Which Church is Right?

[Mullenite]

Which Church is Right?

There are three major Christian churches which claim to be the Savior's only true church. The issue boils down to one crucial point: Has the Savior's church continued on the earth without interruption from the time it was founded? Or, did the original church fall away and hence need to be restored through a latter-day Prophet?

Three choices: Of the major Christian churches, only three claim to be the one and only true church of Jesus Christ----Roman Catholic Church, Easter Orthodox Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

For several centuries the Catholics and the Orthodox Church were part of one "Universal" church. Due to doctrinal disputes and other conflicts, they eventually split into two separate churches and have remained divided ever since. Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy teach that the Lord's church has remained on the earth since the time He established it, and both claim to be that very same church.

Mormonism, on the other hand, teaches that the Savior's ancient church fell away not long after the death of the apostles and that it was restored 1830 through a latter-day prophet.

Seventeen points of the True Church: Does your Protestant Faith have and use all of these true points.

1. Christ organized the church Eph 4:11

2. Must bear the name of Jesus Christ Eph 5:23

3. Must have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets Eph 2:20

4. Must have the same organization as Christ's Church Eph 4:11-14

5. Must claim divine authority Heb 5:4-10

6. Must not have any PAID Ministry Isa. 45: 13 Peter 5: 2

7. Must Baptize by Immersion Matt 3: 13-1

8. Must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of Hands Acts 8: 17

9. Must practice divine healing Mark 3:14-15

10. Must teach that God and Jesus Christ are separate and distant individuals John 17:11 and John 20:17

11. Must teach that God and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones. Luke 24:36-39 and Acts 19:11

12 Must be called by God Heb. 5:4, Exodus 40: 13-16, Exodus 28:1

13. Must claim revelation from God Amos 3:7

14. Must be a missionary church Matt 28: 19-20

15. Must be a restored church Acts 3:19-20

16. Must practice baptism for the dead 1 Cor. 15: 15-16 and 29

17. By their fruits ye shall know them Matt. 7:20

If you don't find all of this true points in your faith, please consider the LDS Church!

[Shell72]

Where in the Bible does it say that a "true" church must have 17 points? There is no mention in the Bible of a "true Church" and it's requirements. This is a man made todo list IMO and the only truth is in our relationship with Jesus..

Regarding the 17 points

1 - Most protestant faiths has Christ as the head of thier church, as he is to be the head of our lives.

2 - Ephesians 5:23 says nothing about bearing the name of Jesus Christ. It just furthur re-iterates what I said above - That Christ should be the head of the Church.

3 - Eph 2:19 - This is not a commandment - this is a statement of what our family is in Christ "Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. ( THis is one of my favorite passages...)

.......I could go through each one but I hope you are seeing what I am getting at. There is no mention of a "True Church" or a "Valid Church" or any of that.. The only "Must haves for a True Church" are the ones in your post. I see nothing of that in the Bible.

Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.–Matt. 18:20

[prisonchaplain]

Which Church is Right?

Sorry, but this setup was too good to resist. ANSWER: Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site

[Traveler]

One of the things I think is misleading - is this question of which church is right? One thing I have learned in life is that if you ask the wrong question you will always get the wrong answer. There are several problems about this approach – in my mind.

First off may I point out that belonging to the “right” church does not make you any more a Christian than sleeping in a garage will make you a Chevy. Somehow, someway people get the notion that the great solution of life is belonging to the right church. It just ain’t so.

The next great argument is that my church somehow makes me a better person. That is fine. I am happy for you. But just in case anybody ever listens or pays attention and has not figured it out yet – G-d and church and all this religious stuff is not about you and you getting what you need and want. Sorry but it does not matter what you think you think but Jesus Christ is not about you focusing on you. Bottom line is that it does not matter much what field you think you are in, if you are focused on you then you will grow up to be tares and not wheat.

When I was little we often did not get a whole treat – we had to cut it in half. The family rule was the one that does not cut the treat gets the first choice. My older brother was the master cutter and always jumped at the opportunity to cut the treat. He was so cleaver. He would cut the treat so that one piece was a little bigger than the other knowing that the picker will be happy he got the bigger peace and knowing there would be no argument or complaining – or checking. That is because he cut off a little peace that he hid so that no matter what, he got the most.

