Is grace enough?

[Guest tomk]

"being with Christ in Paradise" can mean different things, based on the context.

One thing is inescapable. Becoming LIKE Christ is a process. It begins here in mortality, and continues in the eternities (for the penitent).

The man on the cross was not exempt from this process. Neither are children who die before the age of accountability. Neither is the heathen. All must submit to the process of BECOMING. And that happens line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little. Our circumstances to not excuse or exclude us from this process.

[skalenfehl]

True. I'm sure the thief went through his process as did Alvin Smith as will everyone else.

[Jenamarie]

Jesus gave his life that we should not have to lose ours. Jesus forgave us of all of our sins and said all we need to do is believe in Him, ask for His forgiveness and the Kingdom of God is ours. It's simple.

All this earthly stuff is not important, and takes away from the true meaning of a relationship with our Heavenly Father. HE is what is important. Not following a man made lifestyle. - not any of this. This all just clouds and blurrs the true purpose and takes away from something very special that has graciously been given to us. We are so loved, and so treasured, and so forgiven by God - we are His children - and none of this is important. Clouding this beautiful gift we have been given with analytical gibberish only tarnishes our ability to accept the purity of gift IMO.

I agree that when we lose focus on the Father, we lose focus on the thing that is most important in this life, and that is our relationship with Him.

However, I believe that what we do here on earth is very important. For the past 6 months I've been going through a lot of soul searching as to wheather I am LDS by birth, or LDS by *choice*. I've looked into other Christian doctrines, and while the "once saved always saved" doctrine has it's appeal, to me it makes God seem rather two dimentional. From what I've learned of other churches, they believe God created us in our mother's wombs, and all we have to do in this life is come unto Christ and be saved. If we fail at that one thing then we're damned to Hell. Period. But God knows all things, so surely He must know that not all of His children will have a fair shot at making that choice. There are middle eastern countries where Christianity is *outlawed* under punnishment of death! How are these children supposed to learn of Christ? Is that fair? Are they expected to make a greater sacrifice than those of us who live in Christian countries, to follow the Lord? To watch their entire families be killed by their government?

And why would Christ give commandments if He didn't expect us to obey them? Were they merely advice? If it's non-Christians living clean lives that ends up making the world a better place, and "born-again Christians" who are making life miserable for everyone, does that glorify God? (not saying this is happening on a large scale, but I have met many wonderful athiests and many far-from-nice "Christians")

And why did God create mankind? That's one question I haven't found a satisfying answer for in any other church besides LDS. Was it so he could have millions of underlings worshiping Him? If He loved us, would He not want more for us than that? Would He not want to raise us up and help us experience the joy that He feels? And why would He create mankind knowing that the vast majority of them would end up in Hell simply for not choosing him? The LDS belief that only those who *knowingly* reject Christ will end up in Hell makes Heavenly Father seem much more just, and loving, and pure. Those who don't repent of their sins won't recieve as high a glory in Heaven, and still may not be in God's presense, but the "damnation" of being cut off from Eternal Progression seems much more just than being sent to burn in brimstone because of one mistake you made in an otherwise honorable life.

My seminary teacher used an awesome diagram to explain Grace to us. She drew a pit that represented our fallen state, with a rope hanging from the top that represented the Atonement. Some of us will grab onto the rope, decide that climbing out of the pit is too hard, and let go. Some of us will grab onto the rope, and stay right there at whatever point on the rope we grabbed on to. And some of us will grab onto the rope and start climbing. We'll fall sometimes, but through repentence His Divine Forgiveness will lift us back onto the rope, to the same point we were at when we fell, and we'll be allowed to continue our assent. And because the pit is far too deep for us to climb out of on our own, Our Savior is standing at the top, pulling the rope towards Him, so that we are able to accomplish more than we could have ever hoped to accomplish on our own, and so we'll progress much further than those who let go, and be stronger Spiritually, and have a closer relationship with Him, from working with Him to draw ourselves to Him, than those who merely hang on and wait for Christ to pull them to the top. Grace is offered to all, but not everyone gets the same results from it. God is watching what we do with His Gift.

