How easy is it ????

[Hemidakota]

Perhaps that was the 'golden question' to ask now you are not here.

[HizWife625]

I am a Christian who believes in Jesus's death, burial and ressurrection, as well as, the Holy Trinity.

[HizWife625]

Now, Hemi

Can you answer my questions ?

Why do you fear seeing Jesus face to face ?

Why do you feel you deserve to be a god in the next kingdom ?

What happens if you cannot become a god ?

[WillowTheWhisp]

When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure.

This is a false sense of security which Satan loves to lure us into, unfortunately it isn't true. What about the parable of the sower? We are capable of accepting Christ as our Saviour but then afterwards going astray. Simply declaring that we accept him isn't the be all and the end all. If we subsequently stray, break the commandments, we have thrown that gift away. No unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of Heaven. The atonement isn't a licence to sin.

Consider:

Matthew7 21 - 27

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

[HizWife625]

John 3:16

For God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish, BUT have ETERNAL LIFE.

JOhn 17:3

3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

1 John 5:13

13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,[a] and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

1 Timothy 6:12

12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

John 10:28

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand

John 3:15

15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 6:40

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6:47

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[a] has everlasting life.

Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1:2

2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Titus 3:7

7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life

John 17:2

2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him

2 Timothy 2:11-14

11Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,

we will also live with him;

12if we endure,

we will also reign with him.

If we disown him,

he will also disown us;

13if we are faithless,

he will remain faithful,

for he cannot disown himself.

[JustMiss]

This is a false sense of security which Satan loves to lure us into, unfortunately it isn't true. What about the parable of the sower? We are capable of accepting Christ as our Saviour but then afterwards going astray. Simply declaring that we accept him isn't the be all and the end all. If we subsequently stray, break the commandments, we have thrown that gift away. No unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of Heaven. The atonement isn't a licence to sin.

Consider:

Matthew7 21 - 27

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

good post Willow. I enjoy reading your post.

When a person committs to the Lord and asks for forgiveness. God is just faithful to forgive. But as you said, it's not a license to sin and I think most Christians know and understand this. There is a change that takes place when someone is truly saved. There is a conversion that takes place where sinful things that once seemed enjoyable aren't anymore. With all of us there is a growing process that takes place. Some God has to work on harder then others. But we have committed our lives to the Lord. He is in us. There is a surrendering that takes place. A submission that takes place in the heart. I was saved several years ago. And during that time since the Lord has been working on me. He has broken me down and humbled me over and over and built me back up. Each time strengthening me. Everytime I call on the Lord and he protects me , helps me, comforts me. My trust in Him grows and He increases my faith. He is a part of my life everyday all day. I have an intimate relationship with Him. He is in me, and for me. Having that, I know my salvation is secure. I can have confidence in that. I have humbled myself and turned my life over to Him. I know that I don't deserve the grace he gives. My life is no longer my own. The work I do is as a result of Him in my life and it's done to glorify Him. My eternal life has already begun and it will continue with Him and in Him. My life is a life of praise and worship to the one that gave up His own life so that I would have eternal life. When I die, the worship and praise will continue at the feet of His throne.

[MaidservantX]

John 3:16

For God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish, BUT have ETERNAL LIFE.

JOhn 17:3

3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

1 John 5:13

13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,[a] and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

1 Timothy 6:12

12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

John 10:28

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand

John 3:15

15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 6:40

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6:47

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[a] has everlasting life.

Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1:2

2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Titus 3:7

7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life

John 17:2

2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him

2 Timothy 2:11-14

11Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,

we will also live with him;

12if we endure,

we will also reign with him.

If we disown him,

he will also disown us;

13if we are faithless,

he will remain faithful,

for he cannot disown himself.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes each of these scriptures/ teachings exactly.

You keep using the word "earn". The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not teach that we can earn our salvation.