This is what I think most do with religion. They are so selfish that they make sure they get what they want first. They cut their religion out so that it always fits what ever can be argued as right and so they make it sure into heaven.

If you have to tell people you are in the right religion or that you have a personal relationship with G-d – maybe you ought to wonder why they are so dumb that they could not figure it out on their own. Maybe, just maybe – they are not the really dumb one.

The Traveler

[Shell72]

Traveller - an excellent post.. ( The chevy/garage analogy made me crack up! well done)

I am 100% behind you in the belief that it is not the Church or the 'religion' that brings you closer to God.. All these rules of the "true Church" and the "only way" are of man - and not of God.

"no one comes to the Father except through Me"

That is all we need to remember............

[lilered]

What is the purpose(s) of a church?

Which church(s) today more closely mirrors the church at the time that Christ lived?

[Moksha]

Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.–Matt. 18:20

Ah, you gave one of my favorite scriptures.

[AnthonyB]

Traveler,

Rather then then Chevy example, I had heard the saying as "going to McDonalds doesn't make you a hamburger".

[Canuck Mormon]

Traveler,

Rather then then Chevy example, I had heard the saying as "going McDonalds doesn't make you a hamburger".

No, that makes you sick

Sorry, but this setup was too good to resist. ANSWER: Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!:lol:

But realy it's The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

[prisonchaplain]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!:lol:But realy it's The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Couldn't be--my font was bigger than yours.

MEMO TO LILERED: SEE POST #3. :::smile:::

[prisonchaplain]

Which Church is Right?

My answer is the same as everyone's. "Mine."

There are three major Christian churches which claim to be the Savior's only true church.

Note that all the others suggest that these three are all wrong to say that there is such a thing as one true church organization. Also...at 6 million members, I'd suggest the Jehovah's Witnesses are more than minor.

The issue boils down to one crucial point: Has the Savior's church continued on the earth without interruption from the time it was founded? Or, did the original church fall away and hence need to be restored through a latter-day Prophet?

Three choices: Of the major Christian churches, only three claim to be the one and only true church of Jesus Christ----Roman Catholic Church, Easter Orthodox Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Option 4: There is one universal Christian church made up of true members of the many denominations of Christianity.

For several centuries the Catholics and the Orthodox Church were part of one "Universal" church. Due to doctrinal disputes and other conflicts, they eventually split into two separate churches and have remained divided ever since. Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy teach that the Lord's church has remained on the earth since the time He established it, and both claim to be that very same church.

Could it be that they are both still part of the one universal church, as is my own fellowship?

Mormonism, on the other hand, teaches that the Savior's ancient church fell away not long after the death of the apostles and that it was restored 1830 through a latter-day prophet.

Honest Catholics and Orthodox would probably admit to some stumbling, some tripping, and perhaps an occasional fall. But, I'd join them in contending that they and we never resisted the Holy Spirit so grievously that spiritual authority was withdrawn from us. Of course, if Joseph Smith was right, then I am clearly not.

Seventeen points of the True Church: Does your Protestant Faith have and use all of these true points.

1. Christ organized the church Eph 4:11

2. Must bear the name of Jesus Christ Eph 5:23

3. Must have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets Eph 2:20

4. Must have the same organization as Christ's Church Eph 4:11-14

5. Must claim divine authority Heb 5:4-10

Yes.

6. Must not have any PAID Ministry Isa. 45: 13 Peter 5: 2

Disagree. Isaiah is speaking about a political leader, and Peter is arguing against money-grubbing--not legitimate support for those who labor full-time on behalf of the church. For every crass, flashy, over-paid TV minister you might be envisioning, there are 1000s that are probably making less than half of what they would for similar work in private industry.

7. Must Baptize by Immersion Matt 3: 13-1

8. Must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of Hands Acts 8: 17

9. Must practice divine healing Mark 3:14-15

10. Must teach that God and Jesus Christ are separate and distant individuals John 17:11 and John 20:17

YES.

11. Must teach that God and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones. Luke 24:36-39 and Acts 19:11

Disagree. Luke is about Jesus, and Christians all agree that He has a glorified body. Acts 19 just says that God worked through Paul's hands. No hint of the Father having a body here.