[HizWife625]

John 1:14

[ The Word Becomes Flesh ] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth

John 1:17

For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Acts 4:33

And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

Peter Defends God’s Grace

1 Now the apostles and brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. 2 And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those of the circumcision contended with him, 3 saying, “You went in to uncircumcised men and ate with them!”

4 But Peter explained it to them in order from the beginning, saying: 5 “I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a vision, an object descending like a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came to me. 6 When I observed it intently and considered, I saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 7 And I heard a voice saying to me, ‘Rise, Peter; kill and eat.’ 8 But I said, ‘Not so, Lord! For nothing common or unclean has at any time entered my mouth.’ 9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, ‘What God has cleansed you must not call common.’ 10 Now this was done three times, and all were drawn up again into heaven. 11 At that very moment, three men stood before the house where I was, having been sent to me from Caesarea. 12 Then the Spirit told me to go with them, doubting nothing. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered the man’s house. 13 And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, ‘Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, 14 who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.’ 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?”

18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

[HizWife625]

Acts 11:23

When he came and had seen the grace of God, he was glad, and encouraged them all that with purpose of heart they should continue with the Lord

Acts 15:11

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

Acts 18:27

And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace;

Acts 20:24

But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.

Romans 3:24

being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Romans 4:4

Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt

Romans 4:16

Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

Romans 5:2

through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

,

[Guest tomk]

True. I'm sure the thief went through his process as did Alvin Smith as will everyone else.

If it were possible to short-circuit this process, Satan's plan would have worked.

It is by our exercising our agency -- proactively choosing good and eschewing evil, combined with God's grace -- that is what causes us to grow spiritually and become like God.

That is why Jesus telling the man "Today thou shalt be with me in Paradise" was not the waving of a magic wand and proclaiming him "saved and exalted" right then and there. The man would need time to repent and enter into the process of sanctification, by living the gospel for a period of time.

[HizWife625]

Romans 5:15

But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

Romans 5:17

For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ

Romans 5:20

Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

Romans 5:21

so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:14

For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

[Jenamarie]

HizWife, we *are* aware of what's contained in the Bible. No need for yelling.

[HizWife625]

Romans 11:6

And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

2 Corinthians 12:9

And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Galatians 1:6

[ Only One Gospel ] I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,

Galatians 2:21

I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

Galatians 5:4

You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Ephesians 1:7

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Ephesians 2:5

even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Ephesians 2:8

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

[Guest tomk]

Grace = God enabling us to obey out of love for Him.

Grace does not equal "poof" you are magically saved.

[Maureen]

Traveler said:

...The only reason to say or talk about the grace of G-d and make a point of it - is because somewhere somehow it is not enough....

Oh my, I totally disagree. We talk about the grace of God because it's the "good news". When there's good news, people want to talk about it. We sing hymns and carols as a way of talking about it. We go to bible studies and message boards because it's the good news that we all want to talk about. It's a wonderful and good thing and that is why we talk about it.

[HizWife625]

Hebrews 13:9

Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.

James 4:6

But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “ God resists the proud,But gives grace to the humble.”

1 Peter 1:10

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you,

1 Peter 5:10

But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.

Jude 1:4

For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Guest tomk]

Romans 11:6

And if by [GOD'S POWER TO ASSIST US], then it is no longer of [OUR] works [ALONE]; otherwise [GOD'S POWER TO ASSIST US] is no longer [GOD'S POWER TO ASSIST US]. But if it is of [OUR] works, it is no longer [GOD'S POWER TO ASSIST US]; otherwise [OUR] work is no longer work.

2 Corinthians 12:9

And He said to me, “My [POWER TO ASSIST YOU] is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Galatians 2:21

I do not set aside the [GOD'S POWER TO ASSIST US]; for if righteousness comes through the law [WITHOUT GOD'S POWER], then Christ died in vain.”

