Why LDS?


AnthonyB
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I chose LDS because it was easily the stupidest religion i had ever encountered. The amusing part is that it was completely made up, yet millions fell for the hoax of Joseph Smith. What fools?! No one with any sort of intellect would be tricked into believing such nonsense. I thought joining LDS would make people feel so bad for me that they would feel compelled to give me gifts.

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Anthony....the Burning Bosom or called the Burning heart is not the only way God speaks to men. He speaks to us...by visions, voice, dreams, intuitions, Wraths, earthquakes, flood, fires, plagues and diseases. The manner in which God relates to man as an individual, people and nation is totally depended on us.

But the Way of Holiness cannot be treaded upon without hearing God. And Isaiah also said the Unclean [they who do not hear God in their heart because their heart are still hardened] cannot walk on it. Here are his teachings.

Jesus also spoke of this way...and He said to enter by the Strait Gate and walk in the NARROW WAY.

Isaiah 30:21 - And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

The Way of Holiness is a highway that we must travel on.

Isaiah 35:8 - And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

The Unclean cannot hear the voice of the God when they stray from the way of Holiness either to the Right hand [Zealousness] or to the Left hand [Error].

The LDS teach a lot on the Burning Heart.... But it is not the only voice of God.

Hebrews 3:8 - Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

More information on this is added in the NT.

Hebrews 4:7 - Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Revelation is the only thing that allows a man to not stray from the path of perfection by turning to the left hand or to the right hand.

And It is REVELATION that is the rock which builders of Churches have always rejected. This Corner Stone is the very stone upon which the Gates of hell cannot prevail against.

I hope this helps. Because prophecy based on private interpretation is useless.

Peace be unto you

bert10

Thank you for your replies....

I was just pointing out that reading the BoM and deciding it is true doesn't make you an LDS but that the real question is rather if the CoJCoLDS is the true church, it just appeared odd to me in some ways that the truth of the BoM is the main question presented to non-LDS and not the truthfulness of the chruch.

As for CoJCoLDS being the true successor church, that is a matter of faith surely. My Mormon history is not that great but given that neither the prophet's wife, the remaining member of the First Presidency, the central stake president (and even the prophet's mother didn't travel west) and at least 3 of the twelve apostles didn't sign up to your branch then I think the question is not settled beyond dispute. Certainly I would think that the other groupings would consider themselves in someways as being the true successor group.

Revelation is a big issue and probably is the area where I diverge most from the LDS (the base presuppostion that leads to a very different veiw.). I believe that God created man in his image and that God will interact with the totality of us. So whilst I agree with the idea of spiritual "conviction" (or burning in the bosom) and God has at times lead me through that I don't see it as the totality of how God would lead us. I believe in prophetic messages from God and would even see God continuing to inform his church (eg the abolotion of slavery IMHO was a prophetic message from God to mankind.) However God left his written word to testify of the Living Word, and to negate, neglect or minimize that word for me is wrong. If a prophecy or conviction is not in line with the scripture then for me it cannot be from God. If God says He is love, then He cannot be hate. If God says that adultery is wrong it cannot be right.

Is the LDS church in line with what I see in the Bible, to the best of my ability and discernment no. This is not born out of malice or ill will, quite frankly I personally like some of your churches doctrines (eg universalism and continueing marriage are both attractive ideas) but I cannot see it in scripture nor do I have a conviction that you are right.

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The Way of Holiness is a highway that we must travel on.

I really like this post, Bert. Anthony has a good point when he describes how Heavenly Father communicates to His children. However, he negates his own point when he says that everyone receives their own private direction. While that point is very much true, it also demonstrates the necessity for prophets and apostles to receive general direction, through inspired revelation, for the Church as a whole. If everyone is getting their own direction, it opens up the possibility for there to be confusion and uncertainty as to the way by which man must enter into Heaven. Anthony himself agrees with that when he admits that he admires the universality of our church.

Prophets and Apostles receive revelation for the doctrines and ordinances which are standard and essential for all to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

People receive private revelation that is tailored to the individual based on their private, and respective relationship with Heavenly Father.

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Now we go into uncharted waters as far as the majority is concerned.

Each person's path is different because of the uniqueness of the individuals. Institutions in order to functions efficiently must make everyone walk in the same path. However, these institutions are very effective for those who needs to be and to remain in the gospel of Repentance. But when we go in the way of perfection...we are on our own path for perfection and final purification. And the trials and tests are now from Jesus and are TAILORED to each one of us according to our specific weaknesses.

But before a man is given to Jesus by the Father he must first hear and learn from the Father.....Jesus said...

John 6:45 - It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

After we overcome the world what need would we have for prophets when we have our own "URIM"?

Revelation 2:17 - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Moses understood this and one day exasperated stated.....

Numbers 11:29 - And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

That is right if one has the Spirit of God upon them....then they are prophets. In fact no person can have a Testimony of Christ without having it from the Spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

And once one has overcome the world.....it is normally their last day on this earth. For when one receives the promises of Eternal Life in the flesh either one dies as a martyr as many of the early Christians did or one is given a mission like John and the Three Nephites or one is sent to live in Zion in heaven.

I hope this helps.

P/s which prophets do you know that has received the promises of Eternal Life in the flesh? Have any in our church cease to age, become free from afflictions and diseases? Or are they all being dragged into the grave? Did not Jesus say...that he who eats of the heavenly bread need not die?

peace be unto you

bert10

I really like this post, Bert. Anthony has a good point when he describes how Heavenly Father communicates to His children. However, he negates his own point when he says that everyone receives their own private direction. While that point is very much true, it also demonstrates the necessity for prophets and apostles to receive general direction, through inspired revelation, for the Church as a whole. If everyone is getting their own direction, it opens up the possibility for there to be confusion and uncertainty as to the way by which man must enter into Heaven. Anthony himself agrees with that when he admits that he admires the universality of our church.