We are taught to obey, or to become obedient. We are taught that we must repent. There is a huge difference, between "earning" and "obedience"/"repentence". By repenting and obeying we become and remain clean through the atonement of Jesus Christ. We must be clean to enter God's kingdom.

Besides all the lovely and true verses you have shown us in the New Testament, the Book of Mormon also testifies, among other things, that "he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God . . . he cometh . . . that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name". Mosiah 3:8-9. Salvation is given freely to whomever will come unto Christ.

Faith requires action. Faith is the only work there is -- we have faith to be obedient and keep God's commandments.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that the only way to come unto God and the only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ and his atonement.

It is Jesus Christ that requires our obedience to him. It is Jesus Christ that said if you love me you will keep my commandments. It is Jesus Christ who was baptized and taught us to follow him into the waters of baptism.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I know that I don't deserve the grace he gives. My life is no longer my own. The work I do is as a result of Him in my life and it's done to glorify Him. My eternal life has already begun and it will continue with Him and in Him. My life is a life of praise and worship to the one that gave up His own life so that I would have eternal life. When I die, the worship and praise will continue at the feet of His throne.

Oh how I absolutely agree with this, especially: 'The work I do is as a result of Him in my life' - that is exactly it. We do what we do as a result of the gift of grace, not in order to earn it.

:)

[bert10]

Hi Hizwife.

""When and how do I get to see Jesus face to face?"

Here is your answer:

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. - Revelation 2:17

-----------------------------------------------------

How do I get to heaven?

You already are in heaven. It is at this time at the bottom. For example.... Paradise is in the third heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

I am thinking you mean how do you get to live with the FATHER? - See the above answer on overcoming the world.

---------------------------------------------------

"What does it take to know Jesus Christ and have Him as my Lord ? "

John 6:45 - It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Peace be unto you

bert10

When and how do I get to see Jesus face to face?

How do I get to heaven?

What does it take to know Jesus Christ and have Him as my Lord ?

[Traveler]

When and how do I get to see Jesus face to face?

How do I get to heaven?

What does it take to know Jesus Christ and have Him as my Lord ?

According to the Traveler -

You will see Jesus face to face when it will no longer make a difference in who you are or how you live.

You get to heaven by learning to enjoy the things of heaven.

It takes a willingness to live the commandments by covenant as a disciple and that is how he becomes your master and L-rd and you his student.

I would point out that the term disciple implies discipline - discipline implies sacrifice and sacrifice implies giving up pride and the vanity of self

The Traveler

[Dr T]

Disciple mean student/follower I think

[Brother Dorsey]

But, you will never receive the Godhood. There was, is and will only be ONE.

Why am I here.... To learn more of the LDS and compare those beliefs and teaches to the scriptures inspired by Jesus.

Why am I here......To hopefully expose you to the truth that Jesus is the only way to the only Kingdom.... That you are His forever once you accept Him. To remind that there is not enough we can do on this earth to earn our way into Heaven ... That once you accepted Jesus Christ that you will see Him face and you will not be rejected.

Hiz....I think it would be better if instead of telling us what we believe (that you have learned elsewhere) to simply ask us if what you have been taught about us is true or not. We can and will be more than pleased to set the record straight for you....so you can really know the truth of what we believe instead of relying on 150 year old anti-Mormon untruths. Okay?

I'll start:

You say: "To hopefully expose you to the truth that Jesus is the only way to the only Kingdom."

We say: We already know the Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

You say: "That you are His forever once you accept Him."

We say: Again...we know this, but we also know that in order to keep this salvation gift He has given us we must be worthy of it.

You say: "To remind that there is not enough we can do on this earth to earn our way into Heaven."

We say: This is true...we all fall short of perfection that's why we NEED Christ's atonement to make up the difference in our shortcomings!

You say: "That once you accepted Jesus Christ that you will see Him face and you will not be rejected."

We say: Yes, a member of the Lord's church has the opportunity to see Christ face to face....if the Lord wishes it...after all He is God. And logically speaking, if He wished it then why would He reject you? We feel the only time the Lord would ever reject someone is if they did not know Him come judgment day when "the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Rev.20:12)

Well, according to this scripture I think works are important to your salvation...don't you think?