12 Must be called by God Heb. 5:4, Exodus 40: 13-16, Exodus 28:1

13. Must claim revelation from God Amos 3:7

14. Must be a missionary church Matt 28: 19-20

Yes.

15. Must be a restored church Acts 3:19-20

Ironically, yes. Most Protestant churches claim to have restored lost or neglected truths.

16. Must practice baptism for the dead 1 Cor. 15: 15-16 and 29

Disagree. Paul here references a local practice that remains largely unexplained. He only cites it to reinforce his teaching about resurrection. Foot washing probably has more support than this reference. Not to say doing so need be illegitimate...but a requirement of the one true church???

17. By their fruits ye shall know them Matt. 7:20

We'll let others judge us. However, outside my own church, I'd have to give the Salvation Army some of the highest marks on this account.

If you don't find all of this true points in your faith, please consider the LDS Church!

Fair enough. The one reference in post #3 isn't too bad either, imho.

[Dr T]

Good post PC

[Hemidakota]

Which Church is Right?

There are three major Christian churches which claim to be the Savior's only true church. The issue boils down to one crucial point: Has the Savior's church continued on the earth without interruption from the time it was founded? Or, did the original church fall away and hence need to be restored through a latter-day Prophet?

Three choices: Of the major Christian churches, only three claim to be the one and only true church of Jesus Christ----Roman Catholic Church, Easter Orthodox Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

For several centuries the Catholics and the Orthodox Church were part of one "Universal" church. Due to doctrinal disputes and other conflicts, they eventually split into two separate churches and have remained divided ever since. Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy teach that the Lord's church has remained on the earth since the time He established it, and both claim to be that very same church.

Mormonism, on the other hand, teaches that the Savior's ancient church fell away not long after the death of the apostles and that it was restored 1830 through a latter-day prophet.

Seventeen points of the True Church: Does your Protestant Faith have and use all of these true points.

1. Christ organized the church Eph 4:11

2. Must bear the name of Jesus Christ Eph 5:23

3. Must have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets Eph 2:20

4. Must have the same organization as Christ's Church Eph 4:11-14

5. Must claim divine authority Heb 5:4-10

6. Must not have any PAID Ministry Isa. 45: 13 Peter 5: 2

7. Must Baptize by Immersion Matt 3: 13-1

8. Must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of Hands Acts 8: 17

9. Must practice divine healing Mark 3:14-15

10. Must teach that God and Jesus Christ are separate and distant individuals John 17:11 and John 20:17

11. Must teach that God and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones. Luke 24:36-39 and Acts 19:11

12 Must be called by God Heb. 5:4, Exodus 40: 13-16, Exodus 28:1

13. Must claim revelation from God Amos 3:7

14. Must be a missionary church Matt 28: 19-20

15. Must be a restored church Acts 3:19-20

16. Must practice baptism for the dead 1 Cor. 15: 15-16 and 29

17. By their fruits ye shall know them Matt. 7:20

If you don't find all of this true points in your faith, please consider the LDS Church!

The only addition, in searching for that truth, use the Holy Spirit and prayer as a guide as Moroni directed.

[Mullenite]

Yes Personal Revelation, Amen!

[Traveler]

Another thought: In Matt as Christ taught the sermon on the Mt. he talked about those that teach in error – or in other words false teachers, preachers, prophets or what have you. It is interesting that Jesus advised NOT using doctrine or other such things to identify them. And if we are not careful we will misunderstand his words.

First: Jesus compares the false teacher to wolves in sheep clothing. This is most important – I believe he is telling us that we cannot identify them by outward appearances or some special list.

Second: Jesus warns us that the false teachers (wolves) intend to do harm. Attack and tare apart (not sparing the flock). I think it is important to note that they will do harm to the lambs that Jesus loves – and I think this includes many of his “lost” sheep. This too is a most important notion.

Third: Jesus tells us that by their fruits shall we know them. I think this is one of the most misunderstood sayings of Jesus. Many think that these false teachers sin right before everybody’s eyes. I do not think that is what Jesus was talking about. He ends by giving a symbolic example of the fruit by which we identify false teachers intent to do harm as Jesus asks, “Do men gather grapes of thorns or figs if thistles?”