Galatians 5:4

You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Ephesians 1:7

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His [GOD'S POWER TO ASSIST US]

Ephesians 2:5

even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by [GOD'S POWER TO ASSIST US] you have been saved),

Ephesians 2:8

For by [GOD'S POWER TO ASSIST US] you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

[HizWife625]

Galatians 2:21

I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

[Guest tomk]

Galatians 2:21

I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

Said another way:

I need the grace of God. Righteousness comes through Christ, not the law. Christ extends to me the power to obey the law.

[skalenfehl]

Understanding what we can of the Atonement and the Resurrection of Christ helps us to obtain a knowledge of Him and of His mission. Any increase in our understanding of His atoning sacrifice draws us closer to Him. Literally, the Atonement means to be “at one” with Him. The nature of the Atonement and its effects is so infinite, so unfathomable, and so profound that it lies beyond the knowledge and comprehension of mortal man. I am profoundly grateful for the principle of saving grace. Many people think they need only confess that Jesus is the Christ and then they are saved by grace alone. We cannot be saved by grace alone, “for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

Click:

2 Nephi 25

Alma 34

Alma 42

Moroni 10

Some years ago, President Gordon B. Hinckley told “something of a parable” about “a one room school house in the mountains of Virginia where the boys were so rough no teacher had been able to handle them.

“Then one day an inexperienced young teacher applied. He was told that every teacher had received an awful beating, but the teacher accepted the risk. The first day of school the teacher asked the boys to establish their own rules and the penalty for breaking the rules. The class came up with 10 rules, which were written on the blackboard. Then the teacher asked, ‘What shall we do with one who breaks the rules?’

“ ‘Beat him across the back ten times without his coat on,’ came the response.

“A day or so later, … the lunch of a big student, named Tom, was stolen. ‘The thief was located—a little hungry fellow, about ten years old.’

“As Little Jim came up to take his licking, he pleaded to keep his coat on. ‘Take your coat off,’ the teacher said. ‘You helped make the rules!’

“The boy took off the coat. He had no shirt and revealed a bony little crippled body. As the teacher hesitated with the rod, Big Tom jumped to his feet and volunteered to take the boy’s licking.

“ ‘Very well, there is a certain law that one can become a substitute for another. Are you all agreed?’ the teacher asked.

“After five strokes across Tom’s back, the rod broke. The class was sobbing. ‘Little Jim had reached up and caught Tom with both arms around his neck. “Tom, I’m sorry that I stole your lunch, but I was awful hungry. Tom, I will love you till I die for taking my licking for me! Yes, I will love you forever!” ’ ”

President Hinckley then quoted Isaiah:

“Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows. …

“… He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”

The Atonement and the Resurrection accomplish many things. The Atonement cleanses us of sin on condition of our repentance. Repentance is the condition on which mercy is extended. After all we can do to pay to the uttermost farthing and make right our wrongs, the Savior’s grace is activated in our lives through the Atonement, which purifies us and can perfect us. Christ’s Resurrection overcame death and gave us the assurance of life after death. Said He: “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.” The Resurrection is unconditional and applies to all who have ever lived and ever will live. It is a free gift.

President Joseph Fielding Smith has summarized the relationship between grace and works as follows:

“So Paul taught these people—who thought that they could be saved by some power that was within them, or by observing the law of Moses—he pointed out to them the fact that if it were not for the mission of Jesus Christ, if it were not for this great atoning sacrifice, they could not be redeemed. And therefore it was by the grace of God that they are saved, not by any work on their part, for they were absolutely helpless. Paul was absolutely right.

“And on the other hand, James taught just as the Lord taught, just as Paul had taught in other scripture, that it is our duty, of necessity, to labor, to strive in diligence, and faith, keeping the commandments of the Lord, if we would obtain that inheritance which is promised to the faithful (Faith without works is dead).