God bless ya!

[HizWife625]

Bert10.............

I must argue this 3rd Heaven you have mentioned. In 2 Cor. 12:2, some interpret this as indicating that there are three different levels of heaven divided into a level for "super-committed Christians" or Christians who have obtained a high level of spirituality, a level for "ordinary" Christians, and a level for Christians who did not serve God faithfully. This view has no basis in Scripture.

Scripture does speak of different rewards in heaven, however. Jesus said regarding rewards, "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done" (Revelation 22:12). Jesus said He is coming suddenly, and when He comes He will have with Him rewards to give to men on the basis of what they have done. Now this shows us that there is going to be a time of reward for believers. In 2 Timothy 4, we read the words of Paul as he closes out his ministry: "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge shall give me at that day, and not to me only but unto them also that love His appearing."

When Jesus comes for His church it will be immediately followed by a time of rewards. We leave this world, we meet Jesus Christ in the air, we go to the Father's house and there is a time of reward

Rewards will be distributed at the “judgment seat of Christ,” a place where believers’ lives will be evaluated for the purpose of rewards only. “Judgment” of believers never refers to punishment for sin. Jesus Christ was punished for our sin when He died on the cross, and God said about us, “I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more" (Hebrews 8:12).

What a glorious thought! The Christian need never fear punishment, but can look forward to crowns of reward that we can cast at the feet of our Savior.

To Traveler: There is only one way to get into Heaven and that is through the acceptanceof Jesus Christ. He said " I am the way, the truth and the Light, no one gets to the Father but through Me"..... We are not in Heaven and cannot even comprehend what it will be like until that day....

Brother Dorsey: I beg to differ with you on the issue of being "worthy" of His presence.... that statement in itself brings conditions upon salvation. We are not worthy of what He gave freely, which is why The Innocent was given freely for the guilty, you and me.....We will all be sinners upon this earth and we will fall... Yes, by all means we are to walk in righteousness bring glory and honro to our Lord Jesus Christ, but there will be times that we sin.... Again, this is why the Innocent was given for the guilty.....

What does the following passage mean to you ?

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39).

The same God who saved you is the same God who will keep you. Once we are saved we are always saved. Our salvation is most definitely eternally secure.

2 Timothy 2:11-13 states this

11Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,

we will also live with him;

12if we endure,

we will also reign with him.

If we disown him,

he will also disown us;

13if we are faithless,

he will remain faithful,

for he cannot disown himself.

I believe it was Paul writing this as he was sitting in prison. He was talking to the public and thsoe in prison with him.....

If we die to ourself, we will live with Christ.....

If we endure our trials and tribulations due to our faith in Christ, we will live with Him

If we disown him ( meaning we do not accept Christ while on earth), He will say " I know you not"

If we are faithless ( losing our faith due to trials and trinbutlations), He will remain faithful and pursue His own ( those who have accepted Him )

He cannot disown or say I knwo you not, when you have accepted Him as savior, because He cannot disown Himself.....Meaning He is in us.... If he disowns us, He disowns Himslf, which He cannot do..... That would be contradictory to His word..... And His word is true.

If anyone places conditions upon grace and mercy, it defies why and how Christ died. If anyone tells you that if you fall in this worldm that you may not gain entrance into Heaven, they are going against God's inerrant word and teaching you about fear....Fear comes from Satan, not Jesus Christ..... He said we are to be eternally secure....Secure !!!

If anyone says you have to do certain things and follow certain people or things, they are wrong..... Please don't get me wrong. After accepting Christ, we are to prodcue good friut and renew our minds daily...... But while on this earth, we have not be prefected yet; thus we will fall....... And if someone tells you if you fall or sin, that you lose your salvation or have a mark against your ability to get into Heaven, they are going againts God's word, which is not biblical...... Remember, the thief on the cross.

