. They will be cast out into outer darkness and will return to their native element (2). While we are free to choose our course and to act according to our will, we are not free from the consequences of those acts.

This universe is a universe of cause and effect. Those who obey are exalted through the merits of Christ and receive a Kingdom of Glory. Those who disobey are not. They are exposed to the full weight of Justice. It has to function this way. No use trying to change it. We can accept it, reject it, or even try to ignore it, but none of that does away with the reality of it!!

So, God commands the intelligences of the universe. Those intelliegences can attach themselves to elements. Because they are attached to the elements, miracles become possible, such as turning water into wine. We are organized intelligences. It stands to reason that if God can turn water into wine, then He can perform similar miracles with us as well. Understanding that this is true is important to our understanding of the process of our own sanctification. We'll spend a lot more time on this relationship in the next chapter.

FOOTNOTES:

1. http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/DEVITA/chemicals.html

2. D.H. Wells, Jounal of Discourses, 5:42.

Can you send the whole article?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awesome write-up…Elder Skousen did some 'pain staking' research over many years to tabulate the answer. I don't know if I would just kicked Elder Widtsoe for not telling him up front but I understand his point. Even Heavenly Father at time uses the same tactic. We are overjoyed when we finally connect the last dot in the search for truth.

Connect the Dot game....next we have a divine title called 'Christ'. We do know that there is a mortal Savior named Jesus Christ and all the intelligence do obey that person bearing that title. There is no other name by which we are saved. Who really is this Christ that both our FATHER and HIS son Jehovah, modeled other? More spiritual pondering is required.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I would stand outside of our known universe, where would I be?

In another universe? On the other side of the veil?

Is it human arrogance that assumes there is only one universe?

Maybe there are trillions of universes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In another universe? On the other side of the veil?

Is it human arrogance that assumes there is only one universe?

Maybe there are trillions of universes.

Universe

Good one...let arrange the same question differently:

Do you remember watching a science program that talked about using the tenth power in dealing size, starting with man; going in both directions [biggest to mean univese to the smallest meaning atom]?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Universe

Good one...let arrange the same question differently:

Do you remember watching a science program that talked about using the tenth power in dealing size, starting with man; going in both directions [biggest to mean univese to the smallest meaning atom]?

I don't remember a science program like this, but I think I am acquianted with the concept.

What conclusion do you draw?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for posting this topic, and tomk, thank you for posting that book excerpt. I think I have been looking for something like that, and I think I hadn't realized yet what I was looking for. But it's making me think.

You're welcome.

You have Cleon Skousen to thank. He's the one who came up with the concept (inspired by the Lord, of course).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ponder this...

There are 15 mega galaxies that obit the center of our known universe. 15

Basic parts of a Neuron = 3

Godhead = 3

Apostles = 12

Council of the Brethren = 15 [FP and Ap]

This is an interesting coincidence, but considering the verse below -- I wonder -- can we ascribe anything to coincidence?

Alma 30: 44

44 But Alma said unto him: Thou hast had signs enough; will ye tempt your God? Will ye say, Show unto me a sign, when ye have the testimony of all these thy brethren, and also all the holy prophets? The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.

Notice he said "all things" not "some things" :)

I think what you are describing fits the verse above quite nicely.

It's also interesting that the Lord said this:

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love skousen's talk on the atonement. It is filled with so much truth, it helped me on my initial steps towards the Savior

I have a few issues with some of what C Skousen said.... in subsequent writings he took a few opinions of Brigham and took them as fact even though Joseph told us we would never know the fate of the sons of perdition. (talking about total dissolusion) I have seen talks about that, saying it is not part of the plan. Also, I don't believe that God goes into "outer darkness" to get Light/Intelligence to organize. Outer darkness is a place devoid of intelligence...or it would not be dark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share