“So it is easy to understand that we must accept the mission of Jesus Christ. We must believe that it is through his grace that we are saved, that he performed for us that labor which we were unable to perform for ourselves, and did for us those things which were essential to our salvation, which were beyond our power; and also that we are under the commandment and the necessity of performing the labors that are required of us as set forth in the commandments known as the gospel of Jesus Christ.” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954–56, 2:310–11.)

Thus, we can with Paul fervently exclaim that “the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Rom. 6:23). We should continue to stress the importance of obedience, of repentance, of faith, and strive with all our hearts to demonstrate good works in our lives. But we should never lose sight of the great overriding fact of the grace of God and the wholly central part it plays in our atonement and salvation.

Moroni, in the closing words of the Book of Mormon, teaches the relationship between the grace of Christ and the need for our righteous efforts. Note how he keeps distinctly clear what it is that perfects us, and yet what must happen in our lives to bring that about.

[Hemidakota]

I agree that when we lose focus on the Father, we lose focus on the thing that is most important in this life, and that is our relationship with Him.

However, I believe that what we do here on earth is very important. For the past 6 months I've been going through a lot of soul searching as to wheather I am LDS by birth, or LDS by *choice*. I've looked into other Christian doctrines, and while the "once saved always saved" doctrine has it's appeal, to me it makes God seem rather two dimentional. From what I've learned of other churches, they believe God created us in our mother's wombs, and all we have to do in this life is come unto Christ and be saved. If we fail at that one thing then we're damned to Hell. Period. But God knows all things, so surely He must know that not all of His children will have a fair shot at making that choice. There are middle eastern countries where Christianity is *outlawed* under punnishment of death! How are these children supposed to learn of Christ? Is that fair? Are they expected to make a greater sacrifice than those of us who live in Christian countries, to follow the Lord? To watch their entire families be killed by their government?

And why would Christ give commandments if He didn't expect us to obey them? Were they merely advice? If it's non-Christians living clean lives that ends up making the world a better place, and "born-again Christians" who are making life miserable for everyone, does that glorify God? (not saying this is happening on a large scale, but I have met many wonderful athiests and many far-from-nice "Christians")

And why did God create mankind? That's one question I haven't found a satisfying answer for in any other church besides LDS. Was it so he could have millions of underlings worshiping Him? If He loved us, would He not want more for us than that? Would He not want to raise us up and help us experience the joy that He feels? And why would He create mankind knowing that the vast majority of them would end up in Hell simply for not choosing him? The LDS belief that only those who *knowingly* reject Christ will end up in Hell makes Heavenly Father seem much more just, and loving, and pure. Those who don't repent of their sins won't recieve as high a glory in Heaven, and still may not be in God's presense, but the "damnation" of being cut off from Eternal Progression seems much more just than being sent to burn in brimstone because of one mistake you made in an otherwise honorable life.

My seminary teacher used an awesome diagram to explain Grace to us. She drew a pit that represented our fallen state, with a rope hanging from the top that represented the Atonement. Some of us will grab onto the rope, decide that climbing out of the pit is too hard, and let go. Some of us will grab onto the rope, and stay right there at whatever point on the rope we grabbed on to. And some of us will grab onto the rope and start climbing. We'll fall sometimes, but through repentence His Divine Forgiveness will lift us back onto the rope, to the same point we were at when we fell, and we'll be allowed to continue our assent. And because the pit is far too deep for us to climb out of on our own, Our Savior is standing at the top, pulling the rope towards Him, so that we are able to accomplish more than we could have ever hoped to accomplish on our own, and so we'll progress much further than those who let go, and be stronger Spiritually, and have a closer relationship with Him, from working with Him to draw ourselves to Him, than those who merely hang on and wait for Christ to pull them to the top. Grace is offered to all, but not everyone gets the same results from it. God is watching what we do with His Gift.

Thanks for being personal. Threads like this bring joy in my soul as we are a bonded family, not only on earth but eternality.

[Hemidakota]

Understanding what we can of the Atonement and the

“Then one day an inexperienced young teacher applied. He was told that every teacher had received an awful beating, but the teacher accepted the risk. The first day of school the teacher asked the boys to establish their own rules and the penalty for breaking the rules. The class came up with 10 rules, which were written on the blackboard. Then the teacher asked, ‘What shall we do with one who breaks the rules?’