Prophets and Apostles receive revelation for the doctrines and ordinances which are standard and essential for all to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

People receive private revelation that is tailored to the individual based on their private, and respective relationship with Heavenly Father.

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Our belief is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (no off-shoot) is the restored church with all the power and authority to act in God's name unto salvation and exaltation. In it is found the correct principles and doctrines of the Lord. Off-shoots happen when man disagrees with the core church. Our church is the same core church that Christ, himself, organized while he walked the earth, built upon the foundation of apostles and prophets, Himself being the chief cornerstone.

President Gordon B. Hinckley said of our church:

That is a great quote now is another question in regards to that quote. I read it somewhere..here goes..If grace alone with out works (not a lisence to sin) is true then everybody is else is going to hell for eternal damination..but if Mormonism is true ..someone like me would still go to one of the levels of heaven.

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That is a great quote now is another question in regards to that quote. I read it somewhere..here goes..If grace alone with out works (not a lisence to sin) is true then everybody is else is going to hell for eternal damination..but if Mormonism is true ..someone like me would still go to one of the levels of heaven.

Yeah, we got 3 Heavens dude, don't worry about it. You're totally covered! :D

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Now we go into uncharted waters as far as the majority is concerned.

Dude, right on!!! I really enjoyed everything you just wrote. You took what I was saying in my initial response to your post and completely expounded upon it 10-fold with accuracy and authority. Especially with where this thread has been going, these two posts by you are exactly what the doctor ordered.

Thank you for taking the time to type all that out. You rock!!

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Where in the Bible does it talk about 3 Heavens?

According to our doctrine, there are three degrees of glory in God's kingdom (many mansions). Our doctrine is that these are the Celestial, Terestrial and Telestial, each having the glory of the Sun, Moon and stars. We will obtain the glory respective with the laws of that kingdom that we abide by during our mortal life. If we lived a Celestial law we will resurrect with Celestial bodies. The same for Terrestrial and Telestial.

1 Cor. 15: 40-44

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

According to Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible, verse 40 originally was written to read:

40 Also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial, and bodies telestial; but the glory of the celestial, one; and the terrestrial, another; and the telestial, another.

Further from our doctrine:

D&C 76: 71, 78, 80, 86-87, 91, 97

71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

• • •

78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

• • •

80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

• • •

86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;

87 And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial.

• • •

91 And thus we saw the glory of the terrestrial which excels in all things the glory of the telestial, even in glory, and in power, and in might, and in dominion.

• • •

97 And the glory of the terrestrial is one, even as the glory of the moon is one.

D&C 88: 21, 23, 30

21 And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom.

• • •

23 And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.

• • •

30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.

Per lds.org:

There are three kingdoms of glory: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, and the telestial kingdom. The glory we inherit will depend on the depth of our conversion, expressed by our obedience to the Lord's commandments. It will depend on the manner in which we have "received the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:51; see also D&C 76:74, 79, 101).

Celestial Kingdom

The celestial kingdom is the highest of the three kingdoms of glory. Those in this kingdom will dwell forever in the presence of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. This should be your goal: to inherit celestial glory and to help others receive that great blessing as well. Such a goal is not achieved in one attempt; it is the result of a lifetime of righteousness and constancy of purpose.

The celestial kingdom is the place prepared for those who have "received the testimony of Jesus" and been "made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood" (D&C 76:51, 69). To inherit this gift, we must receive the ordinances of salvation, keep the commandments, and repent of our sins. For a detailed explanation of those who will inherit celestial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants 76:50–70; 76:92–96.

In January 1836 the Prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation that expanded his understanding of the requirements to inherit celestial glory. The heavens were opened to him, and he saw the celestial kingdom. He marveled when he saw his older brother Alvin there, even though Alvin had died before receiving the ordinance of baptism. (See D&C 137:1–6.) Then the voice of the Lord came to the Prophet Joseph:

"All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; "Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

"For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts" (D&C 137:7–9).

Commenting on this revelation, the Prophet Joseph said, "I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven" (D&C 137:10).

From another revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into "the new and everlasting covenant of marriage" and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory. (See D&C 131:1–4.) All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next.

Terrestrial Kingdom

Those who inherit terrestrial glory will "receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun" (D&C 76:77–78). Generally speaking, individuals in the terrestrial kingdom will be honorable people "who were blinded by the craftiness of men" (D&C 76:75). This group will include members of the Church who were "not valiant in the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:79). It will also include those who rejected the opportunity to receive the gospel in mortality but who later received it in the postmortal spirit world (see D&C 76:73–74). To learn more about those who will inherit terrestrial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants D&C 76:71–80, 91, 97.

Telestial Kingdom

Telestial glory will be reserved for individuals who "received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:82). These individuals will receive their glory after being redeemed from spirit prison, which is sometimes called hell (see D&C 76:84, D&C 76:106). A detailed explanation of those who will inherit telestial glory is found in Doctrine and Covenants 76:81–90, 98–106, 109–112.

Perdition

Some people will not be worthy to dwell in any kingdom of glory. They will be called "the sons of perdition" and will have to "abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory" (D&C 76:32; 88:24). This will be the state of "those who know [God's] power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy [God's] power" (D&C 76:31; see also D&C 76:30, 32–49).

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