The theif hung there for all the MANY MANY sins he did while walking the earth....He had not time to live righteously and repent accept at nearly his last breathe.... He asked Jesus to remember him...... What was Jesus' response? He responded that through his faith, (not his works) that the thief would be with Him in heaven....... The thief's salvation was not based upon what he did on this earth, but it was based upon his faith along in Christ.

That is the perfect example of grace and mercy...... And, all of our sins were forgiven at the corss....Past, present and future....All.......

Love to you all....

[Hemidakota]

I am a Christian who believes in Jesus's death, burial and ressurrection, as well as, the Holy Trinity.

So am I.

Do you belong to any church?

[Hemidakota]

According to the Traveler -

You will see Jesus face to face when it will no longer make a difference in who you are or how you live.

You get to heaven by learning to enjoy the things of heaven.

It takes a willingness to live the commandments by covenant as a disciple and that is how he becomes your master and L-rd and you his student.

I would point out that the term disciple implies discipline - discipline implies sacrifice and sacrifice implies giving up pride and the vanity of self

The Traveler

Actually, if you seen the Savior, it will occur more than once and you in the end receive the FATHER. Next to that, others will come annually or over-time to instruct you on what is needed for your salvation. I can say, these are they are the Nobles Ones spoken of by Abraham that will serve with the Savior hereafter. They will transform their lives to conform to the FATHER's 'will' and shun any sin [quick to repent]. So, they will have a change of life style and way of living. They will also know the Holy Ghost personally. For which, is a rare thing in describing in detail of His corporeal spiritual form.

The servant is still the servant until he is glorified by the FATHER and the Son.

[Hemidakota]

Bert10.............

I must argue this 3rd Heaven you have mentioned. In 2 Cor. 12:2, some interpret this as indicating that there are three different levels of heaven divided into a level for "super-committed Christians" or Christians who have obtained a high level of spirituality, a level for "ordinary" Christians, and a level for Christians who did not serve God faithfully. This view has no basis in Scripture.

:

What are your thoughts regarding Paul assessment of the three glories [The Sun, The Moon, and the Stars] described in 2nd Corinthians?

[HizWife625]

Hemi:

Yes, I belong to a church.... I belong to the body of Christ first, but yes I worship in a physical church as well.

Wlll get back with you in a bit on 2 Cor...... Working today, so pressed for time....

[Hemidakota]

Which church [name]?

[lostnfound]

I think what he is trying to say because I completely agree with this person.

The "True Church" is not confined to walls. She belongs to a community of believers that cover the globe. It sounds as though she has put her faith in Jesus christ alone to save her from her sins and therefore even though I do not know her we both belong to the same church.

I go a an actual church too. And someone I don't remember who asked me once what denomination? I told them I will not be defined by an denomination because if I tell you I go to a baptist church I have been in great baptist churches speaking truth and lousy baptist churches not preaching the gospel but some other.

[Hemidakota]

Thanks. It is very helpful for me to understand the presented thoughts.

[HizWife625]

Hemi......quick note......It does not mention the 3 glories.......... That would be taking the verses out of context......

One could say Paul was referencing Enoch and one person could say Paul was speaking of himself.... He was also speaking of the Jewish belief of multi-leveled heavens.

Paul was saying that God took him to the "celestial" heavens, as in the realm in which God dwells.

In many ancient cultures, people used the term "heaven" to describe three different "realms" – the sky, outer space, and then a spiritual heaven. Kinda like what we teach our kids in school on the atmosphere/solar systems, etc ( play on words if you may ).

I.E..... heavens vs Heaven..............gods vs God !!!!

My take is that Paul was saved, taken into the wilderness and instructed or “theologically trained” by God. He never really addresses his “education” by The Lord other than in this passage. I would assume that he is speaking of a revelation by God that was part of his training either at salvation or in the desert. The third heaven description was used by the Jews to describe that which is outside the earth and it’s atmosphere. So he was “taken” to a special place that is not of this world.