“ ‘Beat him across the back ten times without his coat on,’ came the response.

“A day or so later, … the lunch of a big student, named Tom, was stolen. ‘The thief was located—a little hungry fellow, about ten years old.’

“As Little Jim came up to take his licking, he pleaded to keep his coat on. ‘Take your coat off,’ the teacher said. ‘You helped make the rules!’

“The boy took off the coat. He had no shirt and revealed a bony little crippled body. As the teacher hesitated with the rod, Big Tom jumped to his feet and volunteered to take the boy’s licking.

“ ‘Very well, there is a certain law that one can become a substitute for another. Are you all agreed?’ the teacher asked.

“After five strokes across Tom’s back, the rod broke. The class was sobbing. ‘Little Jim had reached up and caught Tom with both arms around his neck. “Tom, I’m sorry that I stole your lunch, but I was awful hungry. Tom, I will love you till I die for taking my licking for me! Yes, I will love you forever!” ’ ”

]

Have you seen a grown Marines cry? After telling this same story, even I had tears in my eye...I would gladly fill in for Little Jim.

[VisionOfLehi]

On the thief on the cross:

Lexicon Results for paradeisos (Strong's 3857)

Greek for 3857

Pronunciation Guide paradeisos {par-ad'-i-sos}

Outline of Biblical Usage

1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters

2) a garden, pleasure ground

a) grove, park

3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise

4) the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world

5) heaven

[Guest User-Removed]

A view of "Grace" from an Apostle of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ:

I've excepted sections of a devotional given at the Y by the late Bruce R. McConkie...

This second heresy--and it is the delusion and mania that prevails to this day in the great evangelical body of Protestantism--is the doctrine that we are justified by faith alone, without the works of the law. It is the doctrine that we are saved by grace alone, without works. It is the doctrine that we may be born again simply by confessing the Lord Jesus with our lips while we continue to live in our sins.

We have all listened to sermons by the great revivalists and self-appointed prophets of the various radio and television ministries. Whatever the subjects of their sermons may be, they always end with an invitation and a plea for people to come forward and confess the Lord Jesus and receive the cleansing power of his blood.

Television broadcasts of these sermons always show arenas or coliseums or stadiums filled with people, scores and hundreds and thousands of whom go forward to make their confessions, to become born-again Christians, to be saved with all they suppose this includes.

While driving along a highway in my car, I was listening to the radio sermon of one of these evangelists who was preaching of salvation by grace alone. He said all anyone had to do to be saved was to believe in Christ and perform an affirmative act of confession.

Among other things he said: “If you are traveling in a car, simply reach forth your hand and touch your car radio, thus making contact with me, and then say, 'Lord Jesus, I believe,' and you will be saved.”

Unfortunately, I did not accept his generous invitation to gain instant salvation; and so I suppose my opportunity is lost forever!

Here is an account of how Martin Luther himself came to believe the doctrine of justification by faith alone; it is an ideal illustration of why this doctrine has such wide appeal.

A friendly biographer tells us: Luther “was much concerned about his personal salvation and given to gloomy reflections over his sinful condition,” so much so that “he fell dangerously ill, and was seized with a fit of despair.” Also:

No one surpassed him in prayer, fasting, night watches, self-mortification. He was . . . a model of sanctity. But . . . he found no peace and rest in all his pious exercises. . . . He saw sin everywhere. . . . He could not trust in God as a reconciled Father, as a God of love and mercy, but trembled before him, as a God of wrath, as a consuming fire. . . . It was sin as an all-pervading power and vitiating principle, sin as a corruption of nature, sin as an alienation from God and hostility to God that weighed on his mind like an incubus and brought him to the brink of despair.

