The Nature of God

[xanmad33]

I see one more trouble for Trinitarianism. Did Jesus have a spirit body? (Luke 24:39) It does not say Jesus found his spirit form was different from that of other spirits. It is problematic to say they are one in essence if their was a personage of spirit in the Trinity. The creedal idea of God is based on the idea that vast differences existed between creature and creator.

One illustration in my Understanding The Trinity book compared Jesus to a sample of moon rock. In Jesus would be a tiny bit of God like the sample of the moon would be a tiny bit of the moon. But that God is bigger than can fit into Jesus body. So he allows us to sample what God is like.

Here is some clarificationon that Biblically said much better than I ever could...quoted from "The oneness of God":

"John 1 beautifully teaches the concept of God manifest in flesh. In the beginning was the Word (Greek, Logos). The Word was not a separate person or a separate god any more than a man's word is a separate person from him. Rather the Word was the thought, plan, or mind of God. The Word was with God in the beginning and actually was God Himself (John 1:1). The Incarnation existed in the mind of God before the world began. Indeed, in the mind of God the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world (I Peter 1:19-20; Revelation 13:8).

In Greek usage, logos can mean the expression or plan as it exists in the mind of the proclaimer - as a play in the mind of a playwright - or it can mean the thought as uttered or otherwise physically expressed - as a play that is enacted on stage. John 1 says the Logos existed in the mind of God from the beginning of time. When the fulness of time was come, God put that plan in action. He put flesh on that plan in the form of the man Jesus Christ. The Logos is God expressed. As John Miller says, the Logos is "God uttering Himself." [10] In fact, TAB translates the last phrase of John 1:1 as, "The Word was God Himself." Flanders and Cresson say, "The Word was God's means of self disclosure"

Also, I think this is a better answer to a-trains' question: again from "the oneness of God":

"In His divine nature, however, Jesus is a Spirit; for Romans 8:9 speaks of the Spirit of Christ. In His divinity, Jesus was and is omnipresent. For example, in John 3:13 Jesus referred to "the Son of man which is in heaven" even though He was still on earth. His omnipresence explains why He could say in the present tense while on earth, "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20). In other words, while the fulness of God's character was located in the human body of Jesus, the omnipresent Spirit of Jesus could not be so confined. While Jesus walked this earth as a man, His Spirit was still everywhere at the same time.

Jesus is also omniscient; for He could read thoughts (Mark 2:6-12). He knew Nathanael before He met him (John 1:47-50). He knows all things (John 21:17), and all wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Him (Colossians 2:3).

Jesus is omnipotent; He has all power, is the head of all principality and power, and is the Almighty (Matthew 28:18; Colossians 2:10; Revelation 1:8).

Jesus is immutable and unchanging (Hebrews 13:8). He is also eternal and immortal (Hebrews 1:8-12; Revelation 1:8, 18). "

[xanmad33]

This may have already been said, and I know that you already understand this xan, but in my mind it bears reminder for us all.

The LDS understanding of the nature of God does NOT come from the Bible. Joseph Smith reported that he saw and visited with our heavenly Father, and with the Son of God, our Savior, Jesus Christ.

This was confusing to me, thank you for clarifying. I have heard repeatedly that it in fact does so now I understand your understanding of God comes from LDS doctrine and NOT the Bible, thank you for clarifying that.

I believe this report. So, then, when I then go to read the Bible then I see all the verses that both you and Skal have taken a great deal of effort to present, and I see them through the lense of believing what Joseph Smith said happened to him. No Bible (or Book of Mormon for that matter) verse is going to violate -- for me and for most (?) LDS -- that immediate experience had by a prophet of God in these modern days. I am going to read all scripture about the nature of God as needing to go hand in hand with what was seen and heard on that day in the Sacred Grove, and understood in that context.

I am not ashamed of this lense of belief. :) It brings me a great deal of relief that I do NOT have to rely on an ancient text only, albeit definitely a godly one, but that I can have that ancient text and the interpretations of what it must mean be confirmed and enlightened by a more recent experience by a prophet.

Well, xenli, it is certainly your perogative to believe whatever you want

I will submit to you this: God never changes, therefore his word would be as true today as it was when written. If the Bible is true and was "breathed upon" by God -as the derivitive word "inspired" means, as it claims, then I believe it's worth a look at what it actually says vs. what something else says. But alas, this is my personal conviction in my spirit to earnestly seek out the truth in all things.

