**Dating a Non-Members**Ck in Herre!

[Guest SavingQueenDren]

all i have to say is YAY for dating wahhahahahaha

[DigitalShadow]

When you are young, few people have a choice what religion they are. I know many people who were taught to obey their religion from birth and were severely punished for going against it. Judging people based on something they had no choice in is generally considered bad.

With that said, I think that religious differences can certainly be difficult (but not impossible) to overcome in a relationship and should be taken into consideration, but a complete ban on dating people of other (or no) faiths is silly.

[StuddlyMormon]

I think it all depends on where your heart is and where it directs you. I have found many "non-members" to be more inviting then "members". Just because they dont go to our church doesnt mean they dont pray to the same God or have no values. What an oppertunity this givs to be an example of the gosple principles we are asked to live by. After you have dated for a while then it is up to you to find (prayerfully I might add) whethere or not you should continue onto a serious relationship. Being guided by the Holly Ghost will prevent you from putting yourself into spiritual harm.

[pam]

I think it all depends on where your heart is and where it directs you. I have found many "non-members" to be more inviting then "members". Just because they dont go to our church doesnt mean they dont pray to the same God or have no values. What an oppertunity this givs to be an example of the gosple principles we are asked to live by. After you have dated for a while then it is up to you to find (prayerfully I might add) whethere or not you should continue onto a serious relationship. Being guided by the Holly Ghost will prevent you from putting yourself into spiritual harm.

Very very well put.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

all i have to say is YAY for dating wahhahahahaha

GREAT! So what are you doing next Friday night?

[prisonchaplain]

BTW, a related opinion "missionary dating" (dating nonbelievers with hopes of winning them to God/the Church) is extremely dangerous, and generally not pleasing to God, in my always humble opinion.

[Jenamarie]

BTW, a related opinion "missionary dating" (dating nonbelievers with hopes of winning them to God/the Church) is extremely dangerous, and generally not pleasing to God, in my always humble opinion.

I agree. And also, IMO, the same goes for "Missionary friendships" as well. I know I would be extremely peeved if I found out I was someone's "project", and that converting me played a large part in why they decided to build a relationship with me.

[VisionOfLehi]

As LDS single members, I think it doesn't matter who we date, as long as we keep one thing in mind:

The Temple.

That's where we should be trying to steer our life towards. You can date non-members, but it shouldn't take too long to discern whether or not they'll end up joining and being worthy to enter the temple.

And, they might, at some point... But that doesn't make it your job to wait for them to do it. You can stop dating and find someone else who's a "better" prospect.

You just can't ever forget about the temple, and you can't put the New and Everlasting Covenant on hold because someone "might" join.

[Runesong]

Right now I'm engaged to a nonmember. Our plan is to wed six months from now. He is a good person, kind, with a generous nature and charitable heart.

I've never been so torn in my life.

I love my fiance, and desire strongly to remain true to that. I care about him like he's already a part of myself, and I don't want to hurt him or betray him.

For most of my life up until now, I've been lonely and isolated. I have a difficult time making real friends with other women in general, and have received no interest from worthy, worthwhile, LDS men. I live right in the middle of Utah Valley, so you might think I wouldn't have problems because of sheer numbers, but in many ways I feel like the numbers have worked against me. In my experience, the LDS young men of Utah Valley, in striving for ideals, tend to confuse spiritual ideals with social and aesthetic ones. Those I've met in the student wards and apartments seem to pursue barely-out-of-high-school, slender, blonde Mollys who they can count on to put their lives and plans on hold in order to marry. Either that or foreign girls. This is not universal, but I do know that in the last student apartment complex I lived in, I was asked out a grand total of ONCE, and that one time was by a guy who had already gone through not only every one of my five roommates, but most of the rest of the complex as well, before even considering me as a prospect. With my nerd-girl habits, Kung Fu classes, and opinions that were outside of most of the accepted mainstreams, nobody was picking me over the other available options. Prior to that, my only pursuers were of the variety who would take anyone who had a pulse and a recommend, and thought I'd work since I'd give them the time of day. Even they were few and far between. I know other women like me who have settled, if settled is the right word in this case, for an inactive member, and others who fit the aesthetic ideal who married in the temple and were treated as horribly as a wife can be treated, with marriages ending in a quick divorce. I don't mean to excuse myself, but perhaps these experiences might lend some sympathy for the fact that I've drifted a bit and become inactive since.