This is the point where casual Christians (foolish virgins) fail to prepare and take careful note. The question Jesus asks is almost stupid. Grapes do not grow on thorn bushes and thistles do not produce figs? What is Jesus talking about? I believe it is two things:

1. Someone that falsely represents someone else. For examples Baptist publishing their version of LDS teachings and likewise LDS publishing Baptist teachings.

2. The second part is the caustic nature of degrading someone else’s teachings.

Not only does LDS fruit not grow on a Baptist vine (and vise versa) but such fruits in their natural settings will not be presented with thorns and thistles.

To me it is very clear – a real Christian will teach the gospel (good news) of Christ – not the bad news of every other religion. It really is that simple.

The Traveler

[THIRDpersonviewer]

Someone mentioned earlier something about what really matters is the relationship with God and not the Church. I believe that to be wrong from experience. The two are inseparably connected.

If you believe in Christ and have a relationship with him. There is always a desire to get closer to Him. The way we do that is by learning his doctrines and doing them. This includes holy ordinances and other true principles. One of these ordinances is baptism. In order to perform ordinances correctly there must be the proper method, the proper authority, and have it sealed by the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost. Otherwise you did not get closer to Jesus Christ, you are where you were before. Because He defined an order, a proper method with proper rights and power to administer his ordinances, that order must be followed to get closer to Christ. That is how we live His doctrines. By doing them His way, properly.

So what Church is right, does matter. Because we only get closer to Christ by following His commandments and ordinances correctly. The "true" Church is the only church that has the authority from God to administer these ordinances.

[prisonchaplain]

It is interesting that Jesus advised NOT using doctrine or other such things to identify them. And if we are not careful we will misunderstand his words.

The fact that Jesus, in a particular passage, does not mention the content of false teachers is no indication that we should not carefully weigh the words of all who teach us. If the content of the teaching is false, do you really believe Jesus would have us shrug it off?

1. Someone that falsely represents someone else. For examples Baptist publishing their version of LDS teachings and likewise LDS publishing Baptist teachings.

I cannot agree that is is wrong for churches to compare their beliefs with those of others. Sure, we should all try to be accurate. However, we view the teachings of others through our own lenses, and our own beliefs. Jesus offered some very critical views of the teachers of the laws, based upon his own values (well...those of his Father).

2. The second part is the caustic nature of degrading someone else’s teachings.

I'll not disagree, other than to say that if someone disagrees with ME, I'm likely to view whatever they say as being degrading or caustic, even if it's not.

To me it is very clear – a real Christian will teach the gospel (good news) of Christ – not the bad news of every other religion. It really is that simple.

The Traveler

I disagree. It is very appropriate, for example, for LDS wards to explain to their members--especially their young members and new converts--why the mainstream Church rejects as heretical the teachings of the Fundamentalist offshoots.

[Traveler]

The fact that Jesus, in a particular passage, does not mention the content of false teachers is no indication that we should not carefully weigh the words of all who teach us. If the content of the teaching is false, do you really believe Jesus would have us shrug it off?

I cannot agree that is is wrong for churches to compare their beliefs with those of others. Sure, we should all try to be accurate. However, we view the teachings of others through our own lenses, and our own beliefs. Jesus offered some very critical views of the teachers of the laws, based upon his own values (well...those of his Father).

I'll not disagree, other than to say that if someone disagrees with ME, I'm likely to view whatever they say as being degrading or caustic, even if it's not.

I disagree. It is very appropriate, for example, for LDS wards to explain to their members--especially their young members and new converts--why the mainstream Church rejects as heretical the teachings of the Fundamentalist offshoots.

I believe it was Paul that wrote that a Christian should not teach any other gospel other than the Good news of Christ and not expect to be cursed. I do not recall that Paul taught the exceptions you suggested.

Jesus taught that his sheep hear his voice. Those that teach of Christ are like a clear light leading to safe harbor. Shining a light on an unsafe harbor creates unnecessary confusion. We really do not need to know where not to go if we do indeed know where to go. Could Jesus had made such a point more clear concerning pretenders?