That experience in the Sacred Grove teaches me that there are two men, one is the Son and one is His Father. It teaches me they look like men, like the bodies of men (rather that we are created in THEIR image). It teaches me that they answer prayer; that they speak to men (prophets); that they love us and that they (as Father and Son) love each other (the Father and the Son love each other! :) ). It teaches me that they are glorious and full of light. It teaches me that they are involved still in the personal and collective matters of men (their children). It teaches me that they know what they want in a church/ organization and are completely capable of organizing what they want in the present as they have in the past. It teaches me that they are One God because they have one work and one power and the Son represents the Father. They have one 'face' as they deal with their children on this earth. The Son does what the Father would do.

Since I do believe that God did visit Joseph Smith in the manner that Joseph said they did, then I know all of these things, and I can now recognize similar experiences of other men (prophets) as recorded in scripture (skal and you both presented them, with differing interpretations); and other descriptions given of the nature of God -- Father and Son -- in scripture become clearer to me as well, at least according to a belief and faith that I hold and have come by not by any means that I would take for granted, but by my own prayer, study and direct personal revelation, and by the experience of living daily life and receiving the fruits of my faith.

I have no interest in convincing you that I am right in my belief, xan. I have no interest in telling you that you are wrong. In fact I actually don't think you are wrong. About all I could say is that you are learning and God is teaching you; the same as I could say that I am learning and God is teaching me. We each will continue on this journey of faith until we understand perfectly, if not in mortality, well then in eternity, and perhaps it will be something more than either of us could have conceived of as we perceive through a glass darkly at the moment. :) I believe that I will be in the presence of my Father in heaven and in the presence of my Redeemer in eternity, and I daresay I will see you there too. :)

The Things of Which I Know

The Stone Cut Out of the Mountain

Xanali, I respect your religious beliefs, I seek to better understand them as I have from the beginning as to why you believe in the Bible but then in some occasions do not. Some say they believe it as much as the BOM? I admit I am still a little bit confused, but I am confident this conversation will help with that.

And I appreciate you taking the time to help me better understand you :)

This particular conversation was started to better understand where you get your basic beliefs about God. Some have claimed they are in the Bible, and I just thought at a minimum that claim deserved a good look

[xanmad33]

Ok the website contains nothing that isn't in Latter Day Saint theology.

Again, this confuses me, some say yes, some say no.

I was warned when I posted an excerpt that I am not allowed to post things contrary to the teachings of the LDS church.

Can someone please better explain that?

However I personally found it cold and devoid of Jesus Christ really - this is why I just looked it and thought yeah I believe that but didn't see the real Jesus in it.

For me Jesus is above all else, saviour, lord, confidante, always there, my brother, my protector, friend, guide the qualities that come to mind first are mercy, love, great listener, sense of humour and fun, excitable at times, wise, strong and beautiful - long before I start thinking about who He has been for eternity its who He is to me now that is more important. To see it laid out like that with cold hard facts rather than love is like looking at his medical or government records or a potted biography of the Queen.

When I think about Jesus/Jehovah in the scriptures and who He is I don't think of those scriptures as much as the stories about Him - I also feel the site downplayed His humanness on Earth in Latter Day Saint theology He was fully God but also fully human. And that makes the New Testament more powerful to know He suffered as we do - it makes my relationship stronger.

In the New Testament when I think of who Jesus is in scripture the following come to mind - working with his Dad as a carpenter (I love that picture of Jesus and Joseph working together), teaching in the Temple at 12, standing upto Satan in the wilderness, His love and respect for small children, calling Zacheuus out of the tree, His baptism and Heavenly Father's parental love and pride, saving the wedding at Cana by turning water into wine, His obvious love and friendship with His apostles, sitting with Mary and Martha, helping the woman about to be stoned, clearing the Temple and his anger at His Father's House being mistreated, His loneliness when the apostles slept in Gethsemane, His fear, but ultimately giving His will entirely to the Father, healing the sick and the soldiers ear, remembering His Mum on the cross and forgiving the soldiers, His glorious resurrection coming quietly to Mary M that scene for me is so powerful. I think of Him returning to Earth with His arms open wide more than anything I want a hug and a blessing I am excited about that.