My now-fiance is a man of good morals, who I can and do trust with every part of myself. He has picked me up out of an 8-year period of depression, loneliness, and isolation. He loves me for who I am, as a person, and treats me with respect and admiration. He supports me in my faith, and goes to church with me. He loves and knows how to interact with children. He is generous to and accepting of everyone. In many, many ways, he is the most Christlike man I have ever known.

But he is not LDS, and does not desire to become LDS. I'm not foolish enough to pin eternal hope on a decision he may never make.

I just don't know how to wait anymore.

I ache. Now that I finally have hope again for love and family, those eternally important things loom large in my heart and mind. I do love him. And I don't want our marriage to be just for now. The church and my own family are coming back into my life more strongly now. I want so much for him to be a part of both.

I have prayed, and do pray for guidance, but I'm afraid that my long hurt and strong feelings are providing a static interference that I can't penetrate. My prayer is confused.

My parents know, and have given their sympathy and counsel. I'm reluctant to talk to a bishop, because what will he say, what can he say, except to belabor again and again the importance of a temple marriage?

Part of me is almost willing to accept that this experience is just a stepping-stone meant to heal a hurt heart, and that I should break off the engagement and pursue higher things, but another part of me cringes at the thought, and thinks how unfair that is to the man who loves me! How could I just use him like that and then move on? Is that what is expected of me?

What do I do?

Edited June 11, 2008 by Runesong

[Fiannan]

Runesong, I do know a guy who is super active LDS who married a super active member of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. They talked about every detail of marriage before they actually married -- children, church responsibilities, holidays, social events, you name it. They had four children and he took them to church one week and she would take them to church the next.

Yhey worked it out well. I think most or all of the kids got baptized and are active in the LDS faith but I cannot say this happens all that often. I did know of one couple (him LDS and her Jewish) and while she never joined the Church she was called to something like primary president or the like in their ward (actually most ward positions besides bishop can be filled with worthy non-members).

Is this the case all the time? No. Howeverm you knw the dynamics of your relationship. What is his religion? Is it something close to our's or is it incompatible in family matters (like Islam)? That will make a difference.

No matter what it will be complicated. That doesn't mean it can't work.

[KayaLove00]

It really is a personal choice you have to make. Don't stress sooooo much about it. Pray about it and listen to your heart and fast about it. Be honest with yourself. If it feels right-do it! He may not be interested now but ya never know and it just might be worth it to marry him! Good luck hon and I hope things turn out great for you!!

[Runesong]

He believes in God, but other than that doesn't ascribe to any particular faith. He's told me frequently that he respects the LDS church more than any other Christian church and more than many other religions. We have talked about faith and family, and each time we talk, I do feel better. My parents' worries worry me, though, for a lot of reasons. My mom is terrified that she's going to lose me eternally somehow.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Geeky girl has ambition for herself and likes kung fu? Where have you been all my life!

Back to seriousness.... You say you don't want to use him just to lift you out of depression so you can move on to better things - but what are you already using him for? To quote a song I love "I don't wanna lose you, but I don't wanna use you - just to have somebody by my side." If you sacrifice your eternal happiness to marry him, aren't you just using him to keep from feeling alone?

I'm not trying to say you don't love him or that he's not a good man or that marrying him isn't the right choice, I'm just trying to offer some food for thought. Talk to him about how you feel, about your love for him and your desire to have that love last forever. Ask him if he feels the same way (about forever). Then pray about it TOGETHER, and seperately, and be honest about the answers you receive. If he's the right choice, God will help things work out, just so long as both of you are willing to make it work too.

[KayaLove00]

It sounds like your parents have always looked forward to and expected that you date and marry in the church and now this is going on they are uncomfortable with it because it's not what they expected. Yes the church encourages marrying within the church, but it's also not a sin to marry a non-member. On the flip side, what if you married a member and it ends up being a terrible marriage and you could have been happier with the non-member (minus all the temple blessings)? Tis true he cannot take you to the temple now but never say never. My husband was not a member when we dated but he eventually opened himself up to the gospel and we were sealed in the temple. Do your parents like him by the way? Could he potentially cause you to lose your testimony someday if you were to marry him? Everyone on here is giving really good advice and it just comes down to- prayer and fasting.