This would be similar in nature to John’s revelation. It is interesting that the focus is on the “place” of the revelation rather than it’s content. Since Paul was given the revelation and has recorded what he learned in his letters to the church the revelation does not need to be repeated. The same is true of John’s revelation.

When Jesus comes for His church (the believer) it will be immediately followed by a time of rewards. We leave this world, we meet Jesus Christ in the air, we go to the Father's house and there is a time of reward (not rejection).

Only those works that survive God’s refining fire have eternal value and will be worthy of reward. Those valuable works are referred to as “gold, silver and precious stones” (1 Corinthians 3:12) and are those things that are built upon the foundation of faith in Christ. Those works that will not be rewarded are called “wood, hay, and stubble” in the same passage and denote not evil deeds, but shallow activities with no eternal value.

People may say they know of Jesus, but they fail to make Him Lord of thier life....That was the case of the virgins who did not fill their lamps quickly enough and knocked on the doors. Jesus replied, I know you not...... Meaning they had not personal relationship with Him....They knew of Him, but they never surrendered to him. After all, would filling a lamp with oil gain them entrance into His kingdom? Absolutely not.... Jesus was setting the parallel that one must have a personal relationship surrendered to Him, in order to gain entraince into His kingdon.

When we sin/fall short of honoring Him, the relationship is weakened. Upon repentance, teh relationship is restored. Notice, the relationship will never be disowned. As a follower of Christ, it is our desire to bring honor and glory to God with everything we do...BUT, Christ knew we would fall short of that while here on earth, thus the cross. Upon acceptance of Him as our Lord, we are justified. While walking this earth, we are in the process of being sanctified. However, until the day Jesus returns to call His people home, we will not be prefected..... When we enter His gates will be the time we are glorified.

Rewards will be distributed at the “judgment seat of Christ,” a place where believers’ lives will be evaluated for the purpose of rewards only. “Judgment” of believers never refers to punishment for sin. Jesus Christ was punished for our sin when He died on the cross, and God said about us, “I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more" (Hebrews 8:12). What a glorious thought! The Christian need never fear punishment, but can look forward to crowns of reward that we can cast at the feet of our Savior.

In His love,

Me

[tiancum]

To answer the original question....

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

This is a promise that can happen in the flesh, it is something that every Saint should be striving for.

[Hemidakota]

Both Joseph Smith and Sidon Rigdon were caught to up and saw the same vision that the Apostle Paul saw when he explained to the Corinthian Saints [Church of Corin], that after the resurrection, there are three degrees of glory. Joseph Smith expanded upon what he saw in our LDS Doctrine and Covenants section 76. I am sure that former prophets since Enoch to our time seen the same.

The Book of Enoch, once canonized prior to the final meetings in 367AD, reveals a much greater degrees of glory to seven. Due to lack of understanding by these groups of clergies. it was removed. So much wealth of information lays in that book.

I for one do not want a murder in the same glory as those who live the life of Paul. Would you? Nor want a individual that believe in GOD but did not live its principles with those of Peter's caliber or the Saviors. Nor I could imagine anyone that lives a life less than the Savior want to face Him for eternality. Could you?

Not only, in the Book of Genesis, the term GOD read GODS. It reads plurality and not singular. Now, I don't recall the early Roman pagans or apostate clergy, having the authority in changing a word based on their own lack of understanding the scriptures. This is reason for living called by GOD - prophets.

Do you really believe that GOD will be there to judge you personally? Would you want to face HIM, knowing you thwart the salvation of others by deceit? Perhaps not. It would be better to accept the most filled glory - Telestial Glory.

[WillowTheWhisp]

He was also speaking of the Jewish belief of multi-leveled heavens.

And where do you suppose they got that belief from?

[Hemidakota]

Enoch did minister unto Paul and Jude. Even Joseph was ministered by Enoch. Now, Enoch never touch death but an immortal minstering angel unto the heirs of salvation.