In the Old Testament when I think of Jehovah - I think of Him with Adam and Eve in the garden, in the Burning Bush, helping Noah build the Ark, Guiding Israel, My favourite is the story of Gideon and the cloth. And Jael and the tent peg - the Talking Donkey (now that shows His Humour)

In the Book of Mormon I love the story of the Brother of Jared, helping but at the same time teaching Him reliance, the same with the Nephites, the way He guided Nephi is amazing, His appearence and sermons to the Nephites.

To me this teaches me far more about Who our Lord and Saviour is than individual scriptures it is His personality and this is how we can recognise Him when He calls.

The scriptures also teach us through stories how to recognise Satan because his personality is described. I was fortunate I was given the Bible story tapes from the Jehovah's Witnesses when I was a child, and whilst I may not believe everything their religion teaches I am very greatful for the way they taught me to study the Bible I listened to the stories everynight going to bed and have come full circle I used to quote scripture a lot as I know my Bible and my Book of Mormon quite well, but then I learned the stories teach us more without contention than picking individual scriptures I find it sad that in discussions the stories that are so amazing and beautiful get lost when just a verse is picked out. The stories are what give us context and teach us not what Jesus is but WHO Jesus is, which really is more important, because we can comprehend WHO He is but really we can't comprehend WHAT. Below I have included some pictures that for me are who Jesus is.

When I think of the Father - I think of the beauty around me, and His love reflected in the world around us, and I think of His parental pride in the Saviour and I want that for me, I want Him to be proud of me too.

When I think of the Holy Ghost I think of John 14:27 and of peace and wisdom because it is through Him the Saviour teaches me and guides me

When I think of the Godhead together the Baptism of Jesus and Joseph Smith's vision are what I see the Baptism is particularly beautiful as in it you see Heavenly Father's parental love, the Saviour's submitting to the Father's will, his friendship with and respect of John the Baptist and setting the example for us and the Peace and guidance of the Holy Ghost. As I grow I realise all stories are a shadow of things to come and love the image of Noah and the dove leading the people out of the water and onto a new life. And this to me is where the Bible evidence for Joseph Smith, the apostasy and church begin to come in when you see the cycles and patterns in the scriptures. The Word of God is Jesus, and the scriptures come from Him - the Bible for me is one source of knowledge of the Word of God

This to me is the nature of God

-Charley

I think maybe you did not notice all the links to different subjects?

Personally I think it is JUST as important to know the nature of Jesus today, and understand who we worship. After all, our very lives depend on that right

Jesus' nature as divine is pertinent to who I worship. Scripture is ALL about him, from the old testament propheseys to the new testament revelation, it is ALL about him, therefore it is in my personal best interest to study everything scripture says about him, because the very fact that it talks the amount it does about WHO Jesus is, in and of itself is a testimony to the importance of that understanding.

[Elgama]

Again, this confuses me, some say yes, some say no.

Like with the Biblical scripture its down to how you interpret the words - the words at face value could be Latter Day Saint the spirit behind them is not

I think maybe you did not notice all the links to different subjects?

Personally I think it is JUST as important to know the nature of Jesus today, and understand who we worship. After all, our very lives depend on that right

I noticed the links but wanted to stay on topic so dealt with the page which in itself to me was not full of Jesus it was just quotes - I didn't feel Him close when I read it - and I didn't feel the Holy Ghost..

My life is His hands and I trust Him - like he did with the Father I am trying to learn that it is very much my Saviours will that counts. I do know what happens to me will be just and done through love thats all I need to know. All of that is the nature of Jesus today - he my God, Saviour, Brother, Guide, Friend etc He is comforting, merciful, just, loving, wise and full of fun. Nothing is better than a prayer at the end of the day you have unburdened everything and you can have a good giggle and feel the Saviour with you.

Jesus' nature as divine is pertinent to who I worship. Scripture is ALL about him, ngfrom the old testament propheseys to the new testament revelation, it is ALL about him, therefore it is in my personal best interest to study everything scripture says about him, because the very fact that it talks the amount it does about WHO Jesus is, in and of itself is a testimony to the importance of that understanding.

Whatever Jesus is we can't change it He is who He is, nor can we understand the mechanics of the godhead you speak to 30 different non LDS Christian and get 30 different explanations and thats how it should be - if you speak to 30 differnt LDS you will get their relationship with the Godhead - I am happy to trust Him and for His Will to be done in my life.

-Charley

[Guest tomk]

xan:

LDS Theology says that God, The Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, are all seperate and distinct beings...one in purpose, yes, but not ONE combined being. The Father and the Son have bodies of flesh and bone.

That is our stance. Where is your confusion?