[Runesong]

My parents do like him. They are just worried because of the non-LDS part. He an I have talked about religion and faith a great deal, and I've asked him about his and just listened, did not argue, which I think he really appreciated. I have my own turns and chances to simply tell him about mine, and he has said more than once after such talks that he thinks I am wise in my beliefs.

[ruthiechan]

Right now I'm engaged to a nonmember. Our plan is to wed six months from now. He is a good person, kind, with a generous nature and charitable heart.

I've never been so torn in my life.

I love my fiance, and desire strongly to remain true to that. I care about him like he's already a part of myself, and I don't want to hurt him or betray him.

For most of my life up until now, I've been lonely and isolated. I have a difficult time making real friends with other women in general, and have received no interest from worthy, worthwhile, LDS men. I live right in the middle of Utah Valley, so you might think I wouldn't have problems because of sheer numbers, but in many ways I feel like the numbers have worked against me. In my experience, the LDS young men of Utah Valley, in striving for ideals, tend to confuse spiritual ideals with social and aesthetic ones. Those I've met in the student wards and apartments seem to pursue barely-out-of-high-school, slender, blonde Mollys who they can count on to put their lives and plans on hold in order to marry. Either that or foreign girls. This is not universal, but I do know that in the last student apartment complex I lived in, I was asked out a grand total of ONCE, and that one time was by a guy who had already gone through not only every one of my five roommates, but most of the rest of the complex as well, before even considering me as a prospect. With my nerd-girl habits, Kung Fu classes, and opinions that were outside of most of the accepted mainstreams, nobody was picking me over the other available options. Prior to that, my only pursuers were of the variety who would take anyone who had a pulse and a recommend, and thought I'd work since I'd give them the time of day. Even they were few and far between. I know other women like me who have settled, if settled is the right word in this case, for an inactive member, and others who fit the aesthetic ideal who married in the temple and were treated as horribly as a wife can be treated, with marriages ending in a quick divorce. I don't mean to excuse myself, but perhaps these experiences might lend some sympathy for the fact that I've drifted a bit and become inactive since.

My now-fiance is a man of good morals, who I can and do trust with every part of myself. He has picked me up out of an 8-year period of depression, loneliness, and isolation. He loves me for who I am, as a person, and treats me with respect and admiration. He supports me in my faith, and goes to church with me. He loves and knows how to interact with children. He is generous to and accepting of everyone. In many, many ways, he is the most Christlike man I have ever known.

But he is not LDS, and does not desire to become LDS. I'm not foolish enough to pin eternal hope on a decision he may never make.

I just don't know how to wait anymore.

I ache. Now that I finally have hope again for love and family, those eternally important things loom large in my heart and mind. I do love him. And I don't want our marriage to be just for now. The church and my own family are coming back into my life more strongly now. I want so much for him to be a part of both.

I have prayed, and do pray for guidance, but I'm afraid that my long hurt and strong feelings are providing a static interference that I can't penetrate. My prayer is confused.

My parents know, and have given their sympathy and counsel. I'm reluctant to talk to a bishop, because what will he say, what can he say, except to belabor again and again the importance of a temple marriage?

Part of me is almost willing to accept that this experience is just a stepping-stone meant to heal a hurt heart, and that I should break off the engagement and pursue higher things, but another part of me cringes at the thought, and thinks how unfair that is to the man who loves me! How could I just use him like that and then move on? Is that what is expected of me?

What do I do?

I feel like I am reading about myself from nearly eight years ago.

I can tell you what I did. I talked to him about my apprehensions, and how I hadn't prayed about it because I was afraid of the answer. Then he told me to pray about it, and that it would be okay. So I did, and I was a mess during that prayer, but then for the first time a feeling of calm swept over me.

So, I married him. My nonmember husband and I are still married, though we did go through a two year separation. I am ever grateful for him.

If you would like more details feel free to message me. I would be glad to share them with you.

[KayaLove00]

how long have you known him

[Runesong]

I've known him for just over a year and a half now.