The Traveler

[skalenfehl]

President Hinckley gave an interesting answer in a past interview concerning our church:

Well, it's either true or false. If it's false, we're engaged in a great fraud. If it's true, it's the most important thing in the world. Now, that's the whole picture. It is either right or wrong, true or false, fraudulent or true. And that's exactly where we stand, with a conviction in our hearts that it is true: that Joseph went into the [sacred] Grove; that he saw the Father and the Son; that he talked with them; that Moroni came; that the Book of Mormon was translated from the plates; that the priesthood was restored by those who held it anciently. That's our claim. That's where we stand, and that's where we fall, if we fall. But we don't. We just stand secure in that faith.--President Gordon B. Hinckley

[Abraham]

In the end there are only three choices absolutely:

1) You're right

2) You're wrong

3) We're both wrong

For sure we all can't be right (in the sense of the fullness).

Abraham

[prisonchaplain]

I believe it was Paul that wrote that a Christian should not teach any other gospel other than the Good news of Christ and not expect to be cursed. I do not recall that Paul taught the exceptions you suggested.

Jesus taught that his sheep hear his voice. Those that teach of Christ are like a clear light leading to safe harbor. Shining a light on an unsafe harbor creates unnecessary confusion. We really do not need to know where not to go if we do indeed know where to go. Could Jesus had made such a point more clear concerning pretenders?

The Traveler

Most of the time you are right. But Jesus did call the Pharisees a generation of vipers. He did warn against those who merely seek signs and wonders. He did speak of the leaven of the Pharisees.

In 2nd Corinthians Paul contends against the "super apostles," and there are several passages warning against "Judaizers."

So, while you are mostly right, it would be wrong to outright condemn those who beg to differ concerning doctrinal teaching, and have the courage to voice their concerns.

[Traveler]

Most of the time you are right. But Jesus did call the Pharisees a generation of vipers. He did warn against those who merely seek signs and wonders. He did speak of the leaven of the Pharisees.

In 2nd Corinthians Paul contends against the "super apostles," and there are several passages warning against "Judaizers."

So, while you are mostly right, it would be wrong to outright condemn those who beg to differ concerning doctrinal teaching, and have the courage to voice their concerns.

Jesus and the Pharisees were of the same religious faith. Jesus, in criticizing the Pharisees, was not teaching against another religion but against those “confessed” believers of his same (true) religion that were not loyal to the commandments they were given. This is a most important distinction. The apostate religion of the time (especially in doctrine) was the religion of the Samaritans. But the teachings of Jesus ignored the Samaritans apostate doctrines and beliefs and praised and accepted their good deeds as an example for all seeking the right path.

For myself – I am not interested in a wrong path, religion, false teachers or false teachings. I do understand that identifying false teachers is important but I think that Jesus is trying to tell us how to identify false teachers within the body of our own religion or faith more than in connections to other religions. I am searching for the right teachings and the right way – which I believe can only be taught by one willing to be an example. How does one identify the light of G-d in others? I have tried the method of eliminating anyone with any sign of darkness and to be frank I do not recommend it. Instead, I have to look for light and make effort to embrace all of that I can. I recommend the looking for light method. If I did not think you lived up to what you believe or if I did not believe that both of us were willing to consider a “more excellent way”, we would not be having this conversation.

I guess we need to understand how to identify false teachers within every religion - but more importantly within our own. I do not believe that we should think that it is the religion that one holds to that makes them a false or true teacher.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Jesus and the Pharisees were of the same religious faith.

Were they? Broadly, yes. Yet, they condemned Jesus as a blasphemer, and Jesus called them what he called them.

Jesus, in criticizing the Pharisees, was not teaching against another religion but against those “confessed” believers of his same (true) religion that were not loyal to the commandments they were given. This is a most important distinction. The apostate religion of the time (especially in doctrine) was the religion of the Samaritans. But the teachings of Jesus ignored the Samaritans apostate doctrines and beliefs and praised and accepted their good deeds as an example for all seeking the right path.

Well, then, Traveler. If we're all Christians...

More seriously, nobody confused Samaritan worship with Judaism. It had become something else. Today, we even have some ministers clammering to be both Christian and Muslim. And, of course, your church does indeed identify with same Christian faith. So, by your own standard, doctrinal disagreement should be on the table for discussion.