How many ways can we say the same thing? Obviously you do not agree. Obviously we are not going to convince you otherwise. Obviously you are not going to change our minds.

Just trying to get to the bottom of this.

[Flyonthewall]

This was confusing to me, thank you for clarifying. I have heard repeatedly that it in fact does so now I understand your understanding of God comes from LDS doctrine and NOT the Bible, thank you for clarifying that.

Well, xenli, it is certainly your perogative to believe whatever you want

I will submit to you this: God never changes, therefore his word would be as true today as it was when written. If the Bible is true and was "breathed upon" by God -as the derivitive word "inspired" means, as it claims, then I believe it's worth a look at what it actually says vs. what something else says. But alas, this is my personal conviction in my spirit to earnestly seek out the truth in all things.

Xanali, I respect your religious beliefs, I seek to better understand them as I have from the beginning as to why you believe in the Bible but then in some occasions do not. Some say they believe it as much as the BOM? I admit I am still a little bit confused, but I am confident this conversation will help with that.

What you have said essentially in these last paragraphs is your own personal belief that the man Joseph Smith had all the revelation neccessary and that you trust his words with your eternal soul.

I disagree, but I respectfully do so. And I appreciate you taking the time to help me better understand you :)

This particular conversation was started to better understand where you get your basic beliefs about God. Some have claimed they are in the Bible, and I just thought at a minimum that claim deserved a good look

Xenli has a way with words. I think he did a marvelous job a outlining some of our beliefs. Xanmad33, you have a way with words also. You present your beliefs in a way that is easy to follow, and provide scripture to back up why you believe the way you do.

Many LDS will say that our outlook is Biblical, and it is in the sense that the Bible supports our views when looked at through the lens of our beliefs.

We believe the Bible the same way we believe the BofM. We believe the Bible in everything, we just don't follow, or subscribe to your interpretation of the Bible. We have a living Prophet and additional scripture to clarify concepts from the Bible.

We also believe Joseph Smith, as much as we believe Moses, Elijah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jesus Christ, Peter, James, John, Paul(but not George or Ringo). So, yes, we do entrust our eternal souls to the prophets of old, and the living prophets of today.

In order to better understand out beliefs, you might want to take a step back from yours, and view it from our perspective. If you try and force our beleifs through the lens you look through, they will not make much sense(as you probably already know).

[xanmad33]

xan:

LDS Theology says that God, The Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, are all seperate and distinct beings...one in purpose, yes, but not ONE combined being. The Father and the Son have bodies of flesh and bone.

That is our stance. Where is your confusion?

How many ways can we say the same thing? Obviously you do not agree. Obviously we are not going to convince you otherwise. Obviously you are not going to change our minds.

Just trying to get to the bottom of this.

I am trying to reconcile this belief with the Bible since all LDS people I have spoken with claim they believe in the Bible, and that The Bible supports this.

There have been a lot of thigs said, none of them have been the same.

Since I believe and you believe that Jesus is of central importance, can we not look together at what the scriptures say about him?

I think this is a wonderful conversation, with all parties giving respect and further enlightenment. If you are not enjoying it, remember, you do not have to read it

I'm not trying to change your mind Tom, I'm having a conversation about how your mind came to these ultimate conclusions.

[skalenfehl]

We did establish that in the "big thread", but now were are only seeking to understand each other. Xanman, initially when I said we our beliefs were based on the Bible, I meant it, but I also said our belief isn't based "entirely" on the Bible. I finished reading the rest of your scriptures in the apology page and in the "chapter 4" page. There isn't anything that I disagree with from my understanding of its context.

I did feel the Savior in that page. I illustrated it immediately in my very first post with my comment on Handel. We believe similar things from a different perspective.

[skalenfehl]

Our belief is partly based on the Biblical scriptures that I provided. There are a few more in the New Testament, but not many. It is through the restoration of Christ's church, as we believe was prophesied by Isaiah and others, that we know of the Godhead being three separate personages.

I guess I should have qualified my statements, especially the first line. The Bible as we understand it supports our doctrines, which are based on further revelations than what our prophets of old have revealed. My apology.

[Elgama]

Since I believe and you believe that Jesus is of central importance, can we not look together at what the scriptures say about him?

.

Sure how would you feel about going through His life and looking at it? y I am still a bit wary about posting scripture but this is my favourite about Jesus - well second my favourite I posted on the other thread nothing makes me weep more than 3 Nephi 11:

However for stories this chapter has 3 of my favourite

Luke 19

Do you have a favourite story and picture you can post?

-Charley

[xanmad33]

I guess I should have qualified my statements, especially the first line. The Bible as we understand it supports our doctrines, which are based on further revelations than what our prophets of old have revealed. My apology.

Ok, i understand that part, but then my question becomes, is the Bible the authoratative means to knowing a true prophet?

[skalenfehl]

Ok, i understand that part, but then my question becomes, is the Bible the authoratative means to knowing a true prophet?

No. But one scripture in the Bible will enlighten you.

James 1:5-6 (as Moroni 10:3-5)

It goes back to my earlier posts that the Bible cannot prove that God lives. It cannot baptize us, etc. You can only know for certain from the source of the Bible or the source of truth.

[Guest tomk]

I am trying to reconcile this belief with the Bible since all LDS people I have spoken with claim they believe in the Bible, and that The Bible supports this.

There have been a lot of thigs said, none of them have been the same.

All I can speak to is what I believe, personally. That might be why you get so many different opinions.

I will say that if anyone claiming to be LDS has told you they don't believe in the foundational truth that the Godhead are three seperate beings -- then that person is not acquianted with our actual beliefs. I can say that much is true of the LDS Faith.

Since I believe and you believe that Jesus is of central importance, can we not look together at what the scriptures say about him?

Sure!

I think this is a wonderful conversation, with all parties giving respect and further enlightenment. If you are not enjoying it, remember, you do not have to read it

If at any time I feel to stop reading, I will. Thank you.

I'm not trying to change your mind Tom, I'm having a conversation about how your mind came to these ultimate conclusions.

I guess that is the ONE THING that people don't understand who are investigating our beliefs so thoroughly and candidly as you are.

I don't believe the things I do because I have been convinced logically or in any other way other than GOD HIMSELF has revealed it to me. THAT is the reason I believe the way I do. THAT is how I came to these ultimate conclusions about the Godhead.

[xanmad33]

This quote From Joseph Smith is what i am trying to investigate, show me from the Bible

...."for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345; Journal of Discourses, 6:3)."

He said it can be shown from the Bible, that's all I'm trying to see...

If you feel this was taken grossly out of context please feel free to post the full context and where it changes the meaning of this excerpt...

[skalenfehl]

The first principle of our gospel is Faith. That is where we begin to lay a foundation of knowledge and witness.

Basically he is saying everything in your chapter 4 page. Jesus is Jehovah and always was. He is the Father of us all. In other words he is our creator and he did become flesh as we discussed earlier in this topic. I see no problem there.

[xanmad33]

But Skalen, Joseph smith said in the above quote, that "the first principle of the gospel is to know for a certainty the charachter of God"...

[xanmad33]

All I can speak to is what I believe, personally. That might be why you get so many different opinions.

I will say that if anyone claiming to be LDS has told you they don't believe in the foundational truth that the Godhead are three seperate beings -- then that person is not acquianted with our actual beliefs. I can say that much is true of the LDS Faith.

I did get that impresion from a few posts so I have been trying to understand the real LDS beliefs here...

I guess that is the ONE THING that people don't understand who are investigating our beliefs so thoroughly and candidly as you are.

I don't believe the things I do because I have been convinced logically or in any other way other than GOD HIMSELF has revealed it to me. THAT is the reason I believe the way I do. THAT is how I came to these ultimate conclusions about the Godhead.

My question is, if you do not have a firm foundation of truth as the Bible claims to be, then how do you know that a prophet is nessessary?

How do you know that he speaks the truth?

What is he held accountable to? The Word of God?

Joseph claims to reconcile his beliefs with the Bible, so obviously he saw it as an important thing to do, and he recognized the Bible's authority.

If God himself has revealed this to you, my question is how do you know it is really not what the Bible warns about that false teachings can come from satan disguised as an "angel of light" and further, the teaching in the Bible that we are not to trust our hearts or feelings of truth but rather to test them against the word?

I do not mean to offend you with the question, but respectfully, I must ask.

[xanmad33]

1835 Doctrine & Covenants (D&C) Joseph Smith further said,

2 Let us here observe, that [three things are necessary, in order that any rational and intelligent being may exercise faith in God unto life and salvation.

3 First, The idea that he actually exists.

4 Secondly , A correct idea of his character, perfections and attributes

I agree with these.

We both agree on the first one, the second is of paramount importance, and indeed as Joseph stated our very salvation is dependant on.