I want to say thanks to everyone who has responded. I find there are few problems, no matter how large or small, that a variety of perspectives won't at least help a little with.

[Islander]

Much has been said already in regards to the subject. I just wanted to point to the reality of the situation.

1. You WILL NOT have a temple wedding for time and eternity.

2. You WILL NOT have a worthy priesthood holder in your home to bless and to protect your family.

3. You WILL NOT have a companion to attend the temple to worship and serve the Lord as He desires.

4. You WILL NOT have any certainty of a covenant family in this life and the life to come as the Lord desires.

5. You WILL NOT have someone how shares and cherishes the Gospel, the values and the bright hope of eternity.

I would consider seriously discussing the issue privately with the sisters that have replied to you. They will tell you of the pain and suffering they had endure after the infatuation and the hormonally driven honey moon wears off and the reality of life and family sets in. I have worked in the HP group for 8 years with the single (divorced) and part member families since my conversion. I can not begin to tell you of the pain and regret I have heard from them because of decision such as the one you are contemplating.

I hope you would give this the true consideration it requires. Love is not what you feel right now. Love is what you DO for each other throughout a lifetime of challenges, difficulties and shared joyous experiences within a family.

[MarginOfError]

Regarding the original question, I refer you to Elder Oak's talk in the May 2005 CES broadcast. He talked about dating, courtship, and marriage. So,

dating non-lds...okay

courting non-lds...dangerous

marrying non-lds...be prepared for your spouse to never be lds.

[MichaelPAGuy]

All that really matters is that he loves you and you love him. I say if you love each other and make each othert happy then go for it.

[NeuroTypical]

Overlooking fundamental items of incompatibility because you figure you love each other, is a recipe for disaster. When thinking about lifelong commitments, love is not enough.

LM

(10+ yrs of marriage and counting)

Edited June 15, 2008 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[prisonchaplain]

Regarding the original question, I refer you to Elder Oak's talk in the May 2005 CES broadcast. He talked about dating, courtship, and marriage. So,

dating non-lds...okay

I hate to 2nd guess Elder Oaks, but as an outsider, I've gotta ask why this is okay? Why date someone who is not an eligible marriage partner? Even though it's not courting, is not nearly all dating done with the question "Might this be the one?"

I will teach my girls that they ought not to date non-Christians, period. Of course I will love them, and be a father to them, even if they make poor choices. But, my counsel to them will be not to date anyone whom they would disqualify for marriage.

[beefche]

I, too, am a little confused on that statement from Elder Oaks. Can you provide a link to it, MarginOfError? According to Elder Oaks in his Hanging Out article (Ensign, June 2006), he stated to date, then from those dates chose someone to court, then marriage.

I wholeheartedly agree with PC. You will marry whom you date. If you choose to date/marry a non-member or non-believer, then you must make a conscious decision to give up certain things. And I would caution anyone going into a marriage thinking, "Someday he/she will be a member" that you are being completely unfair to your potential spouse. One cannot change anyone but oneself. To try to do so is unfair and against God's principles.

[Islander]

I think the issue here is the definition od "date" which is perhaps used in the most lose and casual sense as it should be. A date is actually an "appointment" or one on one time. Nothing else. You could date anybody as to allow both parties to explore and ask questions about each other. In fact, it may be an opportunity to share how important God and our relationship with the Savior is for us.

A young woman in our ward had a friend in HS that was obviously interested in her. He came to church with her family for months until he bore his testimony in church on his own before he was baptized. He continued attending, graduated from HS, received a scholarship to attend U of Nebraska and spent a year there. He received his mission call and went to Mongolia where he literally wrote history by converting a local tribal elder. You can guess the rest. From being imprisoned, stoned and the like. He will be home for Christmas. I think hed proved to be a good prospect but they are not married yet. It took some time for him to prove as a convert that the relationship has a future because of his actions.

So, dating allows for further exploration but for the believer no confusion should exist that they forsake the covenant based on little more than infatuation if they move forward and marry a non-member, as in our case. It is not love that drives this incipient relationships. Love takes time, energy, passion, devotion, sacrifice, endurance, forgiveness and a whole lot more that does not exist during courtship.