Where Jesus (and Paul) avoided criticism and emphasized commonalities was with sinners, pagans--those being missionized.

So, if missionaries come to my house, hoping to CONVERT me...they are trained not to engage in doctrinal debate. However, if we're at LDSnet discussing our beliefs in an arena of spiritual respect...we're at liberty to discuss different perspectives more openly.

For myself – I am not interested in a wrong path, religion, false teachers or false teachings. I do understand that identifying false teachers is important but I think that Jesus is trying to tell us how to identify false teachers within the body of our own religion or faith more than in connections to other religions. I am searching for the right teachings and the right way – which I believe can only be taught by one willing to be an example. How does one identify the light of G-d in others? I have tried the method of eliminating anyone with any sign of darkness and to be frank I do not recommend it. Instead, I have to look for light and make effort to embrace all of that I can. I recommend the looking for light method. If I did not think you lived up to what you believe or if I did not believe that both of us were willing to consider a “more excellent way”, we would not be having this conversation.

The Traveler

The bottom line is that I mostly agree with you. I'd even rather see the glass 10% full than 90% empty. But, I do not condemn respectful discussion of differences in doctrine...included the difficult issue of when a teaching is so wrong that it is spiritually perilous.

[Traveler]

Were they? Broadly, yes. Yet, they condemned Jesus as a blasphemer, and Jesus called them what he called them.

Well, then, Traveler. If we're all Christians...

More seriously, nobody confused Samaritan worship with Judaism. It had become something else. Today, we even have some ministers clammering to be both Christian and Muslim. And, of course, your church does indeed identify with same Christian faith. So, by your own standard, doctrinal disagreement should be on the table for discussion.

Where Jesus (and Paul) avoided criticism and emphasized commonalities was with sinners, pagans--those being missionized.

So, if missionaries come to my house, hoping to CONVERT me...they are trained not to engage in doctrinal debate. However, if we're at LDSnet discussing our beliefs in an arena of spiritual respect...we're at liberty to discuss different perspectives more openly.

The bottom line is that I mostly agree with you. I'd even rather see the glass 10% full than 90% empty. But, I do not condemn respectful discussion of differences in doctrine...included the difficult issue of when a teaching is so wrong that it is spiritually perilous.

Yes the Pharisees and Jesus were of the same religion. They did not have separate places of worship or a separate temple (as did the Jews and Samaritans or most Christian societies today). In many places today, people attend different congregations of the same faith and are more diverse in specific doctrine than the Jews that followed Jesus and the Jews that followed the Pharisees at the time of Jesus.

I still contend that Jesus’ disagreement with the Pharisees was not based on doctrinal differences but in the interpretation of how the doctrines were to be practiced in day to day living.

It is a basic tenet of LDS faith and doctrine to respect and not interfere in practice of other religions and faiths. Even the notion of the Apostasy among the LDS is not specific as to who is doing what wrong – because that is not the point. I am most sorry that I am having the difficulty saying what I should.

Here are a thought: If someone cannot identify the false and true teachers in their own religion how can they identify false and true teachers in the religions of others? If they do not apply the same standard to within as to without how can their method be true and reliable?

We have been stuck in our conversation with identifying false teachers. We have yet to discuss how we identify true disciples teaching truths of Christ. Again, if someone’s main filter is based on religious bias – I think they make a most serious mistake. The method should be applied the same for those of your same faith as well as those of other faiths. If not I am suggesting the method used is flawed. This is the main problem I feel I have talking to those of other faiths if they object to anything I say and hold to anything their minister says. They should apply the same test to discerning truth from their minister that they use to test what I say. And I should do the same to what they offer to me. I believe this is in essence what Jesus was trying to teach – though I believe few understand this.

So my point is that if someone uses a different method for those outside their faith than they use for teachers within their faith – I am making a point that such a method is flawed and anyone using such a method should consider changing to a “more excellent way”. I am also suggesting that those whose message is who and what is wrong; be held in less esteem (considered or respected as valid) than someone whose message is about who and what is right. I think this is what is meant in scripture in telling us that G-d is no respecter of persons.

I hope you understand why I am willing to discuss doctrine with you when there are some LDS with whom I will not discuss doctrine.

The Traveler