[skalenfehl]

But Skalen, Joseph smith said in the above quote, that "the first principle of the gospel is to know for a certainty the charachter of God"...

Indeed. He also said in the articles of faith that the first principle is of our gospel is faith. Faith in God, to know that He lives, to know who He is. I see no problem.

[Elgama]

My question is, if you do not have a firm foundation of truth as the Bible claims to be, then how do you know that a prophet is necessary?

How do you know that he speaks the truth?

What is he held accountable to? The Word of God?

Joseph claims to reconcile his beliefs with the Bible, so obviously he saw it as an important thing to do, and he recognized the Bible's authority.

If God himself has revealed this to you, my question is how do you know it is really not what the Bible warns about that false teachings can come from satan disguised as an "angel of light" and further, the teaching in the Bible that we are not to trust our hearts or feelings of truth but rather to test them against the word?

I do not mean to offend you with the question, but respectfully, I must ask.

Like I have said in my post I know its Jesus because his personality is the same as the Jesus that is in the Bible, this is why stories are imo much more important than verses. In the chapter I gave, the Pharisees accused Jesus of releasing devils by the power of Beelzebub and they were the learned men of their day - the less learned pagan woman who Jesus described as a dog had just heard stories and recognized his power; S/Paul needed to be blinded to have faith despite all his learning.

The Bible gives us a wonderful insight into the personalities of Jesus and Satan when you know your Bible stories recognising them is easy.

As I have said before mine has been a progression of learning and I have come back to the conclusion that individual verses in the bible are unimportant - you need the whole segment or story for it to be in context and even then without the Gift of the Holy Ghost it is just a book you need the Holy Ghost to interpret,

Remember Jesus taught many times through parables.

-Charley

[xanmad33]

yes we both agree he exists, we both have faith in that, but then again so do Muslims.

Thats why Joseph went on to say that our salvation is also dependant on "A correct idea of his character, perfections and attributes"

[skalenfehl]

You know what? I just reread that discourse. I see where you're big question is...regarding the characteristic...

...the same as Jesus Christ himself did

I'll have to dig this one up. You want to know how Joseph Smith knew from the Bible how this is true.

[Guest tomk]

I did get that impresion from a few posts so I have been trying to understand the real LDS beliefs here...

My question is, if you do not have a firm foundation of truth as the Bible claims to be, then how do you know that a prophet is nessessary?

I know a prophet is necessary because Christ says it is necessary.

How do you know that he speaks the truth?

Because of the way I feel when I hear or read his words.

What is he held accountable to? The Word of God?

He is accountable to God. Yes, that would include God's word.

Joseph claims to reconcile his beliefs with the Bible, so obviously he saw it as an important thing to do, and he recognized the Bible's authority.

If God himself has revealed this to you, my question is how do you know it is really not what the Bible warns about that false teachings can come from satan disguised as an "angel of light" and further, the teaching in the Bible that we are not to trust our hearts or feelings of truth but rather to test them against the word?

Because (to my sorrow) I have experienced the consequence of my evil acts. Without exception, I have always been warned against those things by a prophet of God. That is how I distinguish the difference. When I read or listen to the prophets words, I feel peace and unity. When I stray from that, I feel alone and not at peace.

I do not mean to offend you with the question, but respectfully, I must ask.

While I do get exasperated with some of these posts (just ask Digital Shadow) -- that is a personal failing of mine and does not represent how the Lord would respond or behave (to my shame).

The truth is, I can only take offense, you cannot give offense.

So ask away, and please bear with patience my personal failings. :)

[skalenfehl]

His character as can be supported by the Bible: He is a man, glorified and exalted and of flesh and bone. He has a body as we do, only perfect. We are still mortal. He is immortal. Those are the physical characteristics.

[Guest tomk]

yes we both agree he exists, we both have faith in that, but then again so do Muslims.

Thats why Joseph went on to say that our salvation is also dependant on "A correct idea of his character, perfections and attributes"

Only God can reveal to us "a correct idea of his character, perfections, and attributes".

That is what I am saying. God HIMSELF has revealed it to me.

I don't know why He reveals Himself differently to other people. I can't get into their heads and experience the feelings and emotions they are feeling.

All I know is my own experience.

The Book of Mormon "feels good and right" to me. That is a big reason why I feel the LDS Faith is unique and alone in the correctness of its doctrines. The Book of Mormon is the KEY.