Questions for Christians

[AnthonyB]

jonboy,

The reference to US only was to the AOG numbers not to LDS. Churches don't generally break numbers down.

If you want a book that gives you breakdown country by country then "Operation World" does a great job, (it is actually a prayer manually that gives daily prayers for Christian outreach in various parts of the world.) It even lists Mormons in amongst the Christian churches (but under the marginal groups, in the same category as JW's)!

[a-train]

Vanhin,

Although I get the humour...(Mormon was not a Mormon.)

But the inference of my last question was, after the restoration, can anyone outside the Mormon church enter the celestial kingdom?

Absolutely yes. There are many whose foreordained missions on this earth require that their work be done outside the Church, many right here among us. They will be called upon to do that work and will not receive of the ordinances of salvation until they pass through the veil.

-a-train

[prisonchaplain]

Wow, all 52 million members speak in tongues? What is the nature of this speaking in tongues? Is it all just in unknown languages so nobody understands them? What purpose does it serve?

Edit: Where did you get the 52 million number from? Their 2006 report shows 1,763,401 members.

The 52 million is global, not U.S., and should probably be "adherents" rather than members, since our weekly attendance is usually more than double our membership. Also, somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% to 30% of our people have experienced speaking in tongues. The purpose is to signal that one had truly experienced an infilling of the Holy Spirit. It also aids in worship and prayer (I pray groanings that cannot be spoken). Further, we believe that when we pray this way (in the Spirit), our spirit is communicating directly to the Father, rather than through the filter of our still imperfect nature.

Congregationally, when someone speaks in tongues, it is followed by an interpretation--which serves the same purpose as prophecy. So, yes, we do have modern day prophecies. :)

[prisonchaplain]

This kind of thing is the exception rather then the rule and only works if it's kept very inoffensive to anyone's doctrines. If they all agreed they would be one church not hundreds. We have similar events here on Easter. There are still many that believe they're the only right ones. I worked at a Christian homeless shelter with employees of many different Christian groups, they would debate and proclaim each other to be following the doctrines of demons using the bible to 'reproof' each other. The liked to pick on the Roman Catholic girl the most, she was going straight to hell for being a papist, it certainly wasn't a brotherhood of happy Christians all working in tandem.

Well, we don't have one church organization, but we often get along quite well...good practice for eternity, imho.

Are Roman Catholics a cult?

Nah...they just have a few practices and beliefs that are cause for concern. Even the priest I work with sometimes decries the neopaganism he sees in modern Catholic lay-practice.

BTW, we sometimes disagree even with single church organizations. Imagine that? Although, from my time here, I'd say that LDS is not totally immune to that either.

[prisonchaplain]

Is it always in an unknown language? What is the purpose of it?

1. Signals an infilling of the Holy Spirit (builds spiritual confidence)

2. Aids in prayer and worship

3. In a congregational setting, speaking tongues is followed by an interpretations, which serves the same purpose as a prophetic word.

[Vanhin]

Vanhin,

Although I get the humour...(Mormon was not a Mormon.)

But the inference of my last question was, after the restoration, can anyone outside the Mormon church enter the celestial kingdom?

I do understand what you mean, but it helps if instead of saying "the Mormon church" that you said the "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". That puts it into the proper perspective. Saying the Mormon church, doesn't properly represent our claim that our church is the true Church of Jesus Christ for the purposes of this conversation. Think about the answer to the question if it were asked like this:

"After the restoration, can anyone outside the true Church of Jesus Christ enter the Celestial kingdom (by which I take you mean exaltation)?"

The answer is yes, someone in some far away jungle, for instance, who lived their lives without ever hearing the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, and therefore never had the chance to accept baptism by proper authority, but would have, had they had the chance; they will be preached the Gospel in the spirit world after their mortal deaths. There, if they accept the Gospel, and the ordinances of salvation by proxy, they will have the same opportunity for exaltation as members of the Church of Jesus Christ on earth will. God, who is perfect at His job, will judge them both justly and mercifully on that great day of judgement.

Another example, is a small child, who died before the age of accountability. They, according to the scriptures, do not need baptism, and will merit exaltation.

One thing is sure, everyone will have a fair chance to accept the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and to reach their fullest potential, if not in this life then in the spirit world. If they are not exalted, it will be because they chose not to be, by either rejecting the message or by not staying true to their covenants after accepting it.

Regards,

Vanhin

[Hemidakota]

[Hint] Are you really sure that these children before the age of accountability don't need baptism?

[JonboySquarepants]

why would someone refer to 'the mormon church' as 'the true church of jesus christ' if they don't believe that 'the mormon church' is in fact 'the true church of jesus christ'?

-----

and the answer to hemi's question is that the mormon church does believe they need baptism in order to be saved. if they don't receive baptism on earth, they they will either need to be baptized by proxy or be baptized during the millenium. lol, but if i'm speaking out of turn in this answer or just plain wrong, i'm sorry and i'll edit it out. :)

[Vanhin]

why would someone refer to 'the mormon church' as 'the true church of jesus christ' if they don't believe that 'the mormon church' is in fact 'the true church of jesus christ'?

They don't have to refer to it like they believe it is true, but when discussing our claims, it is helpful. We are not saying that "the Mormon church" has the authority to do anything.

We are saying that authority to perform the ordinances of salvation on earth is only found in "the true Church of Jesus Christ". That is our claim.

Further, we claim that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is this true Church. And we never call ourselves the Mormon church. But that's really not what we are discussing. We are discussing our understanding of the doctrines of salvation.

and the answer to hemi's question is that the mormon church does believe they need baptism in order to be saved. if they don't receive baptism on earth, they they will either need to be baptized by proxy or be baptized during the millenium. lol, but if i'm speaking out of turn in this answer or just plain wrong, i'm sorry and i'll edit it out. :)

Except, like I said, in the case of little children who die before the age of accountability. They will never need baptism, and are not baptized for in our temples. Mormon explains this:

10 Behold I say unto you that this thing shall ye teach—repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children.

11 And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the remission of sins.(Moroni 8:10-12)

Regards,

Vanhin

[BenRaines]

PC, I think your beliefs are more inline with LDS beliefs than most Christians. There are few I know that believe that Christ is the creator of all things, as stated in John.

There are few others that believe that God, the Father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Ghost are different entities, as you have stated. I still haven't wrapped my head around how they can be One God but different people.

I think you are more like us than different from us.

Ben Raines

[prisonchaplain]

Ben, you capture my area of interest here, quite well. I believe I have captured the difference between the Godhead taught by your church and the Trinitarian version. It is not the same. On the other hand, I sense that many of the 2 billion Trinitarian Christians in the world do not have a clear grasp of what it means to say "One God in three persons." I'd also hazzard a guess that while most LDS know that they are not Trinitarians (though a few will say--sure we believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost) they may not grasp why it is they are not.

So...my concern...on both sides of this line we have mystery. The majority of our people grasp a portion of God's nature, but do not have a firm hold. A smaller number can understand some of the fine points of teaching (as demonstrated here), and yet still, if we're honest, we too remain amazed, awed, and perplexed.

At this stage in our relationship with God we'd all agree that He is greater than we are, in all ways. That truth ought not make us jealous, but rather reverent.

Perhaps we're not on the same page yet...but it might be that we're in the same posture towards our God.

[BenRaines]

PC, I am touched by our common understanding and look forward to a day where we can sit down and share of that same spirit that touches both of our lives and makes us the men that we are.

Ben Raines