Faith and works


Recommended Posts

Freedom is never free.

Instresting conclusion for sure. But did you ever read the passage in acts. What did the jailer say to paul? What must I do to be saved? Did paul come back with a bunch of do's and don'ts?? No. He said Believe in the Lord Jesus christ. and the whole household was saved. Acutally can you find one example where he told anybody do a do or a don't? I can't..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 86
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Instresting conclusion for sure. But did you ever read the passage in acts. What did the jailer say to paul? What must I do to be saved? Did paul come back with a bunch of do's and don'ts?? No. He said Believe in the Lord Jesus christ. and the whole household was saved. Acutally can you find one example where he told anybody do a do or a don't? I can't..

I like CS Lewis' analogy best. Faith and Works are like "two blades of a pair of scissors." Both are needed. They compliment each other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't remember who said on the forum somewhere that prostestants and Lds agree..but this is a perfect example of how come people who have experienced the unconditional grace of christ on the cross say..oh no we do not agree. And once someone understands true freedom in Christ it really becomes clear. I think it was you that said something about what about sin. doesn't that make you unclean again? Great question and I was going to respond to that later today.

okay here it is the scriptrue in Romans chapter 6..you have to read it in context to understand it...This is where Paul talks about sin and living under the law and now we under grace..so what about sin now?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is plain as day.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (Rom. 6:12-15)

It is the same thing Jesus taught:

17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 5:17-20)

The message is clear. Keep the commandments of God, be obedient, be righteous, etc... if you want salvation. The Savior never taught anything else. You see God has done everything for his children to bring them immortality and eternal life, without taking away their agency (free will). He has created this world, and allowed us to enter it. He has provided a way for us to escape death and hell, by the sacrifice and resurrection of his Son, but we must choose to follow him. We must learn to trust him and allow our wills to be swallowed up in the will of the Father, like the Son showed us.

The Bible is full of this doctrine. You have to flat out ignore it's message to come to some other conclusions. Not only does the Bible teach it, the Book of Mormon teaches it:

32 And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me.

33 And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.

34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.

35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost. (3 Nephi 11:32-35)

That's what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about. It's the way to salvation. A road map that we must follow. Not God, nor anyone else is going to work this out for us, but the way has been paved by the Redeemer of mankind, if we will but follow it.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

okay here it is the scriptrue in Romans chapter 6..you have to read it in context to understand it...This is where Paul talks about sin and living under the law and now we under grace..so what about sin now?

I still see the same doctrine I believe woven thru all those words. I can see why you see it the way you do. I just see it differently. I see Paul warning us to be careful not to sin, because living without sin in the safety of the Lord is freedom. But I don't see him saying that we are continually sanctified just because we have been born again. He isn't talking to non-believers. The final verse " For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life thru Jesus Christ our Lord." These wages apply to anyone, at any time in their lives. I see no distinction between believers and non. I see that Paul understands that any man can sin at anytime, and warns us against such choices. Beyond these selected writings, I see Paul continually trying to correct these early saints. Trying to help them understand doctrine and to behavior correctly. I can't count how many references there to are to proper behavior.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just curious travelor where did you get this knowledge and conculsion from? I am in agreement with you in regards to the early church fighting pagenism.but I am curious as to your source and end conclusion on grace being a pagen thought. :)

I am a student of ancient text. As one becomes familiar with the many text available from Homer (the Greek) to Beowulf (England) to the Book of Breathings among the Egyptians, to the epoch of Baal among the Babylonians to name a few; a sub plot that runs through all the epochs is that of one of the major characters has an obsession to “please” a pagan g-d as a means to obtain entry into heaven. Often it was a primary reason that temples were built (and maintained) to a specific deity. Being favored of a deity (being a recipient of their grace) was considered the more sure way to heaven. This is in contrast to I Cor chapter 13 that recommends a “more excellent way through the mastering of divine love.

Perhaps I should highlight the epoch of Baal as a contrast as to why this particular deity was such a scourge to ancient Israel. Then we could ask – are there any parallels in our modern religious community? Remember the question "Why halt you between two opinions?"

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am a student of ancient text. As one becomes familiar with the many text available from Homer (the Greek) to Beowulf (England) to the Book of Breathings among the Egyptians, to the epoch of Baal among the Babylonians to name a few; a sub plot that runs through all the epochs is that of one of the major characters has an obsession to “please” a pagan g-d as a means to obtain entry into heaven. Often it was a primary reason that temples were built (and maintained) to a specific deity. Being favored of a deity (being a recipient of their grace) was considered the more sure way to heaven. This is in contrast to I Cor chapter 13 that recommends a “more excellent way through the mastering of divine love.

Perhaps I should highlight the epoch of Baal as a contrast as to why this particular deity was such a scourge to ancient Israel. Then we could ask – are there any parallels in our modern religious community? Remember the question "Why halt you between two opinions?"

The Traveler

You would love Ray vanderlaan and his video series. He goes into all of that. Talking about baal, and god of pan and apolla and then the earyly church.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh thanks. I think you and I see the concept the same. I am trying to learn about non-lds perspectives. How does one who is "saved" answer the question? If one is "saved", aren't they assured a seat in heaven? If that is so, then what if they sin? I am wondering how those questions are answered outside of mormondom.

All the self proclaimed christians whom i discuss this with simply continue to ignore all Holy scripture and cling to the "have faith" scriptures alone.:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share