While in this state, he gained

the conviction that the sinner is justified by faith alone, without the works of the law. . . . This experience acted like a new revelation on Luther. It shed light upon the whole Bible and made it to him a book of life and comfort. He felt relieved of the terrible load of guilt by an act of free grace. He was led out of the dark prison house of self-inflicted penance into the daylight and fresh air of God's redeeming love. Justification broke the fetters of legalistic slavery, and filled him with the joy and peace of the state of adoption; it opened to him the very gates of heaven. [Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, vol. 7, pp. 111, 116–17, 122–24]

What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace? - Bruce R. McConkie

[Hemidakota]

Regarding the thief on the cross, here's my take. He was a thief. As far as we know the only law that he broke was stealing. He was crucified by the Romans for breaking Roman law. He also broke the spiritual law given to the children of Israel--Thou shalt not steal. He paid his price to man. His crucifixion satisfied Caesar's law. The real issue, however, is satisfying God's law for mercy cannot rob justice. In this case, as Christ was about to fulfill all righteousness by his infinite sacrifice, His grace would be sufficient to save the thief, who testified that Christ had done no wrong and didn't deserve to be crucified by the Romans and asked to be saved in His kingdom. He had faith and was penitent (first two articles of our faith).

Christ told him that "today" the thief would be with Christ in Paradise. I can only speculate one of two things. The thief, after dying on the cross, went to Spirit Prison and received the fullness gospel there and was granted access to Paradise. The other, is that, while on the cross, his penance was complete and through Christ's atonement and direct promise went straightaway into Paradise.

Whether or not he was "with Christ" in Paradise by His side, I don't know. We are all on earth, though not in each other's immediate company so the thief could easily have been in Paradise with Christ after He preached to everyone in Prison, even those who had perished in the flood of Noah as mentioned in 2 Peter.

We do know that Christ had the power to forgive, even on the cross prior to death. However, this is not advocating that the thief is now with the Savior, standing in the Celestial Kingdom. He is in Paradise.

Much work still needs to be done for all humanity from Adam to the very end of earth's existence. [Wicked generation prior to Noah's flood] We can still find some remains in the North America.

[lostnfound]

LNF.......

Can we stop the will of the Father?

That just "popped" in my head..........Does Christ work according to our will or His?

Christ works according to His will!

[lostnfound]

I've often thought the same myself.

That is exactly the point. He had no time to be disobedient either! But those of us who do have time have the choice too - do we obey and do the things Jesus asks of us or do we choose not to do them and still believe we have a right to salvation?

Also, we have absolutely no idea what action the thief then took once he was in Paradise. Remember that was not the final location. Judgement is yet to come for him and we cannot presume that he will reach Celestial glory. We do not know.

He didn't. There's an 'if' in that prophecy and the 'if' was not fulfilled, therefore the rest of it wasn't. A bit like saying 'If you take that bus you'll get to the chapel on time' and the person let's the bus go by and arrives late for Sacrament Meeting. The bus got there on time but the person is late. Is it the fault of the bus company?

"It was appointed a time for man to die once and then face judgement" No second chances after death..sorry.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace? - Bruce R. McConkie

This is one of my favorite devotionals ever!!:)

[Guest User-Removed]

But here is the good news!!!!

Jesus died for your sins and for mine and the only thing we have to do is recieve this gift.

Have i done anything to deserve it? Nope..will I continue to sin absoutly....

Under your view of Grace...Judas Iscariot this day is sipping on Pina Colada's in heaven with Peter, James and John.

Karla Harris...The triple murderess from Texas is dining at the celestial Chuck-A-Rama.

Jim Jones is living on the same street paved with gold as is Mother Teresa...

lostnfound...Grace isn't something as cheap as most traditional Christians make it out to be.

If it was, I'd have a whole dashboard full of plastic prayer jesus's from Oral Roberts.

Grace is an essential part of Salvation...as the Book of Mormon says...Grace is that you receieve after all you have done...

Let me assure you...that there is no one in need of Christ's atoning Grace than moi..NO ONE...but, I don't take the traditional Christian view of Eat, Drink and be Merry...for there's always Grace at